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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ywenz View Post
    eh... a 4 polygon cube with gouraud shading is hardly a thing to get excited about..

    Especially given it's < 320x320 resolution scene..

    They might be able to make iphoneish coverflow animation with it.. I said "might"
    You're missing the whole point...

    I remember reading that the HTC Kaiser/Tilt on the same test got 7 FPS with just software acceleration.

    As I point out in the article, it's the reason why the 800w kills such a device is simple scrolling:


    Hardware acceleration is a big deal as most devices don't do it right now.

    Sorry if you are "unimpressed" if you want some iPhone animation on your WM device...just return it and go to AT&T. I didn't buy this device to be an iClone.

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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by ywenz View Post
    I understand, but I'm skeptical of the potential capabilities demonstrated by a primitive spinning cube.


    I wish I could think of a witty (and probably slightly sarcastic ) example here, but I just can't.

    The "primitive spinning cube" calls functions only availible via certain calls. It's not designed to be impressive, merely functional.

    There's something similar on your PC (assuming Windows).

    Start -> Run -> dxdiag -> OK

    Choose the Display tab (you may have more than one if you have multiple displays).

    Click on "Test Direct3D".

    Watch the "primitive spinning cube".

    If your card has full support (which it most likely does), then you'll see a "primitive spinning cube" every test. A couple of video cards ago (for me), mine would fail on about half of them, because it didn't have full support. Go back 5-10 years ago, and many cards couldn't do it at all.

    Again, it's not there to be impressive, it's there to test the functionality. It simply demonstrates that the card is capable of running it.

    Now every card has different performance specs, which is why you can find two cards that both will run that program, but one will run at 10 FPS and the other at 100 FPS in <insert D3D game of your choice>.

    In the Windows Mobile world, very few cards even have the capability of running D3D, so performance isn't so much of a concern (that will change once all, or nearly all, devices support D3D). In many ways the WM world is where the desktop world was ~15 years ago.


    Long story short? Palm ponied up the big bucks to provide us a phone that has VERY nice capability. Now it's up to the software developers to use it.


    /me edits

    To clarify a bit....

    There are a dozen ways of making a cube spin. It's not about the spinning cube. It's about HOW you make it spin.

    I could ask you to place a coin heads up on a desk, and flip it over. That's easy, you'll use your fingers.

    Now imagine I asked you to build a robot to flip over the coin.

    Flipping over the coin is still easy. Building the robot isn't. (Box = coin, D3D = robot)
    Last edited by Ebag333; 07/17/2008 at 11:27 AM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    You're missing the whole point...

    I remember reading that the HTC Kaiser/Tilt on the same test got 7 FPS with just software acceleration.

    As I point out in the article, it's the reason why the 800w kills such a device is simple scrolling:


    Hardware acceleration is a big deal as most devices don't do it right now.

    Sorry if you are "unimpressed" if you want some iPhone animation on your WM device...just return it and go to AT&T. I didn't buy this device to be an iClone.
    Actually, the Kaiser/Tilt was given the new drivers by HTC. You might want to quote that score to keep the comparison fair.
  4.    #24  
    Actually, no, it wasn't. The new Kaiser ROM (which isn't approved for the AT&T Tilt) provides some software optimizations, not Direct3D drivers. HTC was very clear that they weren't providing new drivers.
  5. to0
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    #25  
    To those of you confused, this program isn't where the acceleration lies, so it would be extremely pointless to ask someone to copy it off so you can put it on a different phone (unless you wanted to see how slow your device is in comparison).
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    You're missing the whole point...

    I remember reading that the HTC Kaiser/Tilt on the same test got 7 FPS with just software acceleration.

    Sorry if you are "unimpressed" if you want some iPhone animation on your WM device...just return it and go to AT&T. I didn't buy this device to be an iClone.
    Wow talking about reading things out of context!!

    I alluded its potential capability to the iphone's coverflow in an unimpressive type of way, meaning = a big so what to iphone's eye candy. I guess that sentiment did not get picked up by some people.

    Those numbers in context means something.. The Tilt got 7fps? That is bad.. but was it @ similar resolution as the 800W? If so, then 800W is indeed much faster with graphics than the HTC Kaiser/Tilt.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by ywenz View Post
    Those numbers in context means something.. The Tilt got 7fps? That is bad.. but was it @ similar resolution as the 800W? If so, then 800W is indeed much faster with graphics than the HTC Kaiser/Tilt.
    Lower resolution, actually. At least, I'm under the impression that the Kaiser/Tilt is QVGA.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kirvin View Post
    Actually, no, it wasn't. The new Kaiser ROM (which isn't approved for the AT&T Tilt) provides some software optimizations, not Direct3D drivers. HTC was very clear that they weren't providing new drivers.
    But what are the Tilt's numbers with the new ROM? I know that with the hacked drivers, it's getting results of approx. 140fps with the Direct3D.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    But what are the Tilt's numbers with the new ROM? I know that with the hacked drivers, it's getting results of approx. 140fps with the Direct3D.
    That's actually a different test though...

    OpenGL ES (CM) test application

    Not sure how it compares/contrasts with the D3DDemo.exe app. Perhaps I'll send Dieter my file and see what he comes up with...

    It's admittedly very confusing but the Tilt officially is only doing software acceleration, which is never as good or efficient as hardware.

    Unofficially, they are obviously trying to get the hardware version implemented.

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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    That's actually a different test though...

    OpenGL ES (CM) test application

    Not sure how it compares/contrasts with the D3DDemo.exe app. Perhaps I'll send Dieter my file and see what he comes up with...

    It's admittedly very confusing but the Tilt officially is only doing software acceleration, which is never as good or efficient as hardware.

    Unofficially, they are obviously trying to get the hardware version implemented.
    I don't know how the two tests compare either. I haven't seen any OpenGL ES tests from the 800w nor any D3DDemo tests from the Tilt with the new hardware acceleration drivers.
  11. bearxor's Avatar
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    #31  
    If someone would attach the file, I'll happily run it on a AT&T Tilt using whatever ROM you guys think would be best.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gw1754 View Post
    seem to have that file either...????
    Yeah as mentioned in the upcoming Podcast on WME:

    Using something like Resco Explorer, the file in question has the following default attributes:
    • Hidden
    • System
    • Read-Only
    • ROM

    So you must have your file explorer program show "hidden" files.

    Attached is the file in question. Not sure if it can run like this standalone.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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  13. bearxor's Avatar
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    #33  
    It runs fine on the Tilt.

    Fine being a subjective word. It runs at about 2.5 to 3.5 fps. Anxiously awaiting the D3D driver that has supposedly been created over at xda-dev and is pending release.

    Here's something interesting, in landscape mode, it actually runs at about 5fps. It's a significant step up from portrait.

    I'm using Dutty's Diamond WM6.1 ROM, BTW.
  14. #34  
    thanks bear for testing!

    yes, will be an interesting 24hrs for tilt owners ;-)
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bearxor View Post
    It runs fine on the Tilt.

    Fine being a subjective word. It runs at about 2.5 to 3.5 fps. Anxiously awaiting the D3D driver that has supposedly been created over at xda-dev and is pending release.

    Here's something interesting, in landscape mode, it actually runs at about 5fps. It's a significant step up from portrait.

    I'm using Dutty's Diamond WM6.1 ROM, BTW.
    I'm surprised that it's that slow on the Tilt. Are you not running the new ROM with the software drivers? My Mogul gets 3.5-4.0fps and it doesn't have any special software or hardware drivers.

    Only a matter of time before we all get to use the screaming new drivers.
  16. bearxor's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I'm [LIS[/LIST]surprised that it's that slow on the Tilt. Are you not running the new ROM with the software drivers? My Mogul gets 3.5-4.0fps and it doesn't have any special software or hardware drivers.

    Only a matter of time before we all get to use the screaming new drivers.
    I honestly have no idea. The tilt isn'ty phone and I don't keep u with the really confusing rom scene. If you point me to the rom you're talking about, I'll happily download it and install of tomorrow morning. I'll also check the thread at xda-dev tomorrow for the installer cab for the drivers that have supposedly been written.

    Honestly, it's crap like having to track down tje latest roms and patches all the damn time thats led me to boycott htc for the past couple of years to begjin with. I shouldn't have to spend hours in front of a computer to try and make my phone work properly.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by bearxor View Post
    I shouldn't have to spend hours in front of a computer to try and make my phone work properly.
    That's the thing I love with the 800w. So far it's required the last amount of "tweaking" of any of the three Palm phones (650, 700wx, 800w) that I've used to get it up and running.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    I'm surprised that it's that slow on the Tilt. Are you not running the new ROM with the software drivers? My Mogul gets 3.5-4.0fps and it doesn't have any special software or hardware drivers.

    Only a matter of time before we all get to use the screaming new drivers.
    Whatever helps you sleep at night, man. I'm sure real soon now we'll all be rich and good looking, too.
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  19. bearxor's Avatar
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    #39  
    Excellent news for Tilt owners! The D3D acceleration drivers do in fact work. I don't get a FPS on D3DMDemo, but it's SIGNIFICANTLY faster. It just doesn't display the fps in the corner.

    Screen scrolling and refresh do not appear to be affected. It's a first release though... Gotta give those smart guys more time.
  20. #40  
    So I'll be that guy who asks the annoying questions:

    How does scrolling correlate with a 3d card?
    Isn't scrolling a 2d function?

    I believe that the 3D card exists in the 800W, but I don't see how it applies to the head-to-head scrolling video on Youtube.
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