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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverse View Post
    I had a similar problem when I first got my phone and ran my battery all the way down and tried charging it in the car... The charging light was inconsistent and then wouldnt seem to charge at all. When I got home, I plugged it in with the wall charger and eventually it started to charge again. After about 10 minutes, the phone would come on and only stay on for a few seconds and shut off. I would then have to pull the battery and plug it back in to get it to start charging again. Eventually I noticed that no matter how long I had it on the charger, when it would boot up, the battery would still be at 0%. So for some reason, WM thought there was no charge. (Or maybe there really wasnt) So the next time I took the battery out, I held down the red key for about 10 minutes until the phone kicked back on and I was able to catch it start up so I could do a hard reset. This fixed the problem and I fortunately havent had that problem since then.
    Just FYI for everybody: most of the car chargers are rapid chargers that are not good for lithium ion batteries. They utilize a one stage charging process instead of 2 stage charging process. I would recommend to use a regular desktop charger that came with 800w for most of the charging and use a car charger to top it off as needed. Using a rapid charger most of the time will ruin your battery and definitely shorten it's life. More info on lithium ion batteries is available at www.batteryuniversity.com
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by tahkuct View Post
    Just FYI for everybody: most of the car chargers are rapid chargers that are not good for lithium ion batteries. They utilize a one stage charging process instead of 2 stage charging process. I would recommend to use a regular desktop charger that came with 800w for most of the charging and use a car charger to top it off as needed. Using a rapid charger most of the time will ruin your battery and definitely shorten it's life. More info on lithium ion batteries is available at www.batteryuniversity.com
    Thanks for the heads up. I definitely try to keep it off of the car charger when it's low, but there's times where I'm desperate when the phone is completely dead. Any recommended car chargers for this scenario?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverse View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I definitely try to keep it off of the car charger when it's low, but there's times where I'm desperate when the phone is completely dead. Any recommended car chargers for this scenario?
    I think a dedicated oem palm charger is not a rapid charger, but I am not sure.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverse View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I definitely try to keep it off of the car charger when it's low, but there's times where I'm desperate when the phone is completely dead. Any recommended car chargers for this scenario?
    Generally the more your 800w is on a charger the better for the battery. LiIon batteries lose max capacity and degrade from any draw.

    Devices such as a Treo are going to have charging limiters inherent within the unit (and often within the battery) and the charger makes little to no difference. IE you can't overcharge. even at one amp direct you are not going to feel the battery get hot after a few hours of charge (the heat actually comes at discharge)
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Generally the more your 800w is on a charger the better for the battery. LiIon batteries lose max capacity and degrade from any draw.

    Devices such as a Treo are going to have charging limiters inherent within the unit (and often within the battery) and the charger makes little to no difference. IE you can't overcharge. even at one amp direct you are not going to feel the battery get hot after a few hours of charge (the heat actually comes at discharge)
    Even though you are correct that you cannot overcharge a Treo Battery, charging method and a proper charger does make a difference. As stated above, more info at www.batteryuniversity.com
  6. #46  
    How can I tell the update was installed? My phone is acting the same or even worse. It is not recognizing my OEM Sprint car charger now.
    I'm suspecting the mini usb plug on the charger..but need to make sure the update "took."
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by tahkuct View Post
    Even though you are correct that you cannot overcharge a Treo Battery, charging method and a proper charger does make a difference. As stated above, more info at www.batteryuniversity.com
    So just how interchangeable are microusb chargers? For instance, I just got a Plantronics Voyager 855, which comes with a microusb charger. Could I use that on my 800w and vice-versa? Presumably the Plantronics charger would be slow for the 800w (it's only 180mA out). But what if I plugged the the 800w charger (1A out) in to the Plantronics? Should all these devices have limiting circuits to protect their batteries?
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       #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Av8torA320 View Post
    How can I tell the update was installed? My phone is acting the same or even worse. It is not recognizing my OEM Sprint car charger now.
    I'm suspecting the mini usb plug on the charger..but need to make sure the update "took."
    Read post #4.
  9. #49  
    Palms official guide regarding battery life says nothing about avoiding the use of a car charger when the battery is low.

    The wall charger that came with the device charges the Treo 800w rapidly too.

    The only charger that is not very fast is the USB charger and I think that's because it's doing more than charging the device.

    The batteryuniversity.com page Charging lithium-ion batteries mentions chargers that claim to fully charge a device in under an hour skip a stage, but no such claim is made by chargers like the Motorola MicroUSB High Performance Car Charger for Treo 800w.

    But just the same, that batteryuniversity.com page in the link above does not claim a rapid charger would damage the battery.
    ...
    Some chargers claim to fast-charge a lithium-ion battery in one hour or less. Such a charger eliminates stage 2 and goes directly to 'ready' once the voltage threshold is reached at the end of stage 1. The charge level at this point is about 70%. The topping charge typically takes twice as long as the initial charge.
    ...
    That batteryuniversity.com page in the link above, also notes that the battery has built in mechanisms to prevent damage:
    ...
    Much attention is focused to avoid over-charging and over-discharging. Commercial lithium ion packs contain a protection circuits that limit the charge voltage to 4.30V/cell, 0.10 volts higher than the voltage threshold of the charger. Temperature sensing disconnects the charge if the cell temperature approaches 90C (194F), and a mechanical pressure switch on many cells permanently interrupt the current path if a safe pressure threshold is exceeded. Exceptions are made on some spinel (manganese) packs containing one or two small cells.

    Extreme low voltage must also be prevented. The safety circuit is designed to cut off the current path if the battery is inadvertently discharged below 2.50V/cell.
    ...
    In fact, the batteryuniversity.com page in the link above indicates to me that the Treo 800w having a lithium-ion battery makes it the most flexible in terms of charging without fear of causing damage to the battery.

    Battery experts agree that charging lithium-ion batteries is simpler and more straightforward than the nickel-based cousins. Besides meeting the tight voltage tolerances, the charge circuit can be designed with fewer variables to consider. Full-charge detection by applying voltage limits and observing the current saturations on full charge is simpler than analyzing many complex signatures, which nickel-metal-hydride produces. Charge currents are less critical and can vary. A low current still permits proper full charge detection. The battery simply takes longer to charge. The absence of topping and trickle charge also help in simplifying the charger. Best of all, there is no memory but aging issues are the drawback.
    I'm not at all claiming any level of expertise, but I'm not seeing any evidence that using the car charger at any battery stage is a bad idea.

    The batteryuniversity.com page in the link above ends with this note:
    ...
    Note: In respect to fast-charging and topping charge, the charge behavior of lithium-ion is similar to lead acid. Here, the voltage threshold of 2.35V/cell during regular charge needs to be lowered to 2.27V/cell when the VRLA is on standby. Keeping the voltage at the high threshold would contribute to corrosion. A similar effect occurs with lithium-ion.
    VRLA = Valve Regulated Lead Acid

    The lithium-ion battery prevents overcharging, so I'm not seeing that this would be something to worry over.

    Given the provided wall charger powers up the battery at the same rate as my car chargers from my own observations, I don't see anything that indicates using the car charger will create any problem. Same with charging when using the Sprint Power Pack.
    Last edited by darnell; 08/31/2008 at 01:41 PM.
  10. #50  
    The real battery killer seems to be if you keep your Treo 800w in a hot car too much. All sources seem to indicate the battery being in too much heat is a bad thing. So I guess the Treo 800w battery has to be treated like a baby .
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by aixguru View Post
    Read post #4.

    Dope!.. thanks, I guess I should always start on page one..
    However, my phone still has trouble recognizing my car charger..guess I should take it in for exchange.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    The real battery killer seems to be if you keep your Treo 800w in a hot car too much. All sources seem to indicate the battery being in too much heat is a bad thing. So I guess the Treo 800w battery has to be treated like a baby .
    Harm to battery of the type in 800w:
    1.Heat
    3.Amount drained: liions dont age per cycle but age on amount used (i.e. five drains of 50% and recharge on a liion age the battery the same as 10cycles of 25% use and recharge.) This is why if you can you removed battery on a liion laptop, and if not cannot you always keep it plugged in.
    2.Age: about .75 or to 1% more depending on use

    Undercapacity liion for a device in real world use will cause the a battery to age faster and drop max capacity faster. In real life use if your 1150 lost 20% or 230 mAh of its max capacity in a year, a 1500 mah battery in same device with same use might end the year 2ith a lost of 100 to 150 mah.

    Quote Originally Posted by tahkuct View Post
    Even though you are correct that you cannot overcharge a Treo Battery, charging method and a proper charger does make a difference. As stated above, more info at www.batteryuniversity.com
    That is if it is not built into the device (and battery). Almost all devices of the class of the 800w have a number of inbuilt protections. The 800W is designed to take 500 ma direct and can't be expecting a drop in mA via USB as it uses a standard usb micro.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbharold View Post
    So just how interchangeable are microusb chargers? For instance, I just got a Plantronics Voyager 855, which comes with a microusb charger. Could I use that on my 800w and vice-versa? Presumably the Plantronics charger would be slow for the 800w (it's only 180mA out). But what if I plugged the the 800w charger (1A out) in to the Plantronics? Should all these devices have limiting circuits to protect their batteries?
    My 800w can pull around 400 mah with everything turned and used. 180ma would leave somewhere between very little remaining current for the battery to recharge, to net discharge.

    If you want your battery to last, and lose the least net maximum capacity over your two years use, the key is to plug it in with any method preferably 500 ma and over, as often as possible. Thjis is much more important than worryng about overcharging which would be a marginal concern,
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by rizzo89 View Post
    Has anybody had any luck syncing with bluetooth? I am having a hell of time over here. I bought 3 new dongles with the Toshiba stack and bought Sync manager so I can sync between 3 computers and I can't even sync to 1. Maybe this update will fix this???
    I did the update and my bluetooth syncing continues to work. The cable syncing was improved by the update.
  14. #54  
    I continue to have problems with bluetooth and now I have also added Vista to the list with USB. I gave up trying to sync with 3+ computers (using sync manager, either it sucks or just doesn't work w/ active sync 4.5). I re-partnered 2 computers 1 vista and 1 xp pro and I sync with usb and eventually start getting a ~8200167 error. This requires me to uninstall all partnerships and then re-install activesync. BLABLABLA. I am an end user, not a beta tester. The TREO 800w would be the best phone made to date, if it would F***ing sync correctly damn. And why is there a stupid *** limitation on 2 PCs. Why isn't there a VPN host that saves all data and we just stay logged in and it updates over the web. Why do we have a usb cable at all?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverse View Post
    I had a similar problem when I first got my phone and ran my battery all the way down and tried charging it in the car... The charging light was inconsistent and then wouldnt seem to charge at all. When I got home, I plugged it in with the wall charger and eventually it started to charge again. After about 10 minutes, the phone would come on and only stay on for a few seconds and shut off. I would then have to pull the battery and plug it back in to get it to start charging again. Eventually I noticed that no matter how long I had it on the charger, when it would boot up, the battery would still be at 0%. So for some reason, WM thought there was no charge. (Or maybe there really wasnt) So the next time I took the battery out, I held down the red key for about 10 minutes until the phone kicked back on and I was able to catch it start up so I could do a hard reset. This fixed the problem and I fortunately havent had that problem since then.
    yeah thanx for sharing that info.. i was able to do a hard reset and it began to work again but just as i was about to reactivate my phone again through CS it started doing it again... can you all believe that my replacement phone still hasn't arrived yet!!!! and i have been using this cheapo sanyo s1 phone that i paid $186 for... and just for the record the s1 is the DUMBEST PHONE EVER MADE, texting on it is S T U P I D ! ! !.. i am beyond pissed right now at sprint.
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