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  1. #221  
    Well the treo pro has never been announced to come out for sprint so no but will be taking my 800w back anytime as I can wait for the HTC Diamond.
  2. #222  
    Haha...I don't even have one yet.

    Frankly, I personally see this as the same as those people that go into every thread and complain about the battery life.

    You're right about the loudest being heard first, though...but if they really want to be heard, then a class-action lawsuit would be the best way. Who knows...maybe Cel's buddy can get something rolling.

    I'd love to see the issue fixed, just because I know that when I do buy one, I want one that works as advertised. While I wouldn't complain, I would still be a little upset knowing that I have a reason to complain.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  3. #223  
    I hate to burst y'all's bubble, but I'm pretty sure Palm doesn't consider this a priority. It just doesn't actually affect enough people to warrant many developer-hours. In fact, if the news I saw today about a massive order from Palm to HTC for CDMA Treo Pros is true, the 800w may be abandoned as a stop-gap. That's been Palm's policy for a long time: want bug fixes, buy a new device.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post

    This really was a misleading action on Palm's part and they better hope these folks stick to just complaining online, because if they get quite, somebody might call an attorney.
    I'm sorry, but I've lived with this same tempest in a teapot with the 600, 650, 700, 755, and now the 800w. It goes like this:

    - "I'm unhappy"
    - "Me, too!"
    - "This is truly the move that will cause Palm to die a horrible death."
    - "Let's all call Palm and/or Sprint"
    - "No, let's call an attorney and file a class action suit!"
    - "I have a better idea - let's all file small claims suits. We'll nibble them to death".

    Seriously, do a search in any forum for "class action suit". You'll find this conversation about buzzing in the 600, memory of the 650, the delay in the 700p, etc.

    My suggestion, as someone who's lived a looooong time: in the end, it's not all that important - if you're in the 30 day window, then just turn it over if you're not happy. If it's past the 30 days, then sell it on eBay. Otherwise you'll just continue to be miserable about something that is, in the grand scheme of things, just a phone.
    Last edited by Bujin; 08/26/2008 at 03:09 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  5. #225  
    Well Freak4Dell, when it comes to battery life, I've been quick to point out that the device works within the documented specs. And mine when I've tested was on pace for over the documented 200 hours of standby time. So those who complain about battery life get a big RTM from me .

    But this GPS issue is different, it fails to meet the documented specs.

    And for you folks claiming complaints don't move Palm and they just make people wait for another device. You have not been Treo owners for long.

    I still have my SimpleTech 128MB SD card from Palm and you who were around back then know why.

    When the Treo 650 was released, there were issues with space, that went outside the bounds of documented specifications. There were so many complaints, that Palm sent all who asked a free SD card AND later patched the device. But there were SO MANY COMPLAINTS they sent the free SD cards even before patching the device.

    So complaints do move Palm and they do patch old devices. This is a major problem, because it's easy lawsuit bait. And it's a whole lot cheaper to devote some developers to building a patch, than the costs of a loss in court. I think Palm will work to resolve the issue. But I only base that many years of owning various Palm devices .
  6. #226  
    Bujin - Palm avoids lawsuits by patching things to meet the specs. But don't assume a class action can't and won't happen. There are been plenty of successful class action lawsuits against other corporations over things that were way cheaper in price.

    But I think they will patch and I hope Palm patches this, so everyone has a device that meets specs.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Bujin - Palm avoids lawsuits by patching things to meet the specs. But don't assume a class action can't and won't happen. There are been plenty of successful class action lawsuits against other corporations over things that were way cheaper in price.

    But I think they will patch and I hope Palm patches this, so everyone has a device that meets specs.
    I'd prefer to assume that a class action can't and won't happen.

    Well, more precisely, it can but it won't. Because, when you get right down to it, nobody here will do it. It's easier just to continue complaining and complaining. I remember a VERY similar discussion a year ago, regarding the 700p: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...71#post1317671
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin View Post
    I hate to burst y'all's bubble, but I'm pretty sure Palm doesn't consider this a priority. It just doesn't actually affect enough people to warrant many developer-hours. In fact, if the news I saw today about a massive order from Palm to HTC for CDMA Treo Pros is true, the 800w may be abandoned as a stop-gap. That's been Palm's policy for a long time: want bug fixes, buy a new device.
    That could easily be for Verizon though. I doubt Sprint would release the Treo pro any time soon, when the 800w is not even 2 months old. At the soonest, it might be 6 months, which would make it January or February before we see a Treo Pro on Sprint.
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'd prefer to assume that a class action can't and won't happen.

    Well, more precisely, it can but it won't. Because, when you get right down to it, nobody here will do it. It's easier just to continue complaining and complaining. I remember a VERY similar discussion a year ago, regarding the 700p: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...71#post1317671
    I don't find what you cited to be "very similar" at all. We are talking about a mis-documented feature out of the box. Not a software glitch.

    Did you get a free 128MB SD card when Palm was giving them out to all who asked after issues with space on the Treo 650?
  10. #230  
    My point wasn't that the issue was the same, but that the usual nonsense about class actions came up. And, as with this issue, nobody bothered to do more than complain.

    Unless someone wants to put their money where their keyboard is, and pony up the cash to start a suit (and NOBODY here will do it), no action will result.

    Folks can complain and spam the boards all they want, but idle threats just make people look silly.
  11. #231  
    Bujin, neither you or I desire a lawsuit, but the GPS issue is far more ripe for one than a bad SW patch. An attorney would be far more willing with the GPS issue.
  12. #232  
    Palm has a comparison page of their own, where you can compare the Treo 800w and Treo Pro features side by side.

    Is the BT on the Treo 800w superior to that of the Treo Pro? The side by side comparison page seems to indicate it and the product spec pages seems to show even more advantages for the Treo 800w regarding BT.
  13. #233  
    I doubt it's better. I don't see why they would go a step backwards in the Treo Pro, especially after they supposedly put considered every little detail in that phone.
    a740 --> a900 --> Katana --> a900 --> a900m --> M1 --> a900m --> PPC6700 --> a900m--> 8400 --> a900m --> Treo 700wx --> Treo 800w
  14. #234  
    Yea, I'm finding other sources outside of Palm that received Treo Pro information and claim it's about the same BT tech as the Treo 800w.

    The side by side comparison on Palm's page really helps to show that both devices are pretty much the same.
  15. #235  
    After seeing the full review of the Treo Pro, I don't want it.

    Never mind anything about hypothetical scenarios of Sprint calling me with a deal to give me one for $50 (or $25) + trade of my 800w. At this point, Sprint would have to pay me instead of me paying them. I don't want a Treo Pro. If both were on sale at the same time knowing what I know, I'd buy the 800w.

    I respect all of you who prefer the Treo Pro, but it's not for me.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin View Post
    Do you actually need it? Or are you just griping because of a technicality? How does the requirement for a cellular signal actually impact you personally?
    Yes I travel a lot, including out of the country. Most of us who do so and have CDMA simply have a few dumb unlocked euro band GSM's around and grab a sim for and/or in the country of destination. You can do this at 90% of airports in Europe and be up and running for about $20 and pay nothing for incoming calls.

    So I researched quite a bit for a pda phone that had both WiFi and Standalone GPS. Data on a prepaid sim (or even a US based sim in Europoe) is murderous expensive. Free wifi is as easy (actually easier) to come by in European cities as in the US. Being abl to use the GPS when out for a stroll in an unfamiliar city was a serious issue. I had been using handlheld GPS units but they are just as big as my PDA.

    I would guess a very small percentage of people are using voice command. would it be reasonable for those of who could care less about voice command, if Palm hadn't issue a patch to fix it, to say "really what are you griping about"? Each of us has different feature sets we are interested in. Standalone GPS is promoted prominently by Palm. GPS is an international standard. I have had a half a dozen devices they are never tied to a country's system.

    I like my 800W. I intend to keep it. I see nothing wrong with advocating stridently a fix for a feature I expected, was advertised, and I wish to use.

    Jeff, with all goodwill, I would not be making the statement you to me back to you about a feature listed in the top ten features by Palm itself, but not working as indicated, if that feature was unimportant to me.

    I also think people ought to be concerned generally with the slippage of definitions and the locking out of features without connection to the provider. A lot of people may have iPods and not really care about playing MP3s. What if playing MP3s was somehow tied to having a Sprint signal? Some would say, as said here on this issue, "well how often are you out of Sprint coverage area?" Some might say, as has been said, "well you are better off with a dedicated device"? Consider that please.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin View Post
    That makes sense, but I have to wonder how many people are going to have the locally stored maps for that to make a difference. If you're using Google Maps or Live Search, no data connection means no maps, either. What good is a GPS position dot sitting in the middle of a chessboard?

    I'm just saying that from a practical standpoint, I doubt this is really a major issue.
    I don't but many people do geocaching all the time (no maps). In my case I own third party software.
  18. #238  
    On a related matter, the whole idea of having WiFi was to be able to make data connections without being tied to Sprint's network. It's not unreasonable to desire the same with GPS, when Palm advertised a GPS system that would be standalone and assisted. Reviews show the Treo Pro is stand alone and assisted GPS, I don't want a Treo Pro, but I'd like the device I purchased to work as advertised. Even if it's a feature I don't need yet.

    There are times I attempt to make a Sprint data connection and it fails, but WiFi works. Similar with GPS, when I can't make a Sprint data connection I'd still like the ability to use the GPS if I choose to.

    I think Aero is correct to mention we should be concerned about:
    ...the slippage of definitions and the locking out of features without connection to the provider.
    Providers like AOL once tried locking users to their system for services like e-mail. It didn't work out well for them.

    When using a device, I don't desire to feel that I "need" the provider of data services for every feature, when certain features (like GPS and WiFi) are supposed to be native to the device I purchased.

    If Palm/Sprint wanted locked down GPS in the Treo 800w, they should have said that in their advertising instead of misleading the public.
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    It's not unreasonable to desire the same with GPS, when Palm advertised a GPS system that would be standalone and assisted.
    darnell, with all due respect this is a straw-man argument.

    there is not one single poster who has ever said that
    • This is okay
    • Palm did nothing wrong
    • Palm/Sprint should not fix or address this
    • It's unreasonable to expect GPS to work as advertised

    The only difference here is for some it's not that big a deal, which is why you only see a handful of users concerned about it/making a ruckus.

    Trying to convince others (myself included) that we should be outraged by this is going to be futile (I have other concerns in the world that are more serious, so while I agree in principal, I'm not here to fight everyone's fight for them. Sorry, but it's still just a phone.).

    But as I've said before, posting on a message board won't change anything. People should return their devices and get their money back or at least engage in some real action--I mean no one has even started the usual online petition yet (!), or a letter writing campaign. Has anyone even posted at BAW yet?

    The answer is 'no'. All talk, no action.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/27/2008 at 03:44 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20. #240  
    Malatesta - There is always plenty of talk before more action is taken.

    Personally, I'm not in current need of stand alone GPS, so of course I'm not going to act as far as someone such as Aero and others will needing stand alone GPS right now will. But give it time. The device has only been out about a month, more action will come in time.

    My only point has been to let it be known that the GPS gripe is very much a valid one. You know plenty of folks have basically desired that those upset about GPS stop voicing their displeasure with something not working as advertised. The gripe is valid (unlike the gripes about battery life when Palm made the battery life of the device clear and everyone who wanted to read could see what they were paying for), so I hope the discussion continues and that will probably lead to further action. This is usually how it works. First talk, then action.

    Personally, I take the matter of something I paid for working as advertised a bit more seriously than you might, but I guess I'll continue as I do as you continue as you do .

    I still agree that Aero is correct in saying there should be general concern about:
    ...the slippage of definitions and the locking out of features without connection to the provider.
    So I'll talk about it so long as allowed.

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