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  1. chong67's Avatar
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    #281  
    I like my 800w. It grip well. Keypad is just nice for my big hand.

    I like the D pad. You can program it to zip thru fast or slow. I dont like the rolling ball on the BB.

    I dont like shiny and flexi phones. Never like shiny LCD screen also.

    No problem with battery. I work in office, so just plug it in. In my car, I just plug into my adapter.

    Its only going to get better when Palm work it out and update the ROM.
  2. willysp's Avatar
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    #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    ...No problem with battery. I work in office, so just plug it in. In my car, I just plug into my adapter....
    Understood - sounds like you don't really use your battery, so not surprising you don't have a problem with it
  3. #283  
    Phone works great. it is solid.

    However, very dissapointed in the battery life. this phone is meant to be used frequently, games, music, internet, youtube, navigation, tv, camera, etc.

    but the battery is not upto par. also, my last gripe is the headphone adapter. it definately should have been included. this is a top of the line phone ($599). a little adapter to charge and listen to music shouldve been included.

    but other than that, a solid phone. the bright side, both of the above issues can be solved
    I cant remember what PDA's/PPC/Smartphone/Windows Mobile devices that i have had in the past. But simply put, i got the Palm M100 many years ago and was hooked. Since then, i have been upgrading in search for the latest and greatest device. and yes still searching
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    I'm not saying that it's not important. I'm saying that people are arguing based on a technicality, when for most of them, it doesn't even matter at all. They're arguing for no reason. I personally would not be mad about the GPS, because it doesn't matter to me.

    Having said that, even still, it's perfectly understandable that people are mad. After all, the device does not work as advertised, whether they use the feature or not. However, Palm and Sprint have said they're working on a solution. Repeatedly crying about it doesn't help anything. It just makes for an annoying person. Just sit patiently, and wait until Palm fixes it. Is that so hard to do?
    Look, I can appreciate your point of view but I do not think you appreciate the point of view of others. It is patronizing to call it a technicality and use terms like crying.

    a) I might not care if MP3 did not work and might consider it a technicality. Would it be fair to call you a whiner and or a cryer if the mp3 did not work?

    b) Palm obviously thought it was a selling point for them to have specifically promoted "Standalone GPS" very high up on the feature list

    c) Garmin and TomTom have been in the market of supplying wm software to a very large user base of WM devices including smartphones.

    d) there are extensive discussions on mobile boards such as this about buying seperate BT receivers for prior WM devices.

    e) the great majority of advertised features of the 800w are in fact Network independent. Standalone means that as well. An analogous situation would be of WiFi had been tied to first establishing a Sprint connection.

    f) I also have a problem with this "cyring" and "whining" terminology. People are stridently advocating a fix. There are people all over, including expedience posters incorrectly stating it does work as standalone. Half a dozen experienced posters stated this and it is false. that is the reason for the repetition.

    g) experienced posters have also repeatedly wrongly (even just slightly above on this thread!) stated that the standalone is conditioned on the palm site and then referencing a footnote that is infact for the aGPS which palm itself advertises as a separate feature.

    f) in terms of waiting for a fix keep in mind the answer could be a fix, or it could be no fix while the 30 days to get out of a contract expires. We even have some of the same posters alternately stated: get rid of it before 30 days, and wait for a fix. We know the problem, which is that palm support gave different answers in the first 30 days. everything from there is no problem, to it will maybe fixed, to it can't be fixed.


    What do you think of palms user of the term "autonomous" in its pre release pitches to review sites, and its official spec of "Standalone" was for?

    They did it to capture a portion of the market for which this was important. Palm did not think this was marginal technicality.
  5. #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Battery life was fully described in the specs, I knew what I was getting before I purchased. I'm around an outlet most of the time, I could care less if the 800w only got 2 hours of talk time, if that was the documented battery life I'd probably still have one. If battery life is an issue for you, consider the specs carefully before your next purchase.
    I mostly agree with this, but I would bet that it is Palm wished they had gone with 1500 maH here. They killed a lot of their market which unlike you would expect to have a handset last a full long business day. Each person is different but a larger portion of potential customers would be making it through a full day without. If yo have seen current 1500 ma batteries the downside would have been a minuscule the weight volume increase.

    Certainly the battery life was fully described, certainly (unlike the absent standalone GPS) every buyer would have a sense well within 30 days.

    But that doesn't mean all the reviewers and users who have said the battery life is terrible, and seriously mars the 800w utility for business people, are making a moot point or "whining." It is is the most broadly stated opinion about the 800w on CNET, including among the positive reviews!
  6. #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Look, I can appreciate your point of view but I do not think you appreciate the point of view of others. It is patronizing to call it a technicality and use terms like crying.

    a) I might not care if MP3 did not work and might consider it a technicality. Would it be fair to call you a whiner and or a cryer if the mp3 did not work?

    b) Palm obviously thought it was a selling point for them to have specifically promoted "Standalone GPS" very high up on the feature list

    c) Garmin and TomTom have been in the market of supplying wm software to a very large user base of WM devices including smartphones.

    d) there are extensive discussions on mobile boards such as this about buying seperate BT receivers for prior WM devices.

    e) the great majority of advertised features of the 800w are in fact Network independent. Standalone means that as well. An analogous situation would be of WiFi had been tied to first establishing a Sprint connection.

    f) I also have a problem with this "cyring" and "whining" terminology. People are stridently advocating a fix. There are people all over, including expedience posters incorrectly stating it does work as standalone. Half a dozen experienced posters stated this and it is false. that is the reason for the repetition.

    g) experienced posters have also repeatedly wrongly (even just slightly above on this thread!) stated that the standalone is conditioned on the palm site and then referencing a footnote that is infact for the aGPS which palm itself advertises as a separate feature.

    f) in terms of waiting for a fix keep in mind the answer could be a fix, or it could be no fix while the 30 days to get out of a contract expires. We even have some of the same posters alternately stated: get rid of it before 30 days, and wait for a fix. We know the problem, which is that palm support gave different answers in the first 30 days. everything from there is no problem, to it will maybe fixed, to it can't be fixed.


    What do you think of palms user of the term "autonomous" in its pre release pitches to review sites, and its official spec of "Standalone" was for?

    They did it to capture a portion of the market for which this was important. Palm did not think this was marginal technicality.
    I can appreciate other points of view just fine, thank you. I just don't appreciate it when people won't shut up about something that doesn't even affect them anyway. It's one thing to keep it to the threads that are made for that purpose, but it seems that every thread here somehow turns into a "the GPS is not standalone, and therefore this phone sucks" thread.

    I'm not saying go buy a dedicated GPS unit (although I would think that if you're routinely hiking in some unknown forest, you'd probably get something more sophisticated...besides...would the battery life even be enough to lead you out of the depths of that forest?), or a bluetooth receiver. That's not the solution. However, I don't think posting the same thing over and over again on these forums is a solution either. Quite frankly...Palm doesn't care what this forum thinks. I'll even go as far as betting that no one extremely important at Palm even reads this forums. My bet is that over 95% of the consumers who bought the 800w don't care about standalone GPS, or even know what the difference is. The way I see it, there are three options for solutions:

    1. Somebody gets lost in the Amazon, tries to find their way out with the 800w, doesn't work. When they eventually get home, they sue Palm for false advertising.

    2. Somebody starts a class action lawsuit.

    3. Palm issues a patch to fix the problem, since they already know about it, and are working on a fix.

    Which one do you think is the best solution? The first one is just a matter of chance. The second one would probably just slow down the process of a fix.

    It takes time to develop software, and it can be even worse to be able to squash bugs within software that you think you already finished developing. Give Palm some time. They seem to think they can fix it...give them a chance.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  7. #287  
    Besides the battery thing, my issue with the 800w is the call volume. With or without the bluetooth. It's horrible. What good is a phone if you can't hear when making a call? Sitting in the office or in the car, it's fine. Add any kind of background noise and it's nearly impossible to hear anyone. The phone is great as a "PDA", but as a phone, it's terrible. If the 850 has a better call volume, might have to make the switch.
  8. #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    I can appreciate other points of view just fine, thank you. I just don't appreciate it when people won't shut up about something that doesn't even affect them anyway.
    ...

    I'm not saying go buy a dedicated GPS unit (although I would think that if you're routinely hiking in some unknown forest, you'd probably get something more sophisticated...besides...would the battery life even be enough to lead you out of the depths of that forest?), or a bluetooth receiver. That's not the solution.
    ....

    1. Somebody gets lost in the Amazon, tries to find their way out with the 800w, doesn't work. When they eventually get home, they sue Palm for false advertising.

    2. Somebody starts a class action lawsuit.

    3. Palm issues a patch to fix the problem, since they already know about it, and are working on a fix.

    Which one do you think is the best solution? The first one is just a matter of chance. The second one would probably just slow down the process of a fix.

    It takes time to develop software, and it can be even worse to be able to squash bugs within software that you think you already finished developing. Give Palm some time. They seem to think they can fix it...give them a chance.
    That is exaclty what one means by "other points of view":
    That is the second time the absurd example of the "Amazon" has been mentioned. Don't you mean over 95% of the cities on the planet where it won't work as advertised and not just the "Amazon"? Do you think the world is made of New York and the Amazon?

    The "Depths of the forest crack" is another example. How about navigating around the olympic village in Bejing, or Athens? how about A few hours walk around Sydney?

    How About using your POI file on Garmin to find and walk to a WiFi hotspot in London so you can do some work on your 800W?

    Again on a fix, Palm has a horrible record on fixes. Those of us with a lot of Palm devices have been really really pleasantly surprised at the fixes, although we now know they were probably promulgated as a result of Verizon testing.

    These answers like "Amazon" and "forest" are the type of very small worldview answer that have made the discussions contentious.

    An exact analogy would be if WiFi required a CDMA handshake and if someone questions that, answering: "how often do you need wifi in the Amazon"?

    Or if 800w MP3 were disabled away from Sprint networks, if one were to answer, why not get an iPod? Or: "won't playing it shorten your battery life."
  9. #289  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    That is exaclty what one means by "other points of view":
    That is the second time the absurd example of the "Amazon" has been mentioned. Don't you mean over 95% of the cities on the planet where it won't work as advertised and not just the "Amazon"? Do you think the world is made of New York and the Amazon?

    The "Depths of the forest crack" is another example. How about navigating around the olympic village in Bejing, or Athens? how about A few hours walk around Sydney?

    How About using your POI file on Garmin to find and walk to a WiFi hotspot in London so you can do some work on your 800W?

    Again on a fix, Palm has a horrible record on fixes. Those of us with a lot of Palm devices have been really really pleasantly surprised at the fixes, although we now know they were probably promulgated as a result of Verizon testing.

    These answers like "Amazon" and "forest" are the type of very small worldview answer that have made the discussions contentious.

    An exact analogy would be if WiFi required a CDMA handshake and if someone questions that, answering: "how often do you need wifi in the Amazon"?

    Or if 800w MP3 were disabled away from Sprint networks, if one were to answer, why not get an iPod? Or: "won't playing it shorten your battery life."
    Quoted for truth.
  10. #290  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    That is exaclty what one means by "other points of view":
    That is the second time the absurd example of the "Amazon" has been mentioned. Don't you mean over 95% of the cities on the planet where it won't work as advertised and not just the "Amazon"? Do you think the world is made of New York and the Amazon?

    The "Depths of the forest crack" is another example. How about navigating around the olympic village in Bejing, or Athens? how about A few hours walk around Sydney?

    How About using your POI file on Garmin to find and walk to a WiFi hotspot in London so you can do some work on your 800W?

    Again on a fix, Palm has a horrible record on fixes. Those of us with a lot of Palm devices have been really really pleasantly surprised at the fixes, although we now know they were probably promulgated as a result of Verizon testing.

    These answers like "Amazon" and "forest" are the type of very small worldview answer that have made the discussions contentious.

    An exact analogy would be if WiFi required a CDMA handshake and if someone questions that, answering: "how often do you need wifi in the Amazon"?

    Or if 800w MP3 were disabled away from Sprint networks, if one were to answer, why not get an iPod? Or: "won't playing it shorten your battery life."
    Considering I don't live in, or anywhere near, either New York or the Amazon, I'm very well aware the world consists of more than that.

    At this point in time, no matter what hypothetical situation you are in that lacks Sprint service, you're not going to be able to find your way out using the GPS on your 800w...simply because Palm has not fixed it yet. According to you, they probably won't ever fix it. So why waste space and bandwidth on this forum, and your own time, complaining about something that you don't even think will be fixed? If it's that important...do something about it. (I'm not just talking to you, but to everyone that's been complaining for a while.) Start that class action lawsuit. Start an email/letter writing campaign to Palm. Stand outside Sprint stores and convince people not to buy the 800w. Do something to get noticed. Palm is a business, and their purpose is to make money. If they need to fix something in their products or their business style in order to make money, they'll do it. In this particular case, since they're already working on it, they'll do it faster.

    Palm may not release updates very often, but they do seem to fix the things that affect the functionality of their products. They released the Voice Command over Bluetooth patch just days after the 800w was released. They saw that people were having problems syncing and charging their batteries, so they released a patch for that just last week. The first of those is something that was anticipated in the phone, and the second is a core functionality bug. The standalone GPS is a mixture of the two, so I highly doubt that Palm is just going to leave it alone.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  11. klmsu19's Avatar
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    #291  
    There sits the underlying issue. Complaining about people complaining is no less of a detriment to bandwidth or forum space then the original complaint, in fact is just doubling it.

    This is, afterall, a message forum is it not? People discuss, vent, state their opinions, etc etc. You have every right to not read a thread if you dont like whats being said. But its quite hypocritical to tell people not to waste forum space and bandwidth in an additional post every time in reply. As with the gps situation, thats solving nothing.

    People are angry and feel wronged and want to discuss it, which there's no rules against doing. Obviously this is not the right thread to do so, unless its about the Pro's standalone vs the 800 missing it which is on topic. If its blatantly off-topic report the post, simple as that.

    Its the small group of people trying to police the forums who are making twice as bad as the small group of people complaining in the wrong threads. Let alone those people are using harassing language like calling the people criers and whiners. No reason to be a bigger detriment to the community than the 2 or 3 people who spam the boards. Theres no good reason anyone can give as to why they shouldnt fix or someone shouldnt need it, i think everyone agrees with that. Yet people continue to argue like its not a big deal, well if its not to the person then great, it is to some and theres no reason to discount that opinion because the certain individual doesnt or wont ever use it. After all, no carrier has anywhere near 100% saturation even in the US let alone the argument using it abroad. Not everyone lives or travels in Sprint coverage all the time so it is an issue for some.

    Now i will stop wasting forum space myself saying that.
    Last edited by klmsu19; 09/01/2008 at 10:50 AM.
  12. #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by klmsu19 View Post
    But its quite hypocritical to tell people not to waste forum space and bandwidth in an additional post every time in reply. As with the gps situation, thats solving nothing.
    However, at least those posting about the complainers are directly addressing the persons involved. Those continually posting over and over and over again about Palm aren't in any way addressing Palm - they're just making the forum experience far less enjoyable for those who don't want to wade through dreck every time they go on the boards.

    It would be sad if the trolls prevent folks from coming here - it hardly seems worth trying to sift through new posts to find some conversation that's worthwhile. I keep hoping that there will be a change in the tone of this board, but I'm not seeing it.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by klmsu19 View Post
    This is, afterall, a message forum is it not? People discuss, vent, state their opinions, etc etc. You have every right to not read a thread if you dont like whats being said. But its quite hypocritical to tell people not to waste forum space and bandwidth in an additional post every time in reply. As with the gps situation, thats solving nothing.
    Exactly. Thank you.

    I actually think F4D has some great posts on other topics. I just think throwing aorund terms like "Amazon" and implying people who want promoted Standalone want it to find their way out of a jungle is unreasonable and a flip response.

    F4D may use wifi. Using the logic presented, one could say if it had been crippled to depended on CDMA:
    "At this point in time, no matter what hypothetical situation you are in that lacks Sprint service, you are not going to need WiFi help you out."

    Huh?
  14. klmsu19's Avatar
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    #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    However, at least those posting about the complainers are directly addressing the persons involved. Those continually posting over and over and over again about Palm aren't in any way addressing Palm - they're just making the forum experience far less enjoyable for those who don't want to wade through dreck every time they go on the boards.

    It would be sad if the trolls prevent folks from coming here - it hardly seems worth trying to sift through new posts to find some conversation that's worthwhile. I keep hoping that there will be a change in the tone of this board, but I'm not seeing it.
    i agree with you but complaining about the complainers isnt making the forums any better or more enjoyable, just as much as complaining about the gps isnt making Palm fix it. You know? Let the mods do their job, if they think it should be moved or is off topic theyll handle it. Complaining about the complainers is not making the board any more readable or enjoyable and knowledgeable people are leaving. Think about it this way: sure it sucks when theres a few posts over and over, but when people then respond to that with rude comments about whining and crying, does it not double the # of posts and clutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Exactly. Thank you.

    I actually think F4D has some great posts on other topics. I just think throwing aorund terms like "Amazon" and implying people who want promoted Standalone want it to find their way out of a jungle is unreasonable and a flip response.

    F4D may use wifi. Using the logic presented, one could say if it had been crippled to depended on CDMA:
    "At this point in time, no matter what hypothetical situation you are in that lacks Sprint service, you are not going to need WiFi help you out."

    Huh?
    i agree it wasn't per say directed to him, it was more a general statement about how silly complaining about complainers is because its just doubling the junk on the boards and insulting people who are saying valid points. i know for a fact Vibrant and Nx, even though they have valid gripes against the 800, are very knowledgeable people and have been around forums as long as I have at least (for years) with tons of WM experience. Theres no reason anyone should be telling others if you dont like it return it, or if you dont own it dont post here. Thats the least friendly and "community" thing on these boards occurring over even the overposting about gps, and even less solving the problem than people posting gripes about it. Its becoming a silly circle of hypocritical people doing the same thing theyre preaching against.
    Last edited by klmsu19; 09/01/2008 at 11:07 AM.
  15. #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Exactly. Thank you.

    I actually think F4D has some great posts on other topics. I just think throwing aorund terms like "Amazon" and implying people who want promoted Standalone want it to find their way out of a jungle is unreasonable and a flip response.

    F4D may use wifi. Using the logic presented, one could say if it had been crippled to depended on CDMA:
    "At this point in time, no matter what hypothetical situation you are in that lacks Sprint service, you are not going to need WiFi help you out."

    Huh?
    Please don't twist my words around. I never said you wouldn't NEED GPS. I said you wouldn't be ABLE TO USE GPS.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  16. #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    Please don't twist my words around. I never said you wouldn't NEED GPS. I said you wouldn't be ABLE TO USE GPS.
    And if you wouldn't be able to use WIFI outside of the US you wouldn't be upset?
  17. #297  
    We have all been given a warning by the mods...

    In case it was missed....

    Hi all -

    A lot of messages have been coming in from members about how things have gotten a bit too testy in the 800w and Treo Pro forums. I agree.

    Just a reminder to read the Forum Guidelines. The most important and relevant part here: no personal attacks.

    It's perfectly legitimate to think that the Treo 800w is a good device, even stacked up against the Treo Pro. I say this having actually *used* both devices. The 800w actually performs a bit more quickly in my testing despite the slower processor -- this is most likely due to better 'under-the-hood' customizations. The 800w's keyboard is also superior. Also, yes, it's much better to have physical 'soft buttons' than to not.

    Of course, I give the edge to the Pro because of its flush screen, thinness, and 3.5mm headset jack.

    The 800w definitely has some unforeseen bugs (Hi aGPS, how are you today? Have you met Mr. Charging Bug?) that are giving us fits. We've seen problems like these in the past with Palm and having used most of the other smartphones available in the US, I can tell you weird things like this pop up on every device. It's legitimate to point these issues out and try to figure out fixes, but it's just as legitimate to love the 800w despite these flaws. Seriously, it's not weird to call the Treo 800w "the best CDMA Treo ever." It would be weird if it *wasn't* the best CDMA Treo ever.

    The bottom line is we can discuss the differences, pros, cons, etc between the two without devolving into vitriol. I hate being a cop and I *really* hate having to look at a borderline post and have to decide whether or not it crosses the line from "passionate argument" to "personal attack." I've been having to do that a lot lately. More importantly, so has our wonderful team of moderators.

    The good news is making it easier on our moderators also makes it easier on the community at large. So please, even though we're all passionate about Treos, no need to let that translate into going after somebody personally, not even a little bit.

    (moving this to the TreoCentral forum)

    - Dieter
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=170671
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  18. #298  
    Because the release of the new HTC was delayed, I went into Sprint and replaced the Treo 800W and the car charger (just in case it was part of the problem). I then got on a plane and flew to New Mexico on business. I also installed the software for the charging issue. The new (the third for those of you who are counting) froze during the 60 minute flight and had to be rebooted. I drove 600 miles over the next two days with the phone plugged into the new car charger because I was using GPS. Twice the phone totally discharged while plugged into the car charger and refused to recharge so it was totally dead and useless for on hour on one occasion and for an hour and forty five minutes on the other occasion. I know how much you guys hate any criticism of the Treo here but since this if the first time I've ever had a Treo I came here for help. I don't understand how anyone uses these things or why they are worth the trouble. If this phone did everything it was supposed to do AND was reliable, it would be the best phone I've ever owned. If only . . . .
  19. #299  
    ocbizlaw, where did you get the car charger?

    I'm using a Moto one from Radio Shack and have used GPS with Live Search (so it was pulling network data over RevA the whole time, which is a huge power hog), plus checked my email with the screen at 100% and hat a net gain for power. A few others have confirmed the same (Hannip, Darnell)

    The only problem here is it sounds like the car charger is just not putting out enough power for the phone. Are you using a splicer on the car charger?

    btw, this should probably be in another thread

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  20. #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    But that doesn't mean all the reviewers and users who have said the battery life is terrible, and seriously mars the 800w utility for business people, are making a moot point or "whining." It is is the most broadly stated opinion about the 800w on CNET, including among the positive reviews!
    I'm sure owners of Hummers are pretty upset with the vehicle's gas mileage at the moment, so much so that GM is shutting down Hummer production. But each buyer knew what they were getting or had access to the information before making their purchase.

    With the Treo 800w, for each passing day the available information only grows with each additional review. But new buyers are still coming up with the complaint as if it's news.

    I'm not saying the complaints about battery life have zero merit, because certainly like Hummer, if you don't meet the needs of the broad market you're toast. But I am saying at this point, complaints about Treo 800w battery life are like going to a Hummer message board to complain about gas mileage, everybody knew who wanted to know and stating the obvious is highly rhetorical.

    I never bought a Hummer and among many reasons gas mileage is one. I like a vehicle with the ability to do about 30MPG or better on the highway. So my point, is that those buying a device should study up before making the purchase. That saves them a lot of headache. Personally speaking, I'm happy with the Treo 800w.

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