Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567891015 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 304
  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Before I killed my gps altogether what my tests were showing is that sat connections that got dropped were not reacquired and new sats were not picked up without another tower hit. So HDOP was increasing and then position was lost altogether.
    I know. It's what I've been reporting from the beginning. If you're in-signal to start, you can acquire some sats. Once you leave the signal area, you can retain those sats so long as you're not moving very far or very fast (kind of defeats the whole purpose of GPS).

    Ebag, Palm leaked the 650's earpiece patch. Search for it.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I know. It's what I've been reporting from the beginning. If you're in-signal to start, you can acquire some sats. Once you leave the signal area, you can retain those sats so long as you're not moving very far or very fast (kind of defeats the whole purpose of GPS).
    That may be your experience but it has not been mine.

    Again, I've traveled nearly 100 miles completely without service, and always had 6-8 satellites. I picked up new satellites with no issues.

    I'm not trying to say that you (or anyone else) did not experience what you say you did, or that it's not possible that what you're suggesting could happen, but I do know that every time I've been out of service, I've had zero issues with GPS. (Provided I started GPS while in service.)



    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Ebag, Palm leaked the 650's earpiece patch. Search for it.
    Great, so you have one example. And even in that one example, Palm went around trying to get everyone to remove the files. They did not (and do not) intentionally leak files. (Heck, they won't even leak info on upcoming devices.)

    Lets compare that to all the hacks folks have done.....

    There have been tons of situations where something is locked down thanks to the carrier, and Palm has never bypassed it. Your example doesn't even have anything to do with Palm leaking something to bypass a lock down.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    That may be your experience but it has not been mine.

    Again, I've traveled nearly 100 miles completely without service, and always had 6-8 satellites. I picked up new satellites with no issues.

    I'm not trying to say that you (or anyone else) did not experience what you say you did, or that it's not possible that what you're suggesting could happen, but I do know that every time I've been out of service, I've had zero issues with GPS. (Provided I started GPS while in service.)





    Great, so you have one example. And even in that one example, Palm went around trying to get everyone to remove the files. They did not (and do not) intentionally leak files. (Heck, they won't even leak info on upcoming devices.)

    Lets compare that to all the hacks folks have done.....

    There have been tons of situations where something is locked down thanks to the carrier, and Palm has never bypassed it. Your example doesn't even have anything to do with Palm leaking something to bypass a lock down.
    We have no way of knowing which developers were assisted by Palm in their miraculous cures. Those developers wouldn't want to jeopardize their relationship with Palm, and Palm wouldn't want to jeopardize their relationships with carriers.

    Maybe EVERY single fix on TC and XDA et al have been the work of developers with no assist from Palm, but I seriously doubt it.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    Could be your BT GPS. I have no problems connecting my 800w to my BT GPS (OnCourse Bluetooth GPS Receiver Edition 3). I just don't, since it's kind of redundant with the 800w having a built-in GPS. I originally bought it to use on my 700wx. Did you create an outgoing serial port on the 800w?
    Confusing - let me clarify. Yes, the BT GPS does work, but if I have to carry around my BT GPS anyway, it severely negates the need for built-in GPS. Unless the GPS is fixed to be truly standalone, it and the 800w as a whole are useless to me.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    They broke all the "rules" with carriers in releasing the Treo Pro unlocked in the USA. And they opened up everything, including GPS. I think that's how they prefer to release products and the carriers lock them down.
    PLEASE don't make any comparisons between the 800w and the Pro. They might as well have been made by different companies. I don't think Sprint/Verizon asked for the exclusion of a headset jack or demanded a smaller battery.

    I don't argue that the CDMA carriers are behind this GPS lockdown, but we've done many things on our Treos that the carriers would not endorse (PAM, streaming video, etc).
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    PLEASE don't make any comparisons between the 800w and the Pro. They might as well have been made by different companies. I don't think Sprint/Verizon asked for the exclusion of a headset jack or demanded a smaller battery.
    Very true.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    We have no way of knowing which developers were assisted by Palm in their miraculous cures. Those developers wouldn't want to jeopardize their relationship with Palm, and Palm wouldn't want to jeopardize their relationships with carriers.

    Maybe EVERY single fix on TC and XDA et al have been the work of developers with no assist from Palm, but I seriously doubt it.
    Skfny, no offense but you actually need a shred of evidence to make such an outlandish claim.

    There is none and I would think a lot of developers would be offended by your statement. Lets be honest: Garnet is not exactly the hardest OS to program for, decompile or reverse engineer. And the WM community/SDKs have been around long enough where just about everything is now documented.
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    PLEASE don't make any comparisons between the 800w and the Pro. They might as well have been made by different companies.
    Actually, it sure seems that this is the case! The Treo Pro is more HTC than Palm, though Palm had a hand in designing and final say, a lot of the "Palm sauce" is not on the device like the 800w ;-)
    Last edited by Malatesta; 09/19/2008 at 10:41 AM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    PLEASE don't make any comparisons between the 800w and the Pro. They might as well have been made by different companies. I don't think Sprint/Verizon asked for the exclusion of a headset jack or demanded a smaller battery.

    I don't argue that the CDMA carriers are behind this GPS lockdown, but we've done many things on our Treos that the carriers would not endorse (PAM, streaming video, etc).
    skfny - My point was that the GPS lockdown was likely a decree from the carriers. We agree on that point.

    Batteries and jacks is not exactly the same as whether a device is going to be locked on certain functionality that the device is fully capable of doing from a hardware standpoint.
  9. dave75's Avatar
    Posts
    796 Posts
    Global Posts
    806 Global Posts
    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    skfny - My point was that the GPS lockdown was likely a decree from the carriers. We agree on that point.

    Batteries and jacks is not exactly the same as whether a device is going to be locked on certain functionality that the device is fully capable of doing from a hardware standpoint.
    I don't understand why you think the carriers would benefit from this problem. You can still use programs like Tomtom or Garmin so the carriers make no money by restricting you to their monthly fee apps. My guess is one of three things: the marketing people totally blew it, the engineers misunderstood a requirement from the marketing people, or the engineers underspeced the antenna (or something like this) and found out that it wouldn't work without aGPS.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    I don't understand why you think the carriers would benefit from this problem. You can still use programs like Tomtom or Garmin so the carriers make no money by restricting you to their monthly fee apps. My guess is one of three things: the marketing people totally blew it, the engineers misunderstood a requirement from the marketing people, or the engineers underspeced the antenna (or something like this) and found out that it wouldn't work without aGPS.
    I think another strong possibility is that it is a qualcomm requirement. I think Qualcomm lost some court cases on that chip.

    As I have noted we have heard a variety of answers from Palm, but the tech support person at palm who seemed the most sober and who already understood the issue, indicated that this may be the real problem.

    If you look a the rather poorly and contradictory Palm Knowledge base article, they repeat what I have said from the beginning, as it stands, under perfect GPS conditions, under which the cheapest worst gps unit would get a signal, you can NEVER get one on an 800w unless first contacting a cdma tower. I think there is more to this than "assistance." I think it is possible it is intentionally disabled from initializing outside of tower range.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    I don't understand why you think the carriers would benefit from this problem. You can still use programs like Tomtom or Garmin so the carriers make no money by restricting you to their monthly fee apps. My guess is one of three things: the marketing people totally blew it, the engineers misunderstood a requirement from the marketing people, or the engineers underspeced the antenna (or something like this) and found out that it wouldn't work without aGPS.
    What's the point of thieves stealing 800w's (in large numbers from Sprint's internal stock) to take other countries to market as WM GPS and Wifi devices, when most other nations don't have CDMA? Sure not having the phone does not play so well on the international black market, but a WM GPS and Wifi device might still sell. A WM device with no GPS, no phone and just Wifi is less desired. That's one reason.

    You can use Tomtom and Garmin, but not like with a true standalone GPS device, because you need the Sprint signal. Which will leave some people who might not have otherwise considered Sprint's service using it. Sprint had nothing to lose by locking down the GPS and every person who signs up with them is their gain.



    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think another strong possibility is that it is a qualcomm requirement. I think Qualcomm lost some court cases on that chip.

    As I have noted we have heard a variety of answers from Palm, but the tech support person at palm who seemed the most sober and who already understood the issue, indicated that this may be the real problem.

    If you look a the rather poorly and contradictory Palm Knowledge base article, they repeat what I have said from the beginning, as it stands, under perfect GPS conditions, under which the cheapest worst gps unit would get a signal, you can NEVER get one on an 800w unless first contacting a cdma tower. I think there is more to this than "assistance." I think it is possible it is intentionally disabled from initializing outside of tower range.
    I'll just say this is plausible. Possibly that, but the history of these kinds of issues points to the carrier locking it down.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    What's the point of thieves stealing 800w's (in large numbers from Sprint's internal stock) to take other countries to market as WM GPS and Wifi devices, when most other nations don't have CDMA? Sure not having the phone does not play so well on the international black market, but a WM GPS and Wifi device might still sell. A WM device with no GPS, no phone and just Wifi is less desired. That's one reason.
    Darnell, I fully appreciate your point. But please keep in mind it is just about thieves though. It is a perfectly legitimate customer prerogative and expectation to use non phone features on a device like the 800w off network while on contract -- and off network permanently, when they buy a replacement.

    EG If I buy a phone with a camera and mp3 player and I buy a full priced replacement in a year, or a subsidized replacement in 22 months, and want to give the retired handset to my kid, I have every expectation and right to use those functions when the device is deactivated from Sprint.

    The $600 800w, in addition to the camera and mp3 player, is a pda with wifi and other features such as GPS.

    Only the phone and EVDO would rationally be expected to be disabled when you "retire" the device from service. On a $100 phone that might mean nothing useful remains. But the consumer has a right to expect a fully owned device to work in all other functions.

    Before anyone says well it isn't a $600 cost device, it is in fact a $600 cost device. Most people who got it for $250 would have gotten a $300 handset for free. You pay through your contract for any subsidy.

    Companies have a right to devise methods to avoid black market abuse of subsidy. Sprints transparent method, to which we as customers make an informed agreement, is to be held to the contract term, if in violation pay an ETF. There is not reasonable expectation on this purchased (not leased) device to expect features outside of phone and evdo to be covertly disabled as a method to protect Sprint. [/QUOTE]
  13. #93  
    Aero - I totally agree with you man. I totally think it's wrong what has been done. I was just explaining reasons they might do such a thing.

    And if it was done because of some realization that the GPS is too weak on its own as you've speculated. It's wrong that they've given us the response they gave.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Aero - I totally agree with you man. I totally think it's wrong what has been done. I was just explaining reasons they might do such a thing.

    And if it was done because of some realization that the GPS is too weak on its own as you've speculated. It's wrong that they've given us the response they gave.
    Your theory still makes no sense. Look at Sprint's other phones released before and after the 800w. All of them have aGPS and standalone GPS. The Mogul, Touch, Q9c, Diamond, etc. None of them are locked down or restricted in any way. I'd bet any amount of money that the Touch Pro won't be locked down either.

    The lack of standalone GPS on the 800w sure sounds like a legitimate bug that Palm has no intention of fixing. Now there could be some strange contract between Palm and Qualcomm, but I can't imagine why there would be such a thing.
  15. #95  
    I think Ebag333's initial assertion was that possibly Verizon requested the lock. And that they are better known for doing that sort of thing. I've always mentioned "Verizon and/or Sprint", till asked why Sprint might do it.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    I don't understand why you think the carriers would benefit from this problem. You can still use programs like Tomtom or Garmin so the carriers make no money by restricting you to their monthly fee apps. My guess is one of three things: the marketing people totally blew it, the engineers misunderstood a requirement from the marketing people, or the engineers underspeced the antenna (or something like this) and found out that it wouldn't work without aGPS.
    Many carriers believe that by locking it down, you encourage them to use their paid solutions (IE: Sprint Navigation).

    Personally I don't believe that's true, but it is a popular theory in some circles.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Your theory still makes no sense. Look at Sprint's other phones released before and after the 800w. All of them have aGPS and standalone GPS. The Mogul, Touch, Q9c, Diamond, etc. None of them are locked down or restricted in any way. I'd bet any amount of money that the Touch Pro won't be locked down either.

    The lack of standalone GPS on the 800w sure sounds like a legitimate bug that Palm has no intention of fixing. Now there could be some strange contract between Palm and Qualcomm, but I can't imagine why there would be such a thing.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Mogul's stand alone GPS not work at release out of the box?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I think Ebag333's initial assertion was that possibly Verizon requested the lock. And that they are better known for doing that sort of thing. I've always mentioned "Verizon and/or Sprint", till asked why Sprint might do it.
    Sprint has asked for and done lock downs of their own. But on a far smaller scale than many other carriers.

    It's possible that Sprint requested it.
  17. dave75's Avatar
    Posts
    796 Posts
    Global Posts
    806 Global Posts
    #97  
    I think you guys are giving to much credit here. We're talking about Palm and Sprint. My guess is somebody screwed up, but who knows.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Mogul's stand alone GPS not work at release out of the box?


    .
    It was never advertised by either Sprint or HTC unlike the 800 where the feature list clearly states "assisted and standalone". Which means out of the box.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post


    Sprint has asked for and done lock downs of their own. But on a far smaller scale than many other carriers.

    It's possible that Sprint requested it.
    I agree, which is why I usually say "Verizon and/or Sprint". And yes I know Sprint and Verizon both have asked for certain locks at times. Hey man, I've been around and seen them do odd things over the years.
  20. #100  
    Originally Posted by aero View Post
    ok. I have bricked gps altogether.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Well, maybe that's why you're having issues.
    Nope. I own three 800Ws. Several are replacements for other issues so I have had five altogether. They all have the same exact problems with standalone GPS.

    As far as I know after all the speculation back and forth about standalone, it is I in July who took the 800w out of the country and settled the issue of whether the device would initiate GPS without a tower. Up til that point and actually for a month after, Palm was giving users no serious response to the question of whether this was the case or not.

    In fact the "issues" I am having are exactly represented in long awaited Palm official redefinition of Standalone posted here from their knowledge base.

    the bricking of one unit's gps was caused through the ##477# menu which can cause problems that cannot be fixed through hard or rtn resets. (I had a sprint tech brick his own 800w's GPS!)
Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567891015 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions