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  1. ft5117's Avatar
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       #1  
    I forgot to plug in the phone charger last night and this morning my 800w's battery was dead. I plugged in the ac adapter and it wouldn't boot up or turn on. I tried taking the battery out and putting it back in, but still didn't work after several tries. I left phone to charge and went to check my email on my laptop. 20 minutes later, the phone suddenly came to life and started beeping (text messages, email alerts, and alarm clock). I checked my text messages, dismissed the alerts, alarm, and email notification... left the phone to continue it's charge. 10 minutes later, I needed to make a phone call, but the phone was dead and unresponsive. 20 minutes later, the phone comes to life again, starts beeping with missed calls, voicemail, email, and text alerts. I'm afraid to take it off the charger, can't miss any more calls or messages, lol.


    Timeline of today's problems:
    - dead battery in the morning
    - started working after 20minutes of charging
    - battery drained on it's own, even while plugged into the charger
    - battery drops below operating voltage, stops working, won't turn on
    - battery reaches operating voltage, starts working again


    Power issues:
    1. 800w will drain the battery even when the charger is plugged in. 800w repeatedly charges the battery to 100%, then drain it down to approx. 95%, then repeats the cycle indefinitely. This is VERY bad for the battery and accelerate the wear and shortens the life of a Lithium Ion battery. This is a concern for people who invest in the pricey Seido extended battery, which I was planning on ordering when it becomes available.


    2. Even with the charger plugged in, the 800w will neither turn w/o a battery, nor operate with a dead or weak battery.

    My first 800w had the same issues I'm having with my second 800w. Others have described this similar power issue. I didn't have these problems with the 700w and 700wx I've been using for the past two and half years. I think many of us are willing to compromise, accept issue #1, and wait for a fix (if ever), but issue #2 is unacceptable. The cell phone is the first thing we reach for in urgent or emergency situations. What if it was a life or death situation and you couldn't wait 20 minutes for the phone to charge? Are there any known hacks or fixes for these power / charging issues?
  2. #2  
    If your within the 30 days then ditch it and go back to the 700. I don't say that in vein. Only mentioned so you don't get stuck with it and say I shoulda, coulda returned it within 30 days.

    My first 800 completely died like yours. Plug it into the charger and got nothing. I was waiting for the red LED. It didn't come on for about 15 minutes. Powered the device on and it went crazy with Emails, VM's, etc. Normally this phone charges quickly but this particular time it took 10 times as long. So the moral of this for me was not to let it completely die so that's what I did. Sadly enough though I could not deal with the battery issue so I ditched the 800 all together. When Palm can release a fix for this I may consider coming back to it.

    Good luck to you.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

    Nextel History From 2001-2004-> Motorola i1000-> Motorola i90c-> Motorola i95cl-> Motorola i730->Motorola i850.

    Sprint History From 2005 - Currently->Sanyo 5500-> Sanyo 5600-> Sanyo-> 7400->Sanyo 8300->Sanyo->7500-> Sanyo 9000->Sanyo 8400->Sanyo M1->PPC-6700->Treo 700wx->PPC-6800(Mogul)-> Motorola Q9C-> Treo 800w-> Curve->Treo 800w->Touch Pro->Treo Pro> Curve "M"->HTC Hero.
  3. #3  
    I haven't had those problems.

    Maybe you have *everything* turned on and the total drain is more than what it can charge? I know with wifi, bluetooth, and radio on it will drain more than 600 mA, meaning I can't charge from a USB port but it will slow the drain. GPS is also a big power hog.
  4. #4  
    I never experienced those problems either. Knock on wood {as Ed knocks on his head}.

    I use the default wall charger at night and use a cheap (Walmart bought) $10 car charger when I'm on the road.
  5. #5  
    I've had a few issues like that. If the battery is drained to nothing, when first plugging it in, it can't power up. After a few minutes though, it powers up ok. Have not had problems beyond that.

    I know that you are, but FYI for others, be sure to use power plug charger. Instruction book states that usb plugged into computer can not charge up a fully discharged battery.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    know with wifi, bluetooth, and radio on it will drain more than 600 mA, meaning I can't charge from a USB port but it will slow the drain. GPS is also a big power hog.
    Really? For me the gps seems to be less of a drain than the irda, the screen or widi. Real GSP is only a reception radio anyway.

    In any case with everthing on and used I am getting a draw of about 400 to 450 mA not 600.

    I think the user has in order of likelihood a bad battery, a problem with the micro usb in the 800 or charger. Proper liIons don't get an improvement with conditioning since if properly stored new have a 40% charge which should stay at that level for months. But it is also possible that the battery was fully discharged to null in which case the charging circuit might have a hard time. I would replace the entire kit, main unit, battery and charger through Sprint.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Really? For me the gps seems to be less of a drain than the irda, the screen or widi. Real GSP is only a reception radio anyway.

    In any case with everthing on and used I am getting a draw of about 400 to 450 mA not 600.
    Actively using GPS will drain the battery faster than anything else in my experience. I haven't measured it exactly, but I know with my el cheapo 12v car charger (which charges about as fast as the wall wart) actively using GPS it will charge pretty slowly. It'll charge, but it ain't fast at all (it is faster than that "trickle" charge you get when the phone recognizes that it has a power source plugged in but the red light doesn't come on). It's slow enough that I don't see any way that 500 A could keep up with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think the user has in order of likelihood a bad battery, a problem with the micro usb in the 800 or charger. Proper liIons don't get an improvement with conditioning since if properly stored new have a 40% charge which should stay at that level for months. But it is also possible that the battery was fully discharged to null in which case the charging circuit might have a hard time. I would replace the entire kit, main unit, battery and charger through Sprint.
    I think this is the most likely case as well.
  8. Levman's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ft5117 View Post
    This is a concern for people who invest in the pricey Seido extended battery, which I was planning on ordering when it becomes available.
    What Seidio extended battery? Have they actually announced one, or are you just assuming that they will at some point?
  9. #9  
    I totally drained the bat the other day and neither the wall charger or the car charger would get it to start taking a charge. I had to use the USB and it took quite a while to get it to turn on. Usually the wall or car charger would get it to turn on (red light) from being totally discharged after about 10 minutes or so. I had it plugged into the wall charger all night and nothing. Totally wierd.
  10. #10  
    We are assuming an extended battery is on the horizon.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Actively using GPS will drain the battery faster than anything else in my experience. I haven't measured it exactly, but I know with my el cheapo 12v car charger (which charges about as fast as the wall wart) actively using GPS it will charge pretty slowly. It'll charge, but it ain't fast at all (it is faster than that "trickle" charge you get when the phone recognizes that it has a power source plugged in but the red light doesn't come on). It's slow enough that I don't see any way that 500 A could keep up with it.
    Well I can only say that I did some quick measurements on draw and incredibly the irda seemed to draw twice as much as the GPS. This was backed up with some tests I ran on overnight standby with four nights, two with location on and two as control with it off. the difference in a ten hour period was 2.5%.

    IRDA could be inefficiently or sloppily implemented, but also irda, wifi, bluetooth are two way. your 800w is transmitting as well as receiving. With standalone GPS you only passively receive and generally they use very little power. With aGPS you are getting a few downloads but only if you have not used it in a while. That's the irony, if you turn off the gps (with the location privacy) when you turn it on then you use a lot of juice, but otherwise you don't.

    As a test I have had all radios on, used GPS, mp3 and kept the screen on playing videos and I am not drawing down but in fact getting a slight charge on USB. so that is why I am guessing the 800w maxes at about 400ma or so. Think about it, even with everything going it isn't really possible to draw down the 1150 ma battery in less then 3 hours.

    Our own poll shows many people stating they get 12 hours and more even with use. that means with the phone on and some calls, some evdo, some gps and screen lit up a portion of the time the average draw for them cannot be more than 90 ma/hour. At that rate 500 ma USB charging would be a fairly healthy 45% of the wall charger.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirk View Post
    I've had a few issues like that. If the battery is drained to nothing, when first plugging it in, it can't power up. After a few minutes though, it powers up ok. Have not had problems beyond that.
    I haven't owned an electronic device in years that didn't do this... is this really a problem?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    As a test I have had all radios on, used GPS, mp3 and kept the screen on playing videos and I am not drawing down but in fact getting a slight charge on USB. so that is why I am guessing the 800w maxes at about 400ma or so.
    Remember to that not every USB port is equal.

    I have two hubs on my home PC (well, actually 3 hubs, but that's neither here nor there), one in front and two in back. The one in front doesn't generate enough power and very slowly charges my phone, the two in back charges it very rapidly.

    I ran across a test a guy did for different Apple devices that were powered off USB. I was amazed at the range he found for supposedly "standard" USB hubs/ports, anywhere from ~300 mA supplied to over 800 mA. That's WELL out of USB spec, but who's going to enforce it?

    Even if the 800w only consumes ~400-450, if your USB port is only putting out 300 mA it's not enough to power your phone.

    Just for kicks and grins I turned on as much as I could (in call, WiFi, etc). I was able to get the current draw up to ~680 mA. I could go higher if I tried (run more stuff to eat up CPU, connect a bluetooth device, etc). Just a rough guess but I think you might be able to get up to around 800 mA. Now THAT would kill your battery life.



    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Think about it, even with everything going it isn't really possible to draw down the 1150 ma battery in less then 3 hours.

    Our own poll shows many people stating they get 12 hours and more even with use. that means with the phone on and some calls, some evdo, some gps and screen lit up a portion of the time the average draw for them cannot be more than 90 ma/hour. At that rate 500 ma USB charging would be a fairly healthy 45% of the wall charger.
    I doubt people who are getting 12 hours are using everything at once. In two minutes with EVERYTHING on I lost 4% battery life in 150 seconds (or 1.6% a minute). That means if you were really trying you could drain your battery in under an hour.

    Now no one's running that setup. Default brightness is 50%, not 100%. Very few people are talking on the phone while surfing the web via WiFi with GPS on and bluetooth enabled (though not connected).

    But I can easily see how people are getting 3 hours of use out of their phone.

    Battery life dropped another 10% just in typing up the second half of this post. And that was with the screen off and no active data usage....
  14. ft5117's Avatar
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       #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    ditch it and go back to the 700... My first 800 completely died like yours. Plug it into the charger and got nothing... So the moral of this for me was not to let it completely die...
    I can still return or exchange for a different phone, but I don't plan on going back to the 700wx. Consider the 800w's vast improvements: it has saved me a lot of time (using Windows Live and the aGPS), works GREAT with Skype, multi task w ease, run better/faster/smoother, and simply a joy to use. Once you experience such greatness, downgrading is no longer an option!



    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    I haven't had those problems.

    Maybe you have *everything* turned on and the total drain is more than what it can charge?
    I've done almost everything to conserve power. The only thing I have running is the AIM software and EVDO connecting for a few seconds every other minute. When fully charged and plugged in, the power meter shows the battery fluctuate (as in drain, recharge) from 95% to 100%.... sometimes as low as 90%. Others have reported they wake up to see their batteries draining as low as 45% (this is with the oem ac adapter/charger plugged in all night).


    Ok, here's the big question, can you turn your phone on by using just a charging cable (w/o a battery inside)?


    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    I never experienced those problems either. Knock on wood {as Ed knocks on his head}.
    Ok once again, can you turn your phone on by using just a charging cable (w/o a battery inside)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yirk View Post
    I've had a few issues like that. If the battery is drained to nothing, when first plugging it in, it can't power up.
    Instruction book states that usb plugged into computer can not charge up a fully discharged battery.
    USB cable won't charge up a fully discharged battery... wow, didn't know that, thanks for pointing that out. but this fact is still a haha.
    I'm under the impression that the internal charger isn't powerful enough, because it's not able to do the three main functions at once: charge battery, provide power to the new features (gps, Rev. A, wifi, Ir), and make phone calls at the same time. I'd go into detail, but I can't right now, need to finish this long reply. =\

    The internal power supply wasn't beefed up to meet the needs of this much higher performance 800w. If Palm were to send out replacement SMT parts, then I'd be more than glad to perform micro surgery and upgrade all the necessary parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I think the user has in order of likelihood a bad battery, a problem with the micro usb in the 800 or charger.
    Oh believe me, it's none of those problems and I'm familiar with how Lithium batteries work. Fully discharging a Lithium Ion battery will cause damage by shortening it's life and reduce it's max charge... shouldn't let your battery go below 8%. Also not a good idea to charge a battery when it's still hot (gets hot as it's draining at a high rate). That's why I occasionally take the battery out of my laptop to let it cool down... and run the laptop with just the power supply plugged in. Pretty much all laptops, all cellphones, and all electronic devices in general that I've ever owned are capable of running off the ac adapter (or other power source)... and NOT require a battery. This is the first time I've encountered a device that requires a battery inside the device AND the battery has to have enough of a charge before the phone will operate. =\


    Quote Originally Posted by Levman View Post
    What Seidio extended battery? Have they actually announced one, or are you just assuming that they will at some point?
    Yes, I read somewhere that they do plan on coming out with one of their famous, pricey extended batteries. It's an investment I'm willing to make. I've also taken steps to make sure that I'll be able to use the battery and PREVENT as much of that [b]800w-drain-recharge-indefinite-cyle-syndrome[b] as possible. lol. Here's a picture of what I'm going to use to prevent that "vicious cycle" (no pun intended, or not?).

    Description of the attached pic below:
    500ma usb power source + oem 800w data/charge cable = enought power to power the phone, but won't charge the battery. So I get to work, plug in my phone, it doesn't drain the battery, stays at the same level for as long as it's plugged in. This way, I can avoid the repeated drain/recharge cycle... thus avoiding any additional "wear & tear" on the pricey Siedio extended battery. What do you think eBag?
    Attached Images Attached Images
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ft5117 View Post
    I've done almost everything to conserve power. The only thing I have running is the AIM software and EVDO connecting for a few seconds every other minute. When fully charged and plugged in, the power meter shows the battery fluctuate (as in drain, recharge) from 95% to 100%.... sometimes as low as 90%. Others have reported they wake up to see their batteries draining as low as 45% (this is with the oem ac adapter/charger plugged in all night).
    I found that AIM *KILLED* my battery life on my 700wx. Just FWIW.


    Quote Originally Posted by ft5117 View Post
    Ok, here's the big question, can you turn your phone on by using just a charging cable (w/o a battery inside)?
    IIRC it gives a warning and will shut down if the battery isn't put back in relatively quickly.



    Quote Originally Posted by ft5117 View Post
    USB cable won't charge up a fully discharged battery... wow, didn't know that, thanks for pointing that out. but this fact is still a haha.
    Not quite true. It'll charge it, just MUCH slower than the wall charger (500 mA spec VS 1 a spec). And the wall charger is almost certainly very close to 1a, while USB's can easily range from 300 mA to 800 mA.


    Quote Originally Posted by ft5117 View Post
    Description of the attached pic below:
    500ma usb power source + oem 800w data/charge cable = enought power to power the phone, but won't charge the battery. So I get to work, plug in my phone, it doesn't drain the battery, stays at the same level for as long as it's plugged in. This way, I can avoid the repeated drain/recharge cycle... thus avoiding any additional "wear & tear" on the pricey Siedio extended battery. What do you think eBag?
    Your pic shows it's a 400 mA supply. If it's staying the same level, then you're using about that in your normal usage. In another thread I posted I mentioned how I got up to near 700 mA, and could have easily climbed higher.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Battery life dropped another 10% just in typing up the second half of this post. And that was with the screen off and no active data usage....
    You have a bad battery or phone. I watched SprintTV for half an hour and only got about 8% knocked off my battery life. Brightness is at 60%. BT and Incoming Beams are disabled. GPS is set to All.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    You have a bad battery or phone. I watched SprintTV for half an hour and only got about 8% knocked off my battery life. Brightness is at 60%. BT and Incoming Beams are disabled. GPS is set to All.
    Couple of differences:

    Brightness: 100% vs 60% (those last few % make a BIG difference).

    BT: Enabled/Visible vs Disabled

    IR: Enabled vs Disabled

    GPS: Active and running vs on

    Wifi (assuming): On and actively used vs off

    Phone: On and call connected vs on



    Those are *BIG* dfifferences in power usage. My phone is not defective, in normal use I can easily get 10 hours. With heavy usage (for me) I'm usually hitting 5 pretty easily.

    This is just an (unrealistic) example of what the phone *CAN* use power wise. 99.9% of people won't be using it in this fashion...and that .1% probably need some help...
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Couple of differences[...]
    Erm, you talked about normal usage after cranking all of your settings on so that's what I thought you were referring to at the time.

    Bah
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Erm, you talked about normal usage after cranking all of your settings on so that's what I thought you were referring to at the time.

    Bah
    Nope, merely to (further) illustate just how much of a power hog the 800w can be.

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