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  1.    #1  
    It's one of those programs I've always "wondered" about trying. Especially now that I'm using my first WM device. Has anyone tried it to know it works OK with the 800w? Any thoughts on how useful such a program might be?
  2. #2  
    I dont think they are useful at all.

    When is the last time you heard of someone having an issue with a dos attack on a smartphone???

    Blocks SMS from unknown sender... no thanks.

    $30!!!


    Bottom line is that there is nothing to really be concerned about from a security standpoint on the wm platform. I am sure this will change in the future but as of today- no worries.

    I do think a firewall that showed and tied all network traffic to an application would be cool, but that is not a feautre they were touting.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  3. #3  
    Norton is a hog and a waste on a desktop let alone a mobile device. I'd suggest don't bother unless you want to make your phone slower.
  4.    #4  
    Kasracer - I've heard complaints about their desktop tools for many years, but I happen to feel some of their desktop utilities are good. I really didn't want to debate that. But tools like Norton Antibot run clean and smooth without any unnecessary bloatware. I've used their desktop products for a very long time and also have a box here that I keep McAfee on, just so they are not all the same. Just my personal experiences, but I've had way more headaches with McAfee and some other utilities on the desktop.

    I'm more interested in whether Antiviral products are needed on a WM device and how they've worked for actual users.

    If Norton Smartphone Security is a bloat, I'd like to hear that from someone who actually used it. It's hard to find reviews of the product from people who have actually used it. So I'll withhold judgement on its performance.

    If the product actually is useful, I have no problem with the asking price.

    Seems there is not a real "need" for it yet, but it's likely the day will come.

    It would be nice if some WM site actually tried it for a full review.
  5. #5  
    Well honestly... what's the problem with a virus on your phone? other than the problem of having information / identity stolen, there isn't that much of a problem as i see it... i don't keep any financial data on my phone except the routing number for my bank (and i memorized my acct. number)
    if a virus makes it unstable, just hard reset... i keep all the cabs to install stuff on my card and with exchange, i'm only about 5 minutes away from a hard reset and having all my contacts/calendar/email back...

    i would think that the easiest way for a virus to get onto your phone would be through some sort of email exploit and for those with exchange and a server based antivirus, that's not really an issue... i can't imagine any malicious snopping program written in the .net framework, let alone something that stands a chance accidentally running on windows mobile...
    like others, i guess that eventually there may be a need, but i think that with mobile devices especially, the priority will be to keep data out of the hands of someone in possesion of the device itself versus someone pulling data out of it remotely. programs that promote on device encryption and security policies are a much better investment if you're really concerned about the safety of your device.
    Treo 800w 8/08
    Nokia N800
    previously: Treo 700wx 12/06, Sprint 6700 3/06; Treo 650 11/04; Treo 600 1/04 (gone); Samsung i500 (gone); Hitachi G1000 11/03 (gone); Nokia 7110 5/00(best phone ever)
  6.    #6  
    I guess the worst case scenario of some future WM virus will be, that it corrupts ActiveSync on your hand held without you knowing. Then once ActiveSync is run with the desktop, that's when it spreads and really gets ugly.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Seems there is not a real "need" for it yet, but it's likely the day will come.
    It won't come. Anti-virus isn't even needed on the desktop.

    Software developers have learned from their mistakes (well, many have). Operating Systems are being developed smarter with better care towards negligent users and with more of a sandbox architecture. If anything, I'd say you're most likely to get a virus on your phone now compared to 5-10 years from now.

    Once sane security policies are in place (Vista is a good step in this direction; OS X and Linux also have the same type of ability) anti-virus software will slowly disappear.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I guess the worst case scenario of some future WM virus will be, that it corrupts ActiveSync on your hand held without you knowing. Then once ActiveSync is run with the desktop, that's when it spreads and really gets ugly.
    Seeing how ActiveSync is a separate system from Outlook and the file system, I fail to see how a virus would even do anything once copied over.

    Syncing only involves moving around data, not executing anything. Not only would someone have to find an exploit in the ActiveSync system on the phone but they'd also have to find an exploit on the desktop version as well to get it to run and even then, if you have Vista it'll just let you know it's trying to run and you just hit cancel (unless you disabled UAC of course).

    A virus on a phone is unlikely as it's difficult to spread because of how enclosed the system is. Hell, WM 6.1 tells you if something is trying to install.
  8. chong67's Avatar
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    #8  
    Not when you use torrent and newsgroup alot. AV is a must!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    Not when you use torrent and newsgroup alot. AV is a must!
    It's only a must if you're pirating software and therefore running an executable you received from who knows where...
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Kasracer - I've heard complaints about their desktop tools for many years, but I happen to feel some of their desktop utilities are good. I really didn't want to debate that. But tools like Norton Antibot run clean and smooth without any unnecessary bloatware. I've used their desktop products for a very long time and also have a box here that I keep McAfee on, just so they are not all the same. Just my personal experiences, but I've had way more headaches with McAfee and some other utilities on the desktop.

    I'm more interested in whether Antiviral products are needed on a WM device and how they've worked for actual users.

    If Norton Smartphone Security is a bloat, I'd like to hear that from someone who actually used it. It's hard to find reviews of the product from people who have actually used it. So I'll withhold judgement on its performance.

    If the product actually is useful, I have no problem with the asking price.

    Seems there is not a real "need" for it yet, but it's likely the day will come.

    It would be nice if some WM site actually tried it for a full review.
    Why not do us the favour, buy it and let us know whether it slows down your phone or not, eh?
    I've seen this software at bestbuy and know right off the bat that it's a waste of money and a ploy by Symantec for new revenue stream. Any "smart" person who has a smartphone and understands them will know so too. I think Kaspersky makes one too.
    .....Life is But Such Sweet Sorrow.....
  11.    #11  
    Kasracer - You're just wrong, but I'll let time prove it. And I know people who without using torrent and newsgroups that still have had to deal with viruses.

    Today may not be the day for Smart phone AV software, but I do believe that day is coming.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    I think Kaspersky makes one too.
    While there may not be a need for antiviral type SW at the moment, I think the Kaspersky Mobile Security product may offer some other good benefits. I'm sure you may disagree, but thank you for mentioning the product. It also includes an Anti-Theft "clean" feature. Where if your device is stolen, you can send it an SMS with a special code and it will automatically start cleaning data categories of your choosing. Such as Contacts, inbox, documents and network settings.

    I find that feature alone to be a very good thing to have. I may actually purchase Kaspersky Mobile Security and tell you how it goes .

    They already say on their site that it is fully compatible with the Treo800w.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Kasracer - You're just wrong, but I'll let time prove it.
    Awesome argument
    In all seriousness, I didn't want to get into this kind of argument here but since you made a claim with no evidence, I am bound by the laws of the internet to continue:

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    And I know people who without using torrent and newsgroups that still have had to deal with viruses.
    Then they're either downloading pirated software and thus, have a need to run an executable or they're just running random things they get without looking.

    Viruses are very simple. They can only be executed in two ways:
    1. The user downloads the virus and runs it. This can be an exe, src, vbs or any other type of script that has the ability to run code. This typically occurs because of a user's ignorance of how the operating systems works and what the difference is between a script / binary executable file and your basic content files (not saying that's necessarily a negative things; I'm very ignorant in the field of medicine. Nobody knows everything so we're all bound to be ignorant in one thing or another).
    2. An exploit is found where code can be injected into an already running process and have that process run the virus' code or startup code. In order for this to happen, you either need to open a file that can contain something executable (i.e. Office documents can have embedded scripts while an MP3 is safe. Websites with JavaScript can also exploit the browser) or this occurs from a remote location if an application that's listening on the ports of your computer is exploitable i.e. if you're running a web server or something like that). If you have the basic Windows firewall or a router then you're basically safe from the remote location exploitation.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Today may not be the day for Smart phone AV software, but I do believe that day is coming.
    I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. You're assuming that all or most of the software developers out there are going to ignore all of the security lessons we've learned on the desktop and not apply them to a mobile device.

    Take Vista for instance. With Windows XP, by default, users are administrators so any application can run and install without the user even knowing. With Vista, you have to run as an administrator to install anything. Also with Vista, even if a virus gets on your system and injects code into an existing process, it still requires Administrator access to do many of the things that viruses do such as SendKeys or editing the Registry. OS X and Linux have similar capabilities. Our desktop processors can work to prevent applications from injecting things into other application's memory.

    Today, WM 6.1 notifies you and requires your approval before install anything. It's slowly improving in security . Many other phones won't even let you install applications or run code.

    I think it's very difficult to believe that we're going to ignore these great improvements and create the same problem in mobile devices. Then again, what do I know? I'm just a software developer...
  14.    #14  
    Kasracer - You're not the only person here who works in IT development. You are not interested in this type of software, fine, enjoy your life.

    For anyone interested, here is a freeware anti-theft option:
    RemoteTracker
    Summary: Antitheft software to track your Windows Mobile device when it was lost or stolen
    Last edited by darnell; 08/28/2008 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Removed Spybot and AirScanner, very old.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    For anyone interested, here is a freeware anti-theft option:
    RemoteTracker
    Okay, you're probably going to hate me but... I've always wondered by software like this is called anti-theft. It doesn't prevent it from being stolen so it isn't actually anti-theft.

    heh
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Okay, you're probably going to hate me but... I've always wondered by software like this is called anti-theft. It doesn't prevent it from being stolen so it isn't actually anti-theft.

    heh
    If it helps the cops get your device back, the theft has been thwarted. Making it an anti-theft device.
  17. #17  
    What about a theft-thwarting application?
  18.    #18  
    I've got Kaspersky Mobile Security (v. 7) installed and other than it not being made especially for a 320 X 320 resolution screen it looks good.

    Ran a scan or 2, they go really fast. (I know it was not necessary, but I'm testing the thing out.)

    When the auto protect is running, it uses 60 kb. That's not bad.

    The Firewall offers:
    Block all all network activities are prohibited.

    Medium all incoming traffic is blocked, outgoing traffic of only regular applications is allowed.

    Low only incoming traffic is blocked.

    Disabled all network activities are allowed.
    I put it on Medium and did a Mobile Speed Test, my results are the same when using EVDO Rev A as without a Firewall (about 850kbs), but WAY SLOWER when using WiFi. I mean the WiFi speed went down to about 88kbs, when I'm used to seeing the 1200kbs range for WiFi. So I disabled the firewall and EVDO Rev A was still the same (about 850kbs) and WiFi went back up to the normal 1200kbs range. I have not seen a hard pressing need for the firewall, so I'm keeping it disabled. There is no way to tell it what is "regular" regarding applications, but it did not block IE or Skyfire.

    When I test the Block and Clean Anti-Theft modules I'll report back with results.
  19. #19  
    Excellent thread. I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts on if following is possible and should I be worried about it:

    - While browsing some website or while installing/running a freeware (which unknown to me is a trojan), key logger gets installed and starts running as one of the "processes" (i.e. it does not show up in 'application list' in task manager')
    - And when I enter a password for a website (http or https), it is logged for the keylogger.
    - And at a later stage, key logger sends out the passwords, etc to whereever it was programmed to do.
  20.    #20  
    bkdude - Since it involves you permitting something to be installed, it seems possible.

    And that's the thing, we're not going to only installed specially MS approved software. I've already got a ton of applications on mine that WM told me didn't have any specially approved signature as I was installing them. They're clean, but you never know when somehow a dirty one might creep in.

    I saw a comment online of someone claiming a scenario like you mentioned occurred to someone they knew, except it didn't involve a key logger. Just and installed application sending details from their device via SMS. They claim a certain Mobile anti virus program thwarted it all, but I don't know how reliable that claim is.
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