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  1. #221  
    You know it's bad when someone invokes the Merriam-Webster page.

    The bottom line is that this GPS is mostly useless except for short urban trips when you can be sure you will remain in a Sprint coverage area. If I can't be sure it will be able to provide a signal w/ an open sky, I might as well use a keyring BT GPS.

    If I'm using a BT GPS anyway, my 700wx offers many benefits over my 800w. (separate headset jack, better wired headset selection, better battery life, louder speaker, screen that is more visible outdoors, better app compatibility). I don't need the higher-res screen, Wi-Fi, or the extra RAM or ROM. I don't need a crippled GPS 800w.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    You know it's bad when someone invokes the Merriam-Webster page.

    The bottom line is that this GPS is mostly useless except for short urban trips when you can be sure you will remain in a Sprint coverage area.
    It really depends on where you live. I live in the Northeast - I have traveled through CT, MA, and down as far as North Carolina, while almost never losing coverage. So the GPS is terrific for me.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    It really depends on where you live. I live in the Northeast - I have traveled through CT, MA, and down as far as North Carolina, while almost never losing coverage. So the GPS is terrific for me.
    same here, in fact I have never officially tested the "standalone problem"...it's just not important or relevant for my needes. And considering the overwhelming majority of phones don't do standalone, only assisted, we're not the odd man out. (This is separate from the misleading advertising issue, which should be remedied asap).

    If I need a dedicated GPS system for my car or bike, it won't this phone or any other. I'll buy a TomTom or Garmin for ~$100: much bigger screen, dedicated system, etc.

    Phone GPS is for when I'm in a pinch or walking around. And with more and more new cars coming with built in Nav systems, you will see the market shift for smartphones too, with mapping solutions for driving going the way of the PDA.

    aGPS, its even more advanced sibling eGPS & social networking/commerce advances are 100% the future of mobile devices as customers do not want 2-10 min cold starts for their GPS but rather 2-5 seconds of the new generation systems.

    Other than that, haven't touched my 700wx since that day in July the 800w came in the mail.

    Not one advantage that it has over my 800w for my usage.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    If I need a dedicated GPS system for my car or bike, it won't this phone or any other. I'll buy a TomTom or Garmin for ~$100: much bigger screen, dedicated system, etc.
    As a counterpoint the exact same could be said for MP3 or quite a number of functions of a $600 smartphone.

    In terms of the advantages of aGPS, again this is not the issue, since it is not an either/or situation. Both aGPS and Standalone GPS have their advantages -- that is why Palm advertised it 800w as having both and why a number of reviewers, yourself included, noted having both as a distinct advantage.

    By the way those $100 (or for that matter $200 and $300) Garmins and TomToms are not connected devices. With a bluetooth dongle GPS on my 800W I can walk by a hotspot in Zurich or Manila and download a list of relevant Points of Information onto google maps, something my Garmin will not do and something a user of an 800W would be able to do without a dongle if it worked as advertised.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    As a counterpoint the exact same could be said for MP3 or quite a number of functions of a $600 smartphone.

    In terms of the advantages of aGPS, again this is not the issue, since it is not an either/or situation. Both aGPS and Standalone GPS have their advantages -- that is why Palm advertised it 800w as having both and why a number of reviewers, yourself included, noted having both as a distinct advantage.

    By the way those $100 (or for that matter $200 and $300) Garmins and TomToms are not connected devices. With a bluetooth dongle GPS on my 800W I can walk by a hotspot in Zurich or Manila and download a list of relevant Points of Information onto google maps, something my Garmin will not do and something a user of an 800W would be able to do without a dongle if it worked as advertised.
    I should not even be saying anything to add to that, because it really sums things up well.

    The most graceful thing that could be said for the GPS issue in Palm's regard as it relates to the 800w, is that it was the first time Palm tried to include it in one of their devices. We see the Treo Pro folks are not having any extensive threads on the topic of GPS, because theirs works as advertised.

    I don't care for having yet another device to have to carry around. That's what the Treo is supposed to eliminate! The Treo 800w is advertised to have it and I expect it to work as advertised.
  6. #226  
    I think we've had 12 pages of folks saying (quite accurately) that it doesn't work in standalone mode as advertised. At what point can folks just accept it and move on? Sprint made an inaccurate statement about standalone - so either the phone works for your needs or it doesn't.

    If it doesn't, I'd suggest moving on to another device. But this really is getting folks nowhere. I'd say that maybe it's making you feel better, but considering that the posts continue on and on with the same folks, I'd wager it doesn't even do that.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think we've had 12 pages of folks saying (quite accurately) that it doesn't work in standalone mode as advertised. At what point can folks just accept it and move on? Sprint made an inaccurate statement about standalone - so either the phone works for your needs or it doesn't.

    If it doesn't, I'd suggest moving on to another device. But this really is getting folks nowhere. I'd say that maybe it's making you feel better, but considering that the posts continue on and on with the same folks, I'd wager it doesn't even do that.
    The point is whether or not Palm can/will fix the problem. They've acknowledged the bug and that the phone doesn't work as it should, but they've yet to be able to fix it. Given the chipset problems, it looks like it might never get fixed.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think we've had 12 pages of folks saying (quite accurately) that it doesn't work in standalone mode as advertised. At what point can folks just accept it and move on? Sprint made an inaccurate statement about standalone - so either the phone works for your needs or it doesn't.

    If it doesn't, I'd suggest moving on to another device. But this really is getting folks nowhere. I'd say that maybe it's making you feel better, but considering that the posts continue on and on with the same folks, I'd wager it doesn't even do that.
    I appreciate your view. But some of the people who are contending it isn't a big deal are also contending it is a driver issue. If that is indeed the case, frankly apply some consumer pressure would be helpful. Also:
    1) Sprint did not make an inaccurate statement about standalone, Palm did. So Sprint isn't the party legally responsible to remedy (nor is qualcomm), Palm is.
    2) Whether the issue is driver/software related or hardware related is important because it goes to expectations on a fix.
    3) hardware or software based, if it isn't fixed there is other recourse to remedy losses from false advertising other than "moving on."
    4) This is not some small quirk. This is not a transient bug. this is not a problem with third party apps. IE this is not the kind of problem Palms disclaimer mitigates. This was listed, advertised and promoted by Palm as one of the top features of this device.
  9. #229  
    I've been following this thread part time. It's been my experience using Sprint Nav and the GPS feature of this 800w, is that it needs the data connection to download maps and the Nav voice. Also to update the local maps along the route and to search for POI and other things.

    Now, once I have everything needed for the Nav session, I can turn the phone radio completely off, which means no voice and no data connection.

    As long as I have the satelite link, Sprint Nav functions. It won't update the local maps needed along the route. Can't do searches and a little pop up near the lower right says "No Info" But the main route, miles to the next juction (turn), remaining trip miles, ETA and turn arrows still function with the phone radio off.

    Of course, with heavy cloud cover and overhead obstructions screw up the sat link.

    I think the main problem with the 800 is the crappy internal antenna.

    I also looked thru my old emails from Palm, which was sent before the 800w was released. It does say standalone and assisted GPS on the 800w. It does NOT say totally perfect working stand alone GPS. So with the GPS working with the phone radio off, and near perfect conditions, that tells me it's standalone GPS.

    Or, do some of you think I have the wrong idea about this?



    I forgot to mention that if I press the Option soft key and go to Turn Icons, it shows the GPS signal strength (most I've seen is 5 bars) and direction of travel near the lower right. Even with the phone radio off.
    Last edited by treotraveler; 10/05/2008 at 07:54 AM.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think we've had 12 pages of folks saying (quite accurately) that it doesn't work in standalone mode as advertised. At what point can folks just accept it and move on? Sprint made an inaccurate statement about standalone - so either the phone works for your needs or it doesn't.
    Talk about this matter is only increasing as more people try the GPS on their Treo 800w. It's now a topic on several other forums, including Palm's and Buzz About Wireless.

    It's not something that will simply be "moved on" from, because many don't buy products that don't function as advertised and simply roll over when knowing the product they purchased in their opinion has been misrepresented. Sure if the Treo 800w was given to us free, you'd have a point, but money was paid, so the talk is not going to stop. Nor should it stop.

    My only concern is that people not attack each other over an issue that Palm created. So Bujin, accept the talk wont' stop, but only grows, because telling people what they should talk about only results in personal back and forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post

    I also looked thru my old emails from Palm, which was sent before the 800w was released. It does say standalone and assisted GPS on the 800w. It does NOT say totally perfect working stand alone GPS. So with the GPS working with the phone radio off, and near perfect conditions, that tells me it's standalone GPS.

    Or, do some of you think I have the wrong idea about this?
    treotraveler - The Treo 800w works as a stand alone WiFi device, you don't need to be in an area with a working Sprint signal to start a WiFi connection. It also works as a stand alone PDA for similar reasons. Regarding GPS, as has already been noted many times over, you do need a Sprint signal in order to start the GPS, which means by definition that the GPS is not stand alone. It's assisted GPS, it needs the assistance of a Sprint signal to start, unlike WiFi or using the PDA features. If the stand alone was not "totally perfect", Palm should have said "imperfect stand alone GPS", but they did not. They've created a new definition for stand alone, that is foreign to most of us and appears to have been created because Palm is preferring to drop the ball rather than fix (or make amends for) the issue.

    A stand alone GPS works with more than Sprint Navigation, the device should be able to start GPS with something such as TomTom in an area with no Sprint signal.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    I also looked thru my old emails from Palm, which was sent before the 800w was released. It does say standalone and assisted GPS on the 800w. It does NOT say totally perfect working stand alone GPS. So with the GPS working with the phone radio off, and near perfect conditions, that tells me it's standalone GPS.
    We've been over this early on. If you reset your 800w with radio actualy staying off you won't get the satellites back , ergo not standalone. Even if I don't reset, If I drive for ten minutes in good conditions I start dropping sats.

    What you are defining is aGPS, not standalone.
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    We've been over this early on. If you reset your 800w with radio actualy staying off you won't get the satellites back , ergo not standalone. Even if I don't reset, If I drive for ten minutes in good conditions I start dropping sats.

    What you are defining is aGPS, not standalone.
    Yeah, I know this has been talked about early on. But this thread has turned into an arguement with certain individuals trying to show they know more than the other guy.

    I figured I would throw something in about a general users experience. I guess I am just not as picky as some. It works as standalone with the Sprint Nav app to a certain point, depending on outside conditions for most people.

    If the picky individual wants more, then they should get another phone and install maps.

  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post

    I figured I would throw something in about a general users experience. I guess I am just not as picky as some. It works as standalone with the Sprint Nav app to a certain point, depending on outside conditions for most people.

    If the picky individual wants more, then they should get another phone and install maps.

    To be stand alone, it has to be able to start "stand alone". So considering where stand alone GPS begins, startup, the Treo 800w does not pass the test. It does not even work as stand alone at point #1, startup.

    It's not "picky" to see a device advertised as having something and actually desire to get what was paid for.

    treotraveler - You're basically speaking against people who desire true stand alone GPS and have a real world need for stand alone GPS as "picky". They simply want what was paid for. That's not picky at all. Is Aero "picky" because he purchased a device that said it was stand alone GPS and he travels places that don't have a Sprint signal and he desires the GPS to work as WiFi does when he's outside of Sprint coverage? Not to mention when outside of the USA, do you know most of the USA does not have Sprint data coverage?
  14. vMAC's Avatar
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    #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    It's not "picky" to see a device advertised as having something and actually desire to get what was paid for.
    I wonder if you complain this much when a movie that advertises itself as the "Best Movie of the Year," isn't.
    Or when your car advertises 30 mpg and you only get 28.7.

    treotraveler - You're basically speaking against people who desire true stand alone GPS and have a real world need for stand alone GPS as "picky".
    I agree with his assertion. He had 30 days in which to determine if the phone fit his needs after this time he is not only picky but also obnoxious.
    Is Aero "picky" because he purchased a device that said it was stand alone GPS and he travels places that don't have a Sprint signal and he desires the GPS to work as WiFi does when he's outside of Sprint coverage?
    Yes

    Not to mention when outside of the USA, do you know most of the USA does not have Sprint data coverage?
    Uhmm aGPS works while roaming doesn't need to be a Sprint network. I've used mine the service while roaming a many different occasions.
  15. #235  
    I am glad I ran across this thread, because I probably would not have needed the standalone GPS until after the 30 day return period was over, and been inconvenienced by not having a functional standalone GPS when I needed it.

    I have a 700wx and was planning to get the 800w at the end of this month when my 2 year contract is done, largely because of the advertised standalone GPS capabilities.

    This would allow me to not bring my Garmin GPS when hiking and traveling on vacation trips where I would not always have cell coverage, but still be able to use the 800w as my GPS.

    Looks like I have to look elsewhere, and most likely Sprint is losing a customer and maybe Palm too (although I am now considering the Palm Pro).

    Thanks for the effort with investigating this, including looking into the chip specs.

    -kg
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    I wonder if you complain this much when a movie that advertises itself as the "Best Movie of the Year," isn't.
    Or when your car advertises 30 mpg and you only get 28.7.
    An appropriate analogy would be to say if you bought a car advertised with a stereo and it didn't have one you would not complain about the advertising or missing feature but simply blame the custoemrs?

    Palm prominently advertised this feature well above other features.

    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    He had 30 days in which to determine if the phone fit his needs after this time he is not only picky but also obnoxious.
    Absurdly False. Palm stated they were working on a solution during the first 30 days. See the Original Post! Palm told me they knew it wasn't working and had the engineering team on it. Long after the 30 days they posted a faq implying there was no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    Uhmm aGPS works while roaming doesn't need to be a Sprint network. I've used mine the service while roaming a many different occasions.
    Umm, WRONG. It does often not work while roaming. Several people have reported being on roaming and not being able to initialize GPS. Crazy Eddie who has done quite a bit of testing has noted this. Also aGPS doesn't work on 98% of the earth. Standalone GPS does. Also most users are reporting aGPS doesn't even work on Sprints airave

    If WIFI were not working, Palm told people they were looking into the issue, I wonder if you would be popping in on that thread and saying people had 30 days to find out?
    Last edited by aero; 10/05/2008 at 07:11 PM.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by vMAC View Post
    I wonder if you complain this much when a movie that advertises itself as the "Best Movie of the Year," isn't.
    Oh you really made your point with that one .


    Or when your car advertises 30 mpg and you only get 28.7.
    Something more comparable in that regard would be battery life. And if you've been keeping up, I've been one of the the main ones saying the device works according to spec in that regard. This GPS issue is like saying a car works on 87 octane when it really needs diesel.

    I agree with his assertion. He had 30 days in which to determine if the phone fit his needs after this time he is not only picky but also obnoxious.
    See, this is exactly the type of personal attacks that I have been saying is of no value to this conversation. This GPS issue is a matter that fails to meet the specs, so it's not a 30 day issue, it's a 1 year Palm warranty issue. The device is defective.


    Uhmm aGPS works while roaming doesn't need to be a Sprint network. I've used mine the service while roaming a many different occasions.
    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, but there are roads in the USA where you won't get a CDMA signal and the GPS won't work. (Most have reported they can't get GPS to work while roaming.) And those who have tried to use the GPS outside of the USA have been unable to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgjevre View Post
    I am glad I ran across this thread, because I probably would not have needed the standalone GPS until after the 30 day return period was over, and been inconvenienced by not having a functional standalone GPS when I needed it.

    I have a 700wx and was planning to get the 800w at the end of this month when my 2 year contract is done, largely because of the advertised standalone GPS capabilities.

    This would allow me to not bring my Garmin GPS when hiking and traveling on vacation trips where I would not always have cell coverage, but still be able to use the 800w as my GPS.

    Looks like I have to look elsewhere, and most likely Sprint is losing a customer and maybe Palm too (although I am now considering the Palm Pro).

    Thanks for the effort with investigating this, including looking into the chip specs.

    -kg
    Well kgjevre, I'm really glad you read here so you would not be inconvenienced.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    Umm, WRONG. It does often not work while roaming. Several people have reported being on roaming and not being able to initialize GPS. Crazy Eddie who has done quite a bit of testing has noted this. Also aGPS doesn't work on 98% of the earth. Standalone GPS does.
    Yup.
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by kgjevre View Post
    I am glad I ran across this thread, because I probably would not have needed the standalone GPS until after the 30 day return period was over, and been inconvenienced by not having a functional standalone GPS when I needed it.

    I have a 700wx and was planning to get the 800w at the end of this month when my 2 year contract is done, largely because of the advertised standalone GPS capabilities.

    This would allow me to not bring my Garmin GPS when hiking and traveling on vacation trips where I would not always have cell coverage, but still be able to use the 800w as my GPS.

    Looks like I have to look elsewhere, and most likely Sprint is losing a customer and maybe Palm too (although I am now considering the Palm Pro).

    Thanks for the effort with investigating this, including looking into the chip specs.

    -kg
    Good call not getting the 800w. The Treo Pro was designed and built by HTC so it works amazingly well and is everything that the 800w should have been. The GPS works as advertised.
  19. #239  
    Is the Treo Pro really designed and produced by HTC? I've heard that the 800w was manufactured in an HTC manufacturing plant, but still Palm's designed. So I'm thinking the Treo Pro would be the same.
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    Is the Treo Pro really designed and produced by HTC? I've heard that the 800w was manufactured in an HTC manufacturing plant, but still Palm's designed. So I'm thinking the Treo Pro would be the same.
    Eddie, Mal probably knows more about this but I think there are three or four manufacture and design companies that have worked with Palm recently.

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