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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    (I had a sprint tech brick his own 800w's GPS!)
    That's oddly amusing...
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Nope. I own three 800Ws. Several are replacements for other issues so I have had five altogether. They all have the same exact problems with standalone GPS.
    My comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek. I had thought that would have conveyed that, but I guess not.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    As far as I know after all the speculation back and forth about standalone, it is I in July who took the 800w out of the country and settled the issue of whether the device would initiate GPS without a tower. Up til that point and actually for a month after, Palm was giving users no serious response to the question of whether this was the case or not.
    Yes you did, and I certainly appreciate that.

    While Palm did not give us an answer, I along with several others knew it would not work as we had tested it (both simulated with the radio off, as well as radio on but no service).


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    the bricking of one unit's gps was caused through the ##477# menu which can cause problems that cannot be fixed through hard or rtn resets. (I had a sprint tech brick his own 800w's GPS!)
    Have you posted the steps you took to brick it? I've been in there and played around with some of the stuff, but have not had any issues.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Mogul's stand alone GPS not work at release out of the box?
    You are wrong. The GPS didn't work at all on the Mogul when first released because the GPS driver wasn't ready yet when Sprint launched it. Once it was updated, standalone and aGPS worked perfectly, as they do on the Touch, Q9c and Diamond.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    You are wrong. The GPS didn't work at all on the Mogul when first released because the GPS driver wasn't ready yet when Sprint launched it. Once it was updated, standalone and aGPS worked perfectly, as they do on the Touch, Q9c and Diamond.
    I'm not even sure that makes sense.

    aGPS is more complicated than GPS, since it's just GPS with an extra layer over it. Also, since Qualcomm makes many of the chipsets for different devices, the drivers should exist already in one form or another.



    Not to mention...


    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Your theory still makes no sense. Look at Sprint's other phones released before and after the 800w. All of them have aGPS and standalone GPS. The Mogul, Touch, Q9c, Diamond, etc. None of them are locked down or restricted in any way. I'd bet any amount of money that the Touch Pro won't be locked down either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Mogul's stand alone GPS not work at release out of the box?
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    You are wrong. The GPS didn't work at all on the Mogul when first released because the GPS driver wasn't ready yet when Sprint launched it. Once it was updated, standalone and aGPS worked perfectly, as they do on the Touch, Q9c and Diamond.
    (Emphasis mine.)

    Sounds like Palm isn't the only one trying to redefine what they said.
  5. #105  
    aGPS doesn't work out-of-the-box on the Q9c or the Touch Diamond either...in fact it looks like quite the operation to enable aGPS on the Touch Diamond with one .cab file, 16 steps and getting your MSL--hardly easy or obvious for the novice.

    So interesting tradeoff: we don't have standalone but our aGPS works. Other devices have standalone but you have to join a nerd forum and hack your device to enable aGPS.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/21/2008 at 06:15 PM.

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  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    in fact it looks like quite the operation to enable aGPS on the Touch Diamond with one .cab file, 16 steps and getting your MSL--hardly easy or obvious for the novice.
    And using QPST!

    Definitely not easy. QPST can screw up your device very quickly.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    aGPS doesn't work out-of-the-box on the Q9c or the Touch Diamond either...in fact it looks like quite the operation to enable aGPS on the Touch Diamond with one .cab file, 16 steps and getting your MSL--hardly easy or obvious for the novice.

    So interesting tradeoff: we don't have standalone but our aGPS works. Other devices have standalone but you have to join a nerd forum and hack your device to enable aGPS.
    Well if it's "either or" I'll take aGPS, but I do want this thing to work as advertised. (Yea I know that second part of my statement has been repeated ad nauseum.)

    Perhaps one day we'll find a means to hack things so stand alone works when we need it.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    So interesting tradeoff: we don't have standalone but our aGPS works. Other devices have standalone but you have to join a nerd forum and hack your device to enable aGPS.
    Not a tradeoff really since there are handsets that do both, including the latest Treo, and this Treo was advertised as doing both.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Not a tradeoff really since there are handsets that do both, including the latest Treo, and this Treo was advertised as doing both.
    Don't put words in Mal's mouth.

    First off, he never said there are not other handsets that do both. He knows there are. Everyone does. He was specifically addressing two devices (that nxprime mentioned by name).

    Secondly, he knows that the Treo was advertised as doing both. No where did he say otherwise. He spoke of the actual function of the device.

    So unless you live in "spec world" (or maybe "advertising world"), then yes, it is a trade off.
  10. #110  
    ebag, tell me exactly what are you having trouble with and I'll explain it to you.

    1. The Mogul and Touch did not have GPS (aGPS or standalone) when first released.
    2. A software update enabled aGPS on those devices and a simple (one key) registry edit enabled standalone GPS.
    3. The 800w doesn't have standalone GPS but is advertised as having it. It will probably never have it. It's a bug that Palm has admitted to.
    Last edited by nsxprime; 09/23/2008 at 12:12 AM.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    ebag, tell me exactly what are you having trouble with and I'll explain it to you.

    1. The Mogul and Touch did not have GPS (aGPS or standalone) when first released.
    Right. Which (on the Mogul) is what I said after you claimed that it did have both aGPS and GPS.

    Then you claimed I was wrong.

    Now, you certainly may have intended to say something differently. Perhaps you meant "The Mogul and Touch have both now, but they didn't have (one or both) when first release." That may have been what you meant, but it's certainly not what you said.

    And I'm still a bit confused why you said I was wrong in saying that the Mogul didn't have standalone GPS when it was first released. Maybe I'm wrong for agreeing with you?

    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    2. A software update enabled aGPS on those devices and a simple (one key) registry edit enabled standalone GPS.
    A software update is a far cry from support out of the box. Furthermore, it opens the door that Palm can add true standalone GPS down the road.

    Additionally, maybe you should take a look at Mal's post. Enabling aGPS isn't exactly easy, by any stretch of the imagination.


    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    3. The 800w doesn't have standalone GPS but is advertised as having it. It will probably never have it. It's a bug that Palm has admitted to.
    That's funny. On one hand you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    2. A software update enabled aGPS on those devices
    and on the other you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    3. The 800w doesn't have standalone...It will probably never have it.
    So I suppose that it's impossible for Palm to release a software update, eh?

    And Palm still hasn't admitted to it being a bug, so you're wrong there as well. Palm's charging full bore down the road of "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"



    Hmmm....0 for 3, eh?
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    So I suppose that it's impossible for Palm to release a software update, eh?

    And Palm still hasn't admitted to it being a bug, so you're wrong there as well. Palm's charging full bore down the road of "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"
    I think the difference here is that the Mogul and Touch required a software update because the drivers were not fully developed/tested/ready for release or whatever the case may be. In the case of the 800w, it seems that Palm implemented their standalone GPS in a non-standalone fashion (which, whether they admit it or not, is a bug). Unless something changed suddenly before the release, it's not like no one (the testers and engineers) could have known that the 800w's GPS wasn't true standalone. Their redefinition of standalone GPS makes me lose faith in the idea that they'll simply release a software update. If they were doing a software update, I think it would be easier for them to just say they were working on a software update rather than redefine an industry standard term to fit their situation.

    Furthermore, in regards to the Diamond and the Q9c, if you look on the Sprint site, they are described only as being GPS enabled. In this case, these devices are as advertised - they have working GPS. Whether it is standalone or assisted is not mentioned, and therefore the only requirement they must meet is that they have some form of GPS, which they do. So yes you have to hack away to get aGPS, but it's not like you're being misinformed about anything like one might be with the 800w.

    The 800w however, is especially advertised as having "Autonomous and simultaneous GPS" on the Sprint site. Not sure what simultaneous GPS is, but one would be led to believe that the 800w is capable of standalone GPS, when it has been proven not to be thus far.

    At the end of the day, I just hope Palm some how releases an update that enables standalone GPS, if that is possible. I've gone back to my 700wx from my Mogul (couldn't stand it being so slow anymore) and have fallen in love with the Treo form factor again. However, I am definitely more interested in the Touch Pro than I am the 800w, especially if it has standalone GPS that works.
  13. #113  
    I think the Touch uses MSM7500, while the 800w uses MSM6800, which is the same as novatel U720, the MSM6800 have some GPS problem being that it is AGPS standalone instead of MSM7500 which is standalone.
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  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Don't put words in Mal's mouth.

    First off, he never said there are not other handsets that do both. He knows there are. Everyone does. He was specifically addressing two devices (that nxprime mentioned by name).

    Secondly, he knows that the Treo was advertised as doing both. No where did he say otherwise. He spoke of the actual function of the device.

    So unless you live in "spec world" (or maybe "advertising world"), then yes, it is a trade off.
    I didn't put words in anyone's mouth or even take it out of context. The use of the word "tradeoff" carries an implication that it is either/or. That isn't the case with examples such as the Palm Pro -- nor is it the case with the narrow set examples some are defining.

    For what it is worth I have a communication from Palm yesterday saying the engineering team is still working on this. The implication is they will not be able to fix the initialization without a CDMA land tower, but they are working to stop the quick dropping of Sats when out of CDMA range.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by kocoman View Post
    I think the Touch uses MSM7500, while the 800w uses MSM6800, which is the same as novatel U720, the MSM6800 have some GPS problem being that it is AGPS standalone instead of MSM7500 which is standalone.
    That's bad news. Sounds like Palm cheaped-out with the 800w when the decided to use an inferior chipset. The MSM6800 is over three years old!

    Their own Treo Pro uses the MSM7201 chipset that was released this year and has full GPS.
  16. #116  
    Well it seems Aero's theory on this might very well be factual. Congratulations Aero, you probably have correctly deduced that we're totally stuck .
  17. #117  
    Thanks Darnell. I think actually that 90% of us are 90% on the same page. I don't hate my 800Ws. I like them. I think the aGPS works great. I think the utility with third party programs is a real plus.

    I think we have to keep our eye on the ball with targeting results on the standalone issue. For me this was a real part of my purchase decision. No real answer was forthcoming for the relevant 30 days.

    People who have an interest in this should register their disappointment to Palm and their insistence that this will be fixed. Being strident is not whining, it is being an empowered consumer.

    I especially want to thank user ebag. I may disagree on a few of his points but like myself he has done a lot of frustrating legwork with Palm and kept his eye on the target of getting this fixed and clarified as much as possible.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I especially want to thank user ebag. I may disagree on a few of his points but like myself he has done a lot of frustrating legwork with Palm and kept his eye on the target of getting this fixed and clarified as much as possible.
    Thanks Aero.

    I'm still confused why we get quite different results. And I would still like to hear how you bricked your GPS.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Well it seems Aero's theory on this might very well be factual. Congratulations Aero, you probably have correctly deduced that we're totally stuck .
    Yes, it sounds like the 800w will never have standalone GPS. The good news is that the 30-day return window is thrown out because an advertised feature does not work.

    If anyone gets in touch with someone of importance at Palm, please ask them why they used a chipset that was over three years old in the 800w. It just doesn't make sense.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    ...please ask them why they used a chipset that was over three years old in the 800w. It just doesn't make sense.
    Oh yes it does, remember when you said the words "cheaped-out"?
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