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  1.    #1  
    This is bad news... I think it has to do with the Treos GPS. Please tell me what you guys think but heres the situation.

    First off, I have TomTom6 and GPSgate working perfect together. I then went to Canada this weekend (obviously outside sprint's area) and it would sit and search for a GPS signal. GPSgate said everything was working normal but TomTom couldn't find one at all... Just sat and searched (EVEN OUTDOORS).

    Tried turning off the GPS to 911 only, soft resetting, still nothing. It is important for me to get the GPS working outside of Sprint's area. Although enormous I need it when I am in the middle of no where.

    Solutions?
  2. #2  
    This is a known issue and has been discussed in multiple threads. There is no fix ATM.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  3. #3  
    There's a few threads regarding the GPS already, but the 800w has Network assisted GPS. Basically, it means it has a GPS receiver, but requires a network, obviously Sprint's, to triangulate your position.

    Another solution would be to buy a BT GPS receiver for those instances you are outside the area.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by b3tt3r View Post
    Solutions?
    Palms says it has autonomous GPS. I suggest you do what I did and ask why they inaccurately listed this feature. I still have no answer. More people need to complain and assert this as inaccurately advertised as this is obviously something they can fix and issue a patch to make it user accessible for third party software.

    To me this issue is as if they required a Sprint connection to access WiFi rendering the Wifi useless overseas and out of sprint coverage.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Palms says it has autonomous GPS. I suggest you do what I did and ask why they inaccurately listed this feature. I still have no answer. More people need to complain and assert this as inaccurately advertised as this is obviously something they can fix and issue a patch to make it user accessible for third party software.

    To me this issue is as if they required a Sprint connection to access WiFi rendering the Wifi useless overseas and out of sprint coverage.
    Actually, I can find nowhere other than the 'leaked' information flyer that states this and Palm's Web site says just the opposite:

    1. GPS not available in all areas at all times. Requires an account and data services at additional cost.
    http://www.palm.com/us/products/smar.../gps_wifi.html

    Now I'm not on Palm's side with this but I don't see any legitimate recourse given the facts.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    Actually, I can find nowhere other than the 'leaked' information flyer that states this and Palm's Web site says just the opposite:
    " GPS not available in all areas at all times. Requires an account and data services at additional cost."
    yes that is the new disclaimer they placed in after complaints. it is a couple of days old.

    there are also currently still on the palm site completely incorrect descriptions stating "Standalone GPS" with no such disclaimer. I expect those pages to be modified and disclaimers to be added as well. eg
    http://www.palm.com/us/products/smar...00w/specs.html
    Last edited by aero; 07/27/2008 at 07:19 PM.
  7.    #7  
    So is it safe to say that it has only the GPS that will work on the network?

    does this use data or no?

    If so do you have to be in a EVDO area or just in a coverage area?

    Does this work in roaming within the USA and just not canda?
  8. #8  
    It is safe to say that if enough people raise the issue palm can fix it with a patch.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    It is safe to say that if enough people raise the issue palm can fix it with a patch.
    This /may/ be true but they are not obligated because it isn't /technically/ broken and is operating as advertised.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    This /may/ be true but they are not obligated because it isn't /technically/ broken and is operating as advertised.
    Not true.

    They /claim/ that the 800w supports stand alone GPS. Of course their /representitives/ at support claim that "stand alone" means that you're using Sprint's towers. So maybe they're just trying to redefine the standard industry term.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Not true.

    They /claim/ that the 800w supports stand alone GPS. Of course their /representitives/ at support claim that "stand alone" means that you're using Sprint's towers. So maybe they're just trying to redefine the standard industry term.
    No... The only claim to 'standalone' GPS was made on an internal Sprint document. Neither Sprint nor Palm on any official release materials have stated such as far as I've been able to find. Read my post above for a link to the official Palm site.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  12. #12  
    The disclaimer comes immediatly after the reference to Maps ("today screen"), and not after the reference to GPS.

    Additionally on the Specs screen:

    Built-in GPS (standalone and assisted);
    Note the lack of such disclaimer. (Though the astute observer will note the lack of the disclaimer on the reference to the Today screen as well.....)

    The Today screen plugin requires a data connection. The GPS does not. Easily tested by using said plugin and/or GPS, then turning off you radio. The GPS will continue to function, the plugin will not.

    It's on soft reset that the initial positioning is getting lost, and that's where the GPS will not function. As long as you don't reset your phone, you can continue to use the GPS regardless of where you are.

    (I am assuming as long as you are relatively close to where your positioning is based on the saved tower location information. My GPS puck has a similar feature to cut down on how long it takes to boot up, if I've moved too far from the last position where it was turned off at, it will not be able to find any satallites as the positioning will be too far off, and has to be reset.)
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The disclaimer comes immediatly after the reference to Maps ("today screen"), and not after the reference to GPS.

    Additionally on the Specs screen:



    Note the lack of such disclaimer. (Though the astute observer will note the lack of the disclaimer on the reference to the Today screen as well.....)

    The Today screen plugin requires a data connection. The GPS does not. Easily tested by using said plugin and/or GPS, then turning off you radio. The GPS will continue to function, the plugin will not.

    It's on soft reset that the initial positioning is getting lost, and that's where the GPS will not function. As long as you don't reset your phone, you can continue to use the GPS regardless of where you are.

    (I am assuming as long as you are relatively close to where your positioning is based on the saved tower location information. My GPS puck has a similar feature to cut down on how long it takes to boot up, if I've moved too far from the last position where it was turned off at, it will not be able to find any satallites as the positioning will be too far off, and has to be reset.)
    I stand corrected and apologize. I missed that in the spec screen.

    I'm glad you're right because I want standalone GPS. ;-)

    So how to proceed, then?
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    The disclaimer comes immediatly after the reference to Maps ("today screen"), and not after the reference to GPS.

    Additionally on the Specs screen:



    Note the lack of such disclaimer. (Though the astute observer will note the lack of the disclaimer on the reference to the Today screen as well.....)

    The Today screen plugin requires a data connection. The GPS does not. Easily tested by using said plugin and/or GPS, then turning off you radio. The GPS will continue to function, the plugin will not.

    It's on soft reset that the initial positioning is getting lost, and that's where the GPS will not function. As long as you don't reset your phone, you can continue to use the GPS regardless of where you are.

    (I am assuming as long as you are relatively close to where your positioning is based on the saved tower location information. My GPS puck has a similar feature to cut down on how long it takes to boot up, if I've moved too far from the last position where it was turned off at, it will not be able to find any satallites as the positioning will be too far off, and has to be reset.)
    I found the GPS requires data connection. I ran my own tests with Garmin, which I posted here. If you turn off the radio, the GPS will continue, but only up to a point. I tested this on my own. I was driving around in the suburbs and some rural areas. No tall buildings, no tall trees. The phone had access to the open sky. I was very close to a Sprint cell tower, so signal was strong. I was close to home, so I know where most of the Sprint cell towers are. When I turned off the phone radio, I was suprised that I was still being picked up. Garmin showed me as still moving, going at the correct speed and making the proper turns. Then I lost GPS signal. At this point, I was already moving away from the cell tower, but the signal was still strong, so I turned around towards the cell tower. The GPS signal was never picked up.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    I found the GPS requires data connection. I ran my own tests with Garmin, which I posted here. If you turn off the radio, the GPS will continue, but only up to a point. I tested this on my own. I was driving around in the suburbs and some rural areas. No tall buildings, no tall trees. The phone had access to the open sky. I was very close to a Sprint cell tower, so signal was strong. I was close to home, so I know where most of the Sprint cell towers are. When I turned off the phone radio, I was suprised that I was still being picked up. Garmin showed me as still moving, going at the correct speed and making the proper turns. Then I lost GPS signal. At this point, I was already moving away from the cell tower, but the signal was still strong, so I turned around towards the cell tower. The GPS signal was never picked up.
    We know... We're hoping to force Palm into fixing that. I was arguing that they had no obligation because I did not see any official documentation stating that the GPS was standalone. However, Ebag pointed me to the Specs (which I somehow missed) which state explicitly that it is, in fact, a standalone GPS. So we need to get Palm to fix this.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  16. xdalaw's Avatar
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    #16  
    If this is technically easy to "fix," I sure hope they realize the grief they'd spare themselves by doing it.

    Come on Palm, let me use my GPS when my radio isn't near a Sprint signal. I'd rather not have to deal with toting around my BT GPS if not necessary.
    Palm III -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Dell Axim X5 Advanced -> Dell Axim X3i -> Dell Axim X50v -> Cingular 8125 -> Sprint Palm Treo 700Wx -> ->Palm Treo 700P (my wife's but I played with it ) -> Sprint Mogul -> Treo 800w -> Touch Pro & Treo Pro.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    I found the GPS requires data connection. I ran my own tests with Garmin, which I posted here. If you turn off the radio, the GPS will continue, but only up to a point. I tested this on my own. I was driving around in the suburbs and some rural areas. No tall buildings, no tall trees. The phone had access to the open sky. I was very close to a Sprint cell tower, so signal was strong. I was close to home, so I know where most of the Sprint cell towers are. When I turned off the phone radio, I was suprised that I was still being picked up. Garmin showed me as still moving, going at the correct speed and making the proper turns. Then I lost GPS signal. At this point, I was already moving away from the cell tower, but the signal was still strong, so I turned around towards the cell tower. The GPS signal was never picked up.

    If you use ##GPS# you can look at the individual satallites that the signal is being picked up from.

    If you can replicate this test, can you watch the data and see if the satallites drop off? Or if the device just ignores them, or what?

    I'll try and test it as well, but I won't be moving much at work. Plus I think I only get 1 or 2 satallites from my desk.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    No... The only claim to 'standalone' GPS was made on an internal Sprint document. Neither Sprint nor Palm on any official release materials have stated such as far as I've been able to find. Read my post above for a link to the official Palm site.
    first of all this is not true. There are still many references to "standalone" for the 800w with absolutely no asterix, disclaimer or notation, on the palm official site, with palm -- not sprint -- advertising material and spec sheets.

    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    This /may/ be true but they are not obligated because it isn't /technically/ broken and is operating as advertised.
    They are obviously and objectively obligated.

    Lastly disclaimers were added to "autonomous" only recently.

    If you bought this handset with WiFi and found out after testing and traveling outside the US, that the WiFi would not work without first contacting a Sprint tower -- you would be more than disappointed, you would be demanding they fix an advertised feature. The situation with GPS is no different
    . I suspect this was turned off to push sprint's own pay by the month service.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post

    If you bought this handset with WiFi and found out after testing and traveling outside the US, that the WiFi would not work without first contacting a Sprint tower -- you would be more than disappointed, you would be demanding they fix an advertised feature. The situation with GPS is no different
    . I suspect this was turned off to push sprint's own pay by the month service.
    Agreed. And the potential liability of a less-than advertised GPS is much greater than a deficient WiFi operation.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    If you use ##GPS# you can look at the individual satellites that the signal is being picked up from.

    If you can replicate this test, can you watch the data and see if the satellites drop off? Or if the device just ignores them, or what?

    I'll try and test it as well, but I won't be moving much at work. Plus I think I only get 1 or 2 satellites from my desk.
    Strangely, although Garmin displays that I have picked up satellites, I have never seen any data with the ##GPS#. I've even stepped outside. I will be on the road later and will give it a try again to see if there is any data.
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