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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Thanks Aero.

    I'm still confused why we get quite different results. And I would still like to hear how you bricked your GPS.
    sending a pm
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Oh yes it does, remember when you said the words "cheaped-out"?
    For the record, I have better things to do than going around correcting FUD and poor research by certain forum members here (not you Darnell, but you're buying into it...).

    The Palm Treo 800w uses the MSM-6800A (65nm) platform, introduced by Qualcomm in May 2007, not 3 years ago as some < < Ed by Dieter > > persons like to tout.

    A simple 2 minute search on this would tell anyone this information. It's not exactly top secret.

    Moving on...
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 09/25/2008 at 11:29 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The Palm Treo 800w uses the MSM-6800A (65nm) platform, introduced by Qualcomm in May 2007, not 3 years ago as some < < ed by dieter > > persons like to tout.
    Thanks for pointing that out Mal.


    Oh, and why'd you change your avatar again? I liked your old one. This one just kinda looks creepy.
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 09/25/2008 at 11:29 PM.
  4. #124  
    lol. googling the chip and 800w, WMExperts, July 9 2008:

    Although, we do learn

    * "... it will ship with a standard and extended battery due to beta feedback"
    * RevA enabled out of the box
    * Qualcomm MSM-6800a chipset
    * GPS is standalone and assisted (noyce)
    * Talk time is "up to 4 hours" with 200 hrs standby
    * 1150 mah battery (same as the Centro)


    Seriously, even though those are my two peeves, and you listed them both quite high yourself Mal in your own pre-release warm up, I have read in a number of places and had Palm people tell me that there are legal issue with certain implementations on qualcomm chips. I do not know for certain, but am relating it here.

    I have never said the chip was three years old or even old at all. I do recall Malatesta expressing surprise and calling the MSM6800 in the 800w a strange choice compared to what he himself called the "much, much newer msm-7501."
    Last edited by aero; 09/25/2008 at 04:20 PM.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Oh, and why'd you change your avatar again? I liked your old one. This one just kinda looks creepy.
    lmao, that's what Dieter said on the podcast (just recorded)! I was like "no, it's ominous looking"

    I will probably go back to the SP icon in a bit. This is just to celebrate my first motorcycle, plus I like the creepy/foreboding look it gives
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/25/2008 at 03:55 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  6. #126  
    I like the motorcycle gear avatar better. Would be even cooler if you got someone to take a pic of you head down riding it (but not going too fast, we don't want you to hurt yourself ). You could do a side shot had have little streaks of light coming from the back of your bike like the Sprint advertisements .
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I like the motorcycle gear avatar better. Would be even cooler if you got someone to take a pic of you head down riding it (but not going too fast, we don't want you to hurt yourself ). You could do a side shot had have little streaks of light coming from the back of your bike like the Sprint advertisements .
    Ooooh, good idea!
















    I can even photoshop off the training wheels.
  8. #128  
    You guys still bickering over GPS? Most of you came from the 700 series Treo which had no GPS. Be thankfull you even have GPS.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    lol. googling the chip and 800w, WMExperts, July 9 2008:



    Seriously, even though those are my two peeves, and you listed them both quite high yourself Mal in your own pre-release warm up, I have read in a number of places and had Palm people tell me that there are legal issue with certain implementations on qualcomm chips. I do not know for certain, but am relating it here.

    I have never said the chip was three years old or even old at all. I do recall Malatesta expressing surprise and calling the MSM6800 in the 800w a strange choice compared to what he himself called the "much, much newer msm-7501."
    But that was before he spent money on it and was forced to defend it.
  10. #130  
    I'm starting to think Aero really nailed this one right. In saying the Treo 800w can't do stand alone GPS and somebody at Palm may have known and is now in CYA mode! It's not the cheapest GPS chip in the world (it is the newer stuff), it seems the Treo 800w does use the MSM6800A by Qualcomm, as has already been mentioned. Malatesta first noted the MSM6800A is used. This Qualcomm presentation states the MSM6800A is an S-GPS chip. S-GPS is simultaneous GPS, but the Treo 800w is advertised to be able to do simultaneous and stand alone GPS. (Click the Full Feature List at that prior link and it says "Autonomous and simultaneous GPS using Sprint Navigation for turn by turn directions, and points of interest searches.".) Sprint's aircard also uses the MSM6800A and is only advertised as aGPS.

    Apart from the press related to the Treo 800w, I can find nothing related to anything else with the MSM6800A, that claims it can ever do stand alone GPS.

    I don't claim to be any sort of expert on this matter, but unless someone can show otherwise, I think this Treo 800w GPS can't do stand alone. I mean no software patch can fix a chip that was never made to ever work as a true stand alone GPS. I think this is why the CDMA signal is required for the GPS to work, it's built that way by Qualcomm.

    Of course I could be wrong, as I said I'm no expert on these things, but if I'm correct in what I've mentioned, I in my personal opinion doubt Palm did not have prior knowledge of ALL of this. Sprint's aircard that uses the MSM6800A was release LAST YEAR, so even Sprint in my opinion knew.

    I don't feel good about this. I mean I don't feel good about what was done in the advertising of this product given the information I've found. Somebody please show me that I'm all wrong and how you get autonomous GPS out of a simultaneous GPS chip? The MSM6800A in particular, especially since a previously released product with the MSM6800A is sold only as aGPS.
    Last edited by darnell; 09/26/2008 at 01:09 AM.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Somebody please show me that I'm all wrong and how you get autonomous GPS out of a simultaneous GPS chip?
    The only thing I can think of as a defense would be saying "autonomous" means software wise, it is not locked (see Verizon and Bell on how they lock down the GPS on BlackBerries).

    That is quite a stretch though...

    Then again does autonomous mean standalone (in the technical GPS terminolgy)
    and did Palm ever say it does the latter specifically?
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Then again does autonomous mean standalone (in the technical GPS terminolgy)
    and did Palm ever say it does the latter specifically?
    Treo 800w specs on Palm.com:
    GPS Built-in GPS (standalone and assisted); Sprint Navigation(SM); GPS-powered local search, maps, and navigation from the Today screen
  13. #133  
    ha...

    well, then they are obviously confused ;-)

    though I'll await the 1st Rom update to see what happens

    don't forget, people were positively convinced that there was no gps antenna in the Mogul and therefore standalone was impossible...
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ha...

    well, then they are obviously confused ;-)

    though I'll await the 1st Rom update to see what happens

    don't forget, people were positively convinced that there was no gps antenna in the Mogul and therefore standalone was impossible...
    Confused, well put .

    Personally speaking, I think they'll get the Treo 800w to have true stand alone GPS the same day the Treo 800w works as a teleportation device .

    But seriously, their statement on the matter does not give any indication they desire to change anything. They're not even acknowledging any issue exists.

    Hopefully they'll allow anyone who is upset about this to return the device for a full refund for up to 1 year, as a warranty issue.

    From the Treo 800w 1 year warranty:
    EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES

    Should a covered defect occur during the warranty period and you notify Palm, your sole and exclusive remedy shall be, at Palm’s sole option and expense, to repair or replace the product or software. If Palm cannot reasonably repair nor replace then Palm may, in its sole discretion, refund the purchase price paid for the product.
    ...
    Unless they're willing to basically upgrade any Treo 800w upon request.

    And if they really wanted to show they are upstanding about the matter, they could toss a bone to all Treo 800w owners. (As they've done in the past, with the 128MB SD card given out freely to Treo 650 owners when there were issues with that device regarding space.) Perhaps they could send everyone a free compass .
  15. #135  
    Been keeping up with the stand-alone discussions, but haven't for the last month or so I apologize if this was stated already. Check out this article on palm.com about stand-alone gps which proves that the 800w should be doing true stand-alone (but the part about getting the network time is sort of the opposite of what stand-alone means however!) I can say that it works while I was overseas and no cdma networks was available, but it worked only once out of the many times I tried and took some time to connect to 6 satellites in the ##gps# screen.

    GPS (stand-alone)

    You can use stand-alone GPS in the following cases:

    * When the data network is not available or the cellular radio is powered off.
    * When your Treo 800w does not have a voice and/or data plan from a mobile service provider.

    To use stand-alone GPS:

    1. Make sure your device is outside and in an area with sufficient open space.
    2. Turn on the cellular radio (press and hold the red button) to acquire the system time from the network. This is necessary to acquire the first GPS location fix. You can do this even if you don't have a voice/data plan from a mobile service provider.
    3. Once the system time is acquired, turn off the cellular radion (press and hold the red button); it is not needed to get GPS location fix.

    The step to power on the radio to acquire system time is necessary whenever Treo 800w is reset.

    It may take as long as 8 to 10 minutes to get a fix on a satellite. Once the GPS fix is obtained, the location must be shown on a map. For this, there are two options:
    Source:
    http://kb.palm.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBC...ase=obj(17267)
  16. #136  
    Yea opacityzero, that's been covered and EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say Palm denies any problem exists. But that's all discussed further back.
  17. #137  
    Yes, this topic does seem a little assinine at this point-

    We all know it doesen't work, and at this point Palm seems to not really address it as an issue.

    The only thing I can say of any useful relevance is that it 'isn't just the need for a CDMA tower for a cellular network time' to begin the GPS lock- as this unit did not work anywhere in Canada where I could roam onto the network but was completely Data locked.

    The GPS is a crock, it was not shipped standalone- whether or not it will ever be is up in the air.
    The book and website advertise a standalone GPS function.

    Palm did not deliver- this does not work without a data connection.

    I am glad HTC is coming rapidly with the Touch Pro, as I will return my Treo to Sprint (or to Palm) and go for the other device.
    Regardless of Satisfaction- I request everyone file a BBB complaint against Palm for their deceptive advertising and failure to provide support for their product.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by grant516 View Post

    The only thing I can say of any useful relevance is that it 'isn't just the need for a CDMA tower for a cellular network time' to begin the GPS lock- as this unit did not work anywhere in Canada where I could roam onto the network but was completely Data locked.
    Well that settles that. Aero could not get it to work away from any CDMA signal and away from Sprint's signal even with CDMA it does not start either.

    I request everyone file a BBB complaint against Palm...
    In my personal opinion, I suspect Sprint knew too, because their own aircard uses the exact same chip and they never claim that can do stand alone GPS. In my personal opinion Palm knew because Qualcomm makes no secret of the capabilities of the MSM6800A. Simultaneous GPS is not stand alone GPS according to anything I've seen outside of claims made about the 800w and we know the 800w has a simultaneous GPS chip. I might make a complaint against BOTH Palm and Sprint.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Skfny, no offense but you actually need a shred of evidence to make such an outlandish claim.
    No offense, but it's equally baseless to think that NONE of these fixes were assisted just because you don't know of any. We know Palm has engaged members of the community for other ends because members have been at liberty to discuss such involvement.

    I also don't see any reason that Palm couldn't assist developers now, even if they never have in the past, to get a fix for a much-requested (and advertised) feature. Hopefully someone can use the Pro as a template for unlocking the 800w's GPS before I return this otherwise decent phone.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post

    So interesting tradeoff: we don't have standalone but our aGPS works. Other devices have standalone but you have to join a nerd forum and hack your device to enable aGPS.
    LOL.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
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