Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 304
  1. #161  
    Which chipset does the Treo Pro have?
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Qualcomm's statements about the MSM6800 specifically note it is aGPS. While you bring up various statements about the overall product line.
    How hard is it to understand that plenty of documentation states that it does support standalone?

    Just because one statement states that it's aGPS, doesn't meant that it doesn't have standalone as well. One does not preclude the other.



    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    No MSM6800 or MSM6800a out there has been shown to do stand alone
    The 700wx hasn't been shown to run WM6.1 either, but I have no doubt it can.

    Just because it's not provided currently doesn't mean it's not an option.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    So Palm's not concerned, Qualcomm has moved on and Sprint is silent.
    Palm IS concerned, which is why they wrote a FAQ specifically addressing it.

    They're engineers are also looking into the issue. If that's not concerned, then I don't know what is.

    Sprint can't do anything about it, so why should they say/do anything about it? It's out of their hands.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    So I've got no problem telling anyone with or considering the Treo 800w, if they want and need true stand alone GPS as many of us understand the term, they should not look for it in the Treo 800w.
    No one has said otherwise, in fact Mal has said that exact same thing several times to folks and gotten flamed for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The MSM7500 is superior, it has dual processors and is proven to work as stand alone GPS. Fine, you didn't say it, I did.

    I'm sure everyone who does not find dual processors to be a superior design awaits stand alone GPS in the Treo 800w .
    Ever actually use the Mogul?

    The device is so incredibly sluggish and painful to use that quite a few people switched back to a custom WM 5 ROM.

    The 700w (not wx) runs WM6 better than the Mogul does. This is with having a single processor and far less RAM.

    "Dual processors" doesn't mean squat (just like "64 bit" won't improve performance in many situations).

    Yes the Mogul has standalone GPS. But I would like to point out to you (again) that it did not have standalone when released. Hmm, does that sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I'm done, the last word is yours.
    Funny since your post is after his.
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    Which chipset does the Treo Pro have?
    MSM7201A.

    The Mogul, which also has been shown to ACTUALLY run with stand alone and aGPS (as we understand those terms) uses the MSM7500.
  4. #164  
    I will be testing the Pro vs. The 800 in real life GPS situation. I could careless about schematic and part numbers. I want results I can see.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  5. #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    How hard is it to understand that plenty of documentation states that it does support standalone?

    Just because one statement states that it's aGPS, doesn't meant that it doesn't have standalone as well. One does not preclude the other.
    I see general documentation about the gpsOne product line showing stand alone is possible, but MSM6800 specific documentation often makes no mention of stand alone. Some does, but the specific product page mentions aGPS. If it did stand alone I think it would be mentioned in that overview and actually shown in application. We have not seen a single device with it, not even ours as some of us see the term "stand alone GPS".



    The 700wx hasn't been shown to run WM6.1 either, but I have no doubt it can.

    Just because it's not provided currently doesn't mean it's not an option.
    In my opinion, the 700wx will have WM6.1 way before you see a Treo 800w with the MSM6800A as it currently sits in the device given a firmware update to give the device stand alone GPS capability.


    Palm IS concerned, which is why they wrote a FAQ specifically addressing it.

    They're engineers are also looking into the issue. If that's not concerned, then I don't know what is.

    Sprint can't do anything about it, so why should they say/do anything about it? It's out of their hands.
    Palm provided what I feel was simply a cover document and noted a definition for stand alone GPS that I don't agree with and neither do many who need stand alone GPS. They've made no commitment to make the device what me and some others consider stand alone GPS, they've instead provided a document saying the device in their view already has it. Palm looked into the issue and provided their response. No I don't see Sprint doing anything about it. Palm made no commitment to resolve the issue, Sprint won't and the MSM6800A is way too far out of Qualcomm's product line for us to consider them doing it. Qualcomm makes more getting sales of their newer products.


    No one has said otherwise, in fact Mal has said that exact same thing several times to folks and gotten flamed for it.
    Well I'm also saying there is no reason to anticipate a firmware update that will give the device stand alone GPS capability. You don't include where I said:
    It's not there, nobody has said they'll put it there and plenty of evidence shows it won't ever be there. Just as all other devices before the Treo 800w with the MSM6800 or MSM6800a.
    My complete statement represents my opinion on the matter, not part.

    Ever actually use the Mogul?

    The device is so incredibly sluggish and painful to use that quite a few people switched back to a custom WM 5 ROM.

    The 700w (not wx) runs WM6 better than the Mogul does. This is with having a single processor and far less RAM.

    "Dual processors" doesn't mean squat (just like "64 bit" won't improve performance in many situations).
    I've made the devices I've used clear, Treos, never Mogul. However, Dual processors and even 64-bit ARE a superior design. Functionally depending on the software using them the performance results may differ. Still dual processors and 64-bit are superior design.

    Yes the Mogul has standalone GPS. But I would like to point out to you (again) that it did not have standalone when released. Hmm, does that sound familiar?
    I don't see this as "similar" to the Mogul, because the Mogul has the MSM7500, which is a later model than the MSM6800A.

    Funny since your post is after his.
    Well if Malatesta wants to respond, mine won't be the last in the exchange and I've committed to not continuing with him on the matter. That was the point of my statement, I won't respond more with him over it, it's pretty well exhausted.

    Make what you want of my words, the MSM6800A in the Treo 800w is not doing stand alone GPS as many of us see it and I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an update. I personally feel more than a firmware update may be needed.

    You dismiss that no other product with the MSM6800A (or MSM6800) has stand alone GPS, fine, but I feel it shows a trend that the Treo 800w will be a part of, no stand alone GPS as I and many others see the term.

    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I will be testing the Pro vs. The 800 in real life GPS situation. I could careless about schematic and part numbers. I want results I can see.
    EXACTLY!!!
  6. #166  
    Ebag333, I was wondering what you thought about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Not to mention, if it was stand alone it's likely so weak it would not be of true benefit.
    Keep in mind, even if the firmware issue is as you feel it may be despite any personal disagreement I may have, there's still an issue of it being strong enough for most practical use. Many want to replace their other GPS devices with the Treo 800w. What do you think? There is prior mention that if the chip has stand alone GPS it's weak.

    In that thread Malatesta mentioned (this was well before the Treo 800w's release):
    The msm-6800 is an odd choice as I would have predicted the much, much newer msm-7501, which if I remember also works-around the alleged copyright infringement of Broadcom.
    I'm not saying what Malatesta meant by that, not trying to imply anything either.

    I just want to hear your thoughts on the matter Ebag333, if you don't mind.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    I will be testing the Pro vs. The 800 in real life GPS situation. I could careless about schematic and part numbers. I want results I can see.
    TBH, I'm not sure the purpose of this. It's not like we don't already know the results.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I see general documentation about the gpsOne product line showing stand alone is possible, but MSM6800 specific documentation often makes no mention of stand alone.
    That's not true.

    Mal has pointed out examples of MSM6800 specific documentation stating what it supports.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    In my opinion, the 700wx will have WM6.1 way before you see a Treo 800w with the MSM6800A as it currently sits in the device given a firmware update to give the device stand alone GPS capability.
    What bearing does that have on this discussion, especially since the 700wx already has 6.1 running on it? (Though not released yet to the general public.)



    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Well I'm also saying there is no reason to anticipate a firmware update that will give the device stand alone GPS capability. You don't include where I said:

    My complete statement represents my opinion on the matter, not part.
    I didn't miss that. But your statements have absolutely no basis in fact, and is pure conjecture.

    There is no reason not to expect an update that will give the device stand alone GPS capability.

    In fact, there is actually more evidence leaning towards that than not. (Reports of Palm engineers working on the problem, the fact that the chipset actually supports it, etc.)


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I've made the devices I've used clear, Treos, never Mogul. However, Dual processors and even 64-bit ARE a superior design. Functionally depending on the software using them the performance results may differ. Still dual processors and 64-bit are superior design.
    Depending on the application dual processors and 64 bit can slow down the applications.

    A poorly designed dual processor (which the MSM7500 is) will not outperform a well designed single processor. Which again is shown by the performance of the 700 and 800.



    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Make what you want of my words, the MSM6800A in the Treo 800w is not doing stand alone GPS as many of us see it and I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an update. I personally feel more than a firmware update may be needed.
    You may feel that more than firmware is needed, but you also persistently believe that the MSM6800A chipset isn't capable of standalone GPS when Qualcomm specifically states that it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    You dismiss that no other product with the MSM6800A (or MSM6800) has stand alone GPS, fine, but I feel it shows a trend that the Treo 800w will be a part of, no stand alone GPS as I and many others see the term.
    You can make a trend out of three devices, one of which isn't really designed for GPS usage (air card), and one which is designed completely around Sprint's network and not really geared for off network use (Instinct)?


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Many want to replace their other GPS devices with the Treo 800w. What do you think?
    I purchased the 800w intending to do the same. Does it suck that I either have to use my GPS puck or do a work around to have GPS off network? Of course. Is it the end of the world? Not by a long shot.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    There is prior mention that if the chip has stand alone GPS it's weak.[/URL]
    There's no evidence of that. That's pure guesswork on Kocoman's part.


    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    In that thread Malatesta mentioned (this was well before the Treo 800w's release):

    I'm not saying what Malatesta meant by that, not trying to imply anything either.
    When Mal stated that I don't think he really knew how long the 800w was in the works.

    I have strong suspicions that the 800w was sat on for quite some time. I personally believe that Verizon intended to pick it up to fill in their (somewhat missing) WM 6.0 slot, and bailed in favor of the 6.0 upgrade to the 700wx.

    This is supported by the delay in release due to moving to 6.1 (something Sprint would have wanted), and the fact that a huge patch for bluetooth came out shortly after release. (Not to mention the power/charging update.)

    If the 800w was actually pretty much ready to go say 6-12 months prior to it's actual release (pure guesswork on my part, but that's the typical time frame for a big patch like the bluetooth update), then it makes more sense that the MSM6800A chipset would have been chosen over the MSM7501. (As the MSM7501 may have been too new at a time and not an option due to supply, cost, drivers, or a myriad of other factors).

    We know that the 800w was sat on for quite a while. What we don't know is for how long.
  8. #168  
    Well Ebag333, we are just at disagree, wait and see mode.

    But I will toss you a freebie, which I'm surprised you didn't notice .
    While I don't find the MSM7500 GPS issue to be comparable, if you see the old MSM7500 overview spec sheet, you'll notice it's similar to the MSM6800 .

    But I have my doubts things will go as neatly with the Treo 800w. I doubt it will be easily updated via firmware and I suspect even if that were done, that there would be anger that the GPS is weak when running stand alone. But we'll see.

    The response that I found to be suspect from Palm, makes me very suspicious.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The response that I found to be suspect from Palm, makes me very suspicious.
    This pretty much sums it up for me. If such a miracle patch was coming, why would Palm make a CYA article (17267) instead of just saying that a patch is coming to resolve the issue? If a patch came out, then they'd have to go back and start telling people that they don't really have to have their phones on to use GPS. Doesn't make sense IMO.

    And in regards to the specs Qualcomm listed: At the end of day, the reality is devices with with MSM6800 have not yet been shown to do standalone GPS like Darnell has said a few times. Why should we now expect such a thing to happen with the 800w now that we're in the sinking ship named Hope? Why should we expect it to happen now that we have spent our money on it and are wishfully thinking it's going to happen? (Well I haven't spent money on one, but you get my point)

    And whoever thinks dual processors and/or 64-bit processors aren't superior to single processors and/or 32-bit processors just doesn't make sense lol. Sure there may not always be a huge performance difference, but that's usually due to an application not taking full advantage of the hardware, not because. The pure fact is, a dual core system/64 bit processor has more potential to perform better. Whether or not it does is dependent on the software, but if I told you to take out your computer's dual core processor and put in a Pentium IV you'd probably look at me like I'm crazy.
  10. #170  
    Darnell,

    Not to be condescending here, but you are aware of how aGPS works, correct? And that it is more complicated than standalone GPS? That aGPS systems imply standalone functionality (but are sometimes limited by hardware i.e. plexed antennas, software).

    And the reason Qualcomm speaks so much of GPSOne and aGPS is because
    1. aGPS requires a lot of (expensive R&D) patented technology
    2. They are in the business of making money and so are the carriers (subscription models for LBS)

    My Treo 800w sees 7,8, 9 satellites 11,000 miles up in the sky, just like a "standalone" system.

    aGPS merely augments standalone by adding assistance servers which give a cheat to the system: it gives the phone information at which satellites it should try to connect too, cutting down Time to Fix from 2-3 minutes on a cold start to just 15 seconds.

    The only problem our devices have is that it relies on the servers to prime the GPS system, not that it cannot see the satellites. You seem to be operating under the (common) assumption that aGPS is less than standalone, not more. To be more clear: all aGPS systems can do standalone GPS; not all standalone GPS systems can do aGPS.

    You're reading of Qualcomm's documents shows a lot of inexperience as you yourself point out, the MSM7500 data sheets say "aGPS" all over them too, which by your definition would mean it cannot do standalone either, which we know is wrong.

    You're just flat out incorrect about how Qualcomm's technology works and what the MSM6800 (specifically the RFR6500 receiver) is capable of. That's fine: we're not engineers, we don't work for Qualcomm but I think I've demonstrated the above to be true (Ebag gets 100% what I'm stating).

    If I have a Dell computer running Win2000 and you have a Compaq running WinXP, but we both have the same Wifi Card--there is no question that they both can do the same thing. The magic comes with the drivers and whether or not they are optimized correctly (plus last I checked, hardware companies never get "drivers" right on the first shot, which is why we are always updating them).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta
    The msm-6800 is an odd choice as I would have predicted the much, much newer msm-7501, which if I remember also works-around the alleged copyright infringement of Broadcom.
    I stand by this 100%.

    The MSM6800 is quite old; the MSM6800A is quite new--I was informed that it was the first version, not the second which is why I wrote that. The reduced size of the latter means they can jam more int he device while keeping it reasonably sized and it is more power efficient.

    True, I would have thought the "01 series would make more sense (especially since Qualcomm got their **** handed to them in court), but as Ebag correctly notes, that chipset was not readily available at the time.

    Whatever Palm writes is going to be indirectly from Qualcomm as it is their technology that underlies the GPS system, not Palm's.

    For others: I'm not saying it will be fixed or to hold your breath. In fact, personally speaking from a functional perspective I don't give a damn as I don't need or use 'standalone' and prefer aGPS (which 95% of the phones in the world use).

    All I'm responding to is Darnell's misreading of Qualcomm's data sheets and technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I don't see this as "similar" to the Mogul, because the Mogul has the MSM7500, which is a later model than the MSM6800A.
    This is false.

    MSM7500 was introduced/announced by Qualcomm in July 2005; the MSM6800A was announced in May 2007.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/29/2008 at 11:24 AM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Perhaps Palm is not responding, because they feel a simultaneous GPS chip can't be turned into a stand alone one? The Sprint air card with the MSM6800A by Qualcomm was out a year before the Treo 800w that has the same and the Sprint air card has never had a patch to make it stand alone, it was never advertised as stand alone either. Perhaps Palm realizes this requires an actual change in hardware, given the MSM6800A by Qualcomm was made explicitly as a simultaneous GPS chip? Palm did not make it that way and neither did Sprint, Palm got it that way from the manufacturer, Qualcomm. And in my opinion Palm and Sprint both have used misleading statements when advertising it in their product. Despite Qualcomm making it clear the MSM6800A is simultaneous GPS by their manufactured design.

    So I don't find it likely that Palm would discover a means of changing what they had no hand in making. The MSM6800A by Qualcomm was never made to be what we'd like for it to be, it does not do true stand alone GPS according to anything I've found about the chip.

    In my opinion, I can't say I've ever seen such crafty wording by Palm before and I think I know why.

    The MSM6800A by Qualcomm is what it is, simultaneous GPS, so there's no need to argue amongst ourselves over Palm slipping the means for a patch to the public.
    That would explain a lot if the limitations prove to be correct.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante View Post
    And whoever thinks dual processors and/or 64-bit processors aren't superior to single processors and/or 32-bit processors just doesn't make sense lol. Sure there may not always be a huge performance difference, but that's usually due to an application not taking full advantage of the hardware, not because. The pure fact is, a dual core system/64 bit processor has more potential to perform better. Whether or not it does is dependent on the software, but if I told you to take out your computer's dual core processor and put in a Pentium IV you'd probably look at me like I'm crazy.
    On paper this is true, just like on paper a 300 HP engine will out perform a 140 HP engine. In reality there are more factors than that.

    To continue the example above, lets say that the car is the "hardware", with the engine as the processor. The driver is the software.

    You can put the same driver in two different vehicles that are, for all intents and purposes the same except for the engine (processor). But if the 300 HP engine is poorly tuned and not well designed (lets say half the pistons are too short, resulting in lack of full compression), the 140 HP engine will run circles around it.


    In the case of the Mogul VS Treo 700wx, we have what is on paper a 300 HP engine VS a 140 HP engine. But the 300 HP engine does not perform well due to half of the engine (one of the processors) far underperforming. The driver (software) is the same. The other hardware (RAM, chipsets, etc) are similar or less capable on the 700wx.

    But the 700wx far outperforms the Mogul.

    I've had the dubious pleasure of using both extensively. My mother used the Mogul for nearly 6 months before trading it in for a 700wx. The 700wx is night and day in terms of performance compared to the Mogul. Despite being a single processor.


    A poorly designed dual processor is a poorly designed dual processor. The fact that a dual processor could be better has no bearing on whether it actually is or not.
  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    My Treo 800w sees 7,8, 9 satellites 11,000 miles up in the sky, just like a "standalone" system.
    Yes. Like a standalone, but not standalone. Emulation of a feature that does not work in all circumstances, is not the same as having a feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    To be more clear: all aGPS systems can do standalone GPS; not all standalone GPS systems can do aGPS.
    No, the aGPS of the 800W cannot do standalone. Your statement asserts a logical error similar to saying a person who needs glasses satisfies a military requirement for "20:20 uncorrected" vision because the glasses correct. The standalone refers to the absence of assistance not the assisted acquisition of satellites. You can see the logical fallacy in your contention because what it implies is ALL aGPS is already standalone by your proof. It is a tautology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    In fact, personally speaking from a functional perspective I don't give a damn as I don't need or use 'standalone' and prefer aGPS (which 95% of the phones in the world use).
    We get that some dont "give a damn" (just as some may not need mp3 playback or the camera), but I don't get the "prefer aGPS."

    Almost everyone prefers aGPS, but the 800w is advertised as having both, because there are circumstances where users may need standalone. It is like having a radio that is advertised as AM and FM. If the AM is disabled or to fit the analogy, needs an FM signal to function as an AM receiver, a rational discussion of the problem is not going to include statements such as "I prefer FM."

    Let's not forget that sprints coverage is a tiny faction of GPS coverage.
    Last edited by aero; 09/29/2008 at 12:23 PM.
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    On paper this is true, just like on paper a 300 HP engine will out perform a 140 HP engine. In reality there are more factors than that.

    To continue the example above, lets say that the car is the "hardware", with the engine as the processor. The driver is the software.

    You can put the same driver in two different vehicles that are, for all intents and purposes the same except for the engine (processor). But if the 300 HP engine is poorly tuned and not well designed (lets say half the pistons are too short, resulting in lack of full compression), the 140 HP engine will run circles around it.


    In the case of the Mogul VS Treo 700wx, we have what is on paper a 300 HP engine VS a 140 HP engine. But the 300 HP engine does not perform well due to half of the engine (one of the processors) far underperforming. The driver (software) is the same. The other hardware (RAM, chipsets, etc) are similar or less capable on the 700wx.

    But the 700wx far outperforms the Mogul.

    I've had the dubious pleasure of using both extensively. My mother used the Mogul for nearly 6 months before trading it in for a 700wx. The 700wx is night and day in terms of performance compared to the Mogul. Despite being a single processor.


    A poorly designed dual processor is a poorly designed dual processor. The fact that a dual processor could be better has no bearing on whether it actually is or not.
    Heh...I fully agree on the Mogul vs 700wx. I went back to my 700wx from my Mogul after about 6 months of suffering with it's sluggishness.

    I guess my main point was that a well designed dual processor should perform better than even a well designed single processor. That wasn't the case with the Mogul obviously, but the Mogul would be a fine phone if HTC had optimized the hardware to work with the software. That's the main difference between the Mogul and the 700wx IMO. One is vanilla hardware with vanilla software while the other is optimized so both ends meet each other.

    And I'm not sure how much it factors into the equation, but I think the main problem with the Mogul was the RAM, not necessarily the processor.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante View Post
    And I'm not sure how much it factors into the equation, but I think the main problem with the Mogul was the RAM, not necessarily the processor.
    Getting OT a bit here but low RAM was an issue only when running multiple programs.

    On a fresh boot, no programs running, the device was still slow on simple operations (including telephony, which was the main purpose of the secondary processor).

    The device had enough memory to run it's own OS, it's just the rest of the system was under-performing. Running out of RAM while running apps was just the final kick in the nuts, lol.

    Also no video drivers didn't help.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You can see the logical fallacy in your contention because what it implies is ALL aGPS is already standalone by your proof. It is a tautology.
    That's not what Mal said.


    Let me clarify for him. (He's said I've understood two of his points already, so lets hope I go 3 for 3. )


    If a device supports aGPS, than it has the capability to do stand alone GPS.

    The fact that it has the capability does not mean that it will do it. The device may have been purposefully locked down, or there may be an incompatibility that prevents it.




    Perhaps folks are getting confused on exactly what aGPS is.

    Some phone have what's commonly referred to as "My Location". This is positioning (triangulation) based off of the cell phone towers. This is not aGPS, nor is it GPS.

    GPS is (of course) positioning based off the GPS satellites.

    aGPS IS GPS. But it is "jump started" by suppling orbital data for the GPS satellites to the cell phone (from the assistance server), enabling the cell phone to lock to the satellites when it otherwise could not, and autonomously calculate its position.

    So if a device is aGPS by default it is GPS.

    That does not meant that it cannot be locked down (and in fact companies such as Verizon do exactly that). That does not mean that there cannot be a bug that prevents GPS from working apart from the initial kick start from the assistance server (which is exactly what the 800w does--though I personally suspect it's an intentional lockdown and not a bug).
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    ....
    There is no reason not to expect an update that will give the device stand alone GPS capability.
    ...
    You can make a trend out of three devices, one of which isn't really designed for GPS usage (air card), and one which is designed completely around Sprint's network and not really geared for off network use (Instinct)?...
    Ebag, respectfully I want to say on the firs point I quoted, there is reason to expect an update and there are reasons not to expect on. The Knowledge Base article is one of the reasons to doubt. I have gotten conflicting information. I simply don't know. But one cannot say there is no reason to think they won't given the KB addition.

    On the second point, I maybe misunderstanding you, but I hope we are on the same page in understanding that a huge number of functions of the 800w are off network. The wifi makes all data connected fuctions explicitly functional off network, the bluetooth works off network, as does music playback, video playback, Microsoft office functions, the pda aspects and the camera. This is a $100 on network device with $500 worth of non network dependent functions and features added. aGPS is network dependent, but "Standalone" explicitly implies non network dependent -- like most of the features of the 800w.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Let me clarify for him. (He's said I've understood two of his points already, so lets hope I go 3 for 3. )
    And he's 3 for 3!

    The Verizon example is perfect actually:

    We know the PPC/XV-6800 can do standalone on Sprint (and Verizon with a hacked rom).

    But Verizon has it restricted to aGPS and it is locked down to using VZ Navigator.

    That is the beauty (and beast) of Qualcomm: their devices are completely configurable and to enable a feature, it costs money.

    The reason why the Samsung Instinct and Aircard do not have "standalone" is because the feature is not needed, so why should Samsung/Sierra pay for that feature? What good would standalone be for a device tied to and sold for use on Sprint's network?

    The overwhelming majority of on-phone GPS systems are strictly aGPS for obvious reasons: they use network based LBS and cannot run 3rd party GPS software. In theory they could do "standalone" but without access to network-based LBS and 3rd party apps, it'd be useless.

    WM is the rare exception, which thankfully in 2008 is becoming less rare. It is still the exception though and still buggy (see Qualcomm's/HTC's attempts at the Mogul which went through revisions on the GPS driver and performance).

    Whether any of this means it will be fixed on the Treo 800w, I have no idea and I'm not making predictions. I always err on the side of saying "no, it won't be fixed".
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/29/2008 at 12:49 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So if a device is aGPS by default it is GPS..
    You are rewording whatMmalatesta incorrectly said. He said:

    To be more clear: all aGPS systems can do standalone GPS; not all standalone GPS systems can do aGPS.
    That is false. It is a tautology. Are you and Maletesta now claiming that every aGPS device out there is also "standalone GPS?" Are you?

    Plain and simple this is as silly as claiming that every car is a gas/electric hybrid because they use a battery to start or an alternator while running.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You are rewording whatMmalatesta incorrectly said. He said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta
    To be more clear: all aGPS systems can do standalone GPS; not all standalone GPS systems can do aGPS.
    That is false. It is a tautology. Are you and Maletesta now claiming that every aGPS device out there is also "standalone GPS?" Are you?

    Plain and simple this is as silly as claiming that every car is a gas/electric hybrid because they use a battery to start or an alternator while running.
    I am rewording it, but Mal didn't say it incorrectly.

    Using the word "can" is somewhat vague (especially as he uses it twice in the same sentance with different meanings).

    Every aGPS devices out there is also "standalone GPS" in the sense that it does exactly what standalone GPS devices do.


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Plain and simple this is as silly as claiming that every car is a gas/electric hybrid because they use a battery to start or an alternator while running.
    A better example would be:

    Every hybrid car uses an internal combustion engine. Not all I/C vehicles are hybrid cards.


    Hybrid cars take an I/C engine and add a layer on top of that, the electric motors/batteries. In theory a hybrid car can operate completely off the I/C engine, but many manufacturers (Toyota, Honda, etc) have designed them so that the I/C engine will not start if the electric portion of the car is not functioning properly (even if it has nothing to do with the actual engine, and would not prevent the automobile from starting).


    Once again with gusto: aGPS IS GPS, but with an added layer/functionality/capability on top of it.
Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions