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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    I don't think the GPS is necessarily flawed. I think there is a lot of erroneous information out there and people using the wrong settings. In theory the 800w's GPS should be as good, if not better than the Mogul's.

    Remember, you're going to hear probably every possible problem people have on a forum like this but you won't hear much on the good. I'm sure the GPS works fine just like the Mogul's in most cases.
    Please confirm that the 800w's GPS will work with the phone radio turned off. Many reports of it not working.

    Taco, sounds like massive user error to me. My Mogul doesn't freeze. If yours froze 66% of the time overnight, you're doing something very wrong. It's also incredibly easy (and free) to make one of the hardware buttons a ringer switch on the Mogul.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taco Jackson View Post
    I waited with bated breath for the Mogul to come out. After a few months of use I wanted to chuck it off a building. I tried a Treo 700wx and found it wayyyy more enjoyable to use. My 800w is on the UPS truck, scheduled to arrive any minute.

    In the last two days as an experiment, I switched back to my Mogul and updated it to WM 6.1 just to see if I would enjoy it any more than I did previously. These have been the worst two days phone-wise since my first attempt to use that. It's such a piece of junk compared to the Treos. Among the many reasons are most of what others have said:

    - Between the lower-edge D-pad and the slider keyboard, you have to have full concentration and both hands to type "ok" and hit send to reply to a simple text message. Soooo freaking annoying.

    - The phone is retarded slow. Freshly formatted with WM 6.1 and no applications, it's still retarded slow. Custom roms dont help much, its just the lack of ram. I use WMIRC and on the Treo 700wx I can launch it once, connect to my IRC server and be on for days. On the Mogul, if I launch WMIRC, connect and then launch just about any other application, WMIRC closes due to low memory. Its just complete ignorance.

    - All throughout the days of WM 6.0 the stupid Mogul's alarms would not go off reliably. Even if they might have gone off, it was literally about a 2/3 chance of making it through the night without freezing up just sitting on my bedside table. My wife was literally begging me to get a new phone because it was so unreliable to receive calls on. WM 6.1 didn't fix it. In two days I had one alarm not go off and after loading digg.com in PIE, the entire OS went nuts and half the Today screen was mangled pixels even after the PIE process was killed.

    - There's no hardware ringer switch. Total deal killer for me now. You dont know how many times I've turned off the ringer only to have it automatically come back on and ring in the middle of a meeting on the Mogul. Not one worry ever on the Treo.

    - I used to tell others the Mogul just makes a good "media" device but a lousy phone. Now I can't even say that. It's 320x240 and not really comfortable or easy to hold sideways, so big deal. Get an iPod or an iPhone if you are seriously going to watch craploads of content on a 2 inch screen. Whatever 1% better "media player" the Mogul is, is entirely erased when it takes literally 45 seconds of sluggish screen repainting to toggle screen rotation and make it to the phone app just to dial a damn number. I have literally had calls go to voicemail because the phone wouldnt register my "answer" button press quick enough. That just makes you want to stop on the device after the first time or two.

    Anyway. Treo owners need to be appreciative of the relatively minor and subtle, non-groundbreaking, yet very nice differences that Palm has made to WM and their hardware to make it about the most usable experience one can expect to have with the trash that is Windows Mobile OS. If you want to see what all bling and no usability is, buy a Mogul.

    This was a good read but total BS. The ringer switch is a deal breaker? You can make any button on the Mogul whatever you want. Are you sure you really had this phone? Most of us watch media like YouTube and such and don't have to wait 45 seconds for the screen to load. The alarm is a Windows Mobile design, not a specific device. Honestly every WM device has terrible alarms.

    If you have memory issues there is simple maintenance that takes a few seconds. If you were getting pop up's saying that the memory is low then you need to put the smartphone away and get a dumbphone.

    I'm in no way defending the Mogul, it does have issues like most devices (even the 800w). You just need to know how to use it.
  3. #23  
    Total BS? I don't know how to use a phone? I'm a software developer that writes business applications for, among other things, Windows Mobile phones [ edited by dieter, no need to call people names ].

    If I had nothing better to do I could easily shoot a video showing how to take a stock Mogul with nothing installed, install a couple apps like Windows Live, TCPMP and Egress and watch it become so ridiculously slow and ultimately crash that it's not even funny. Meanwhile, I will often hit the task manager on the 700wx for some strange reason and notice I have had like 15 apps running for days and not really even realized it.

    Paint as rosy a picture as you want but the Mogul sucks and there's about 500 megs of posts between 3 boards to prove it. I'm looking at 60 megs of free ram on this 800w with a few apps running. The Mogul has, what like 11 after a soft reset on a good day with a tailwind?

    I agree. If you want to run 1 app at a time. Always "kill" every app you run as soon as you're done. Don't ever rotate the screen or use Today Screen plugins. Use a cooked rom, etc. etc. then yes, the Mogul is a fantastic phone. The rest of us who would rather just have a phone that works better as a phone and less annoying as a PDA and don't have all that time to jack with bricking their phone to free up half a meg of ram seem to enjoy the Treos.

    By the way, I don't know what you're talking about on the alarms. The Mogul, up to (and maybe through) the WM 6.1 release has had a real, known, HTC admitted bug with alarms not going off. The older, WM5 Treo 700wx has not. So, it's not an "all WM devices have terrible alarms" issue. It's another Mogul issue.

    It's all personal preference. I'm just telling it how I see it as someone who used and customized and formatted and screwed with a Mogul dozens of times across a few months before getting sick of it, buying a 700wx and enjoying it so much more on a real, usable, reliable basis than the Mogul that I bought the 800w without hesitation before I'd consider another HTC slider or keyboardless piece of junk.

    Undoubtedly others see it differently.
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 07/15/2008 at 05:40 PM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Taco Jackson View Post
    Total BS? I don't know how to use a phone? I'm a software developer that writes business applications for, among other things, Windows Mobile phones [ edited by dieter, no need to call people names ]..

    If I had nothing better to do I could easily shoot a video showing how to take a stock Mogul with nothing installed, install a couple apps like Windows Live, TCPMP and Egress and watch it become so ridiculously slow and ultimately crash that it's not even funny. Meanwhile, I will often hit the task manager on the 700wx for some strange reason and notice I have had like 15 apps running for days and not really even realized it.

    Paint as rosy a picture as you want but the Mogul sucks and there's about 500 megs of posts between 3 boards to prove it. I'm looking at 60 megs of free ram on this 800w with a few apps running. The Mogul has, what like 11 after a soft reset on a good day with a tailwind?

    I agree. If you want to run 1 app at a time. Always "kill" every app you run as soon as you're done. Don't ever rotate the screen or use Today Screen plugins. Use a cooked rom, etc. etc. then yes, the Mogul is a fantastic phone. The rest of us who would rather just have a phone that works better as a phone and less annoying as a PDA and don't have all that time to jack with bricking their phone to free up half a meg of ram seem to enjoy the Treos.

    By the way, I don't know what you're talking about on the alarms. The Mogul, up to (and maybe through) the WM 6.1 release has had a real, known, HTC admitted bug with alarms not going off. The older, WM5 Treo 700wx has not. So, it's not an "all WM devices have terrible alarms" issue. It's another Mogul issue.

    It's all personal preference. I'm just telling it how I see it as someone who used and customized and formatted and screwed with a Mogul dozens of times across a few months before getting sick of it, buying a 700wx and enjoying it so much more on a real, usable, reliable basis than the Mogul that I bought the 800w without hesitation before I'd consider another HTC slider or keyboardless piece of junk.

    Undoubtedly others see it differently.
    While I'm not as angry at Taco, I am in full agreement. The Mogul is the worst phone that I've owned in about 4 years. I know it's hard to overlook specs, b/c that's what sells. But things like user interface and efficiency and attention to detail are what set the Treo apart. Frankly, I'm shocked at how anyone can use the Mogul and not think it's slow, whether or not you're a power user or completely new to smartphones. Or even cell phones in general. To each his own, but seriously, if anyone out there is HAPPY with the SPEED of the Mogul, get on a Treo and your mind will be blown away. Or get on any other phone, for that matter. My experience echoes that of Taco. The best anyone can do is put bandaids on the ram issue that the Mogul has.
    Last edited by Dieter Bohn; 07/15/2008 at 05:40 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    10 seconds at the very most and usually under 5 seconds for me.
    I've been getting all my GPS fixes on the 800w 30 seconds or less, indoors, Google Maps or Live Search, so I don't see how it's flawed.

    Back to the OP:

    Mogul is old. The build quality is not so good (typical HTC) and it's much more of a niche device than for someone's first WM device.

    Some prefer the slider, others (like myself) loathe it.

    I don't see any reason not to get the 800w as it's more user friendly and will be easier for you to learn on. It's especially good if you IM, SMS or email a lot.

    Mogul is okay if you know how WM works and how to manage it...but you will have to manage it, something the 800w seems to eschew.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  6. #26  
    The worst I've ever owned was the PPC-6700. I've had a Mogul for over a year and I (nor anyone) ever claimed it was speed demon. I also had the 700wx with this phone at one time and was in noway blown away by its speed (comparing the two since they have the same RAM).

    I agree, to each his own. I happen to like the device. Of course I would love it to be snappier but it is what it is.

    I will get back to the OP question. Same feature set on both devices. One has a lot more memory and the other is lacking. To me this is the only difference besides the visual. So if you want a larger keyboard and screen go with the Mogul. You want a smaller screen and front mount keyboard you go with the Treo. I have both so I don't have to make that decision. Play with them both then make your choice.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I've been getting all my GPS fixes on the 800w 30 seconds or less, indoors, Google Maps or Live Search, so I don't see how it's flawed.

    Back to the OP:

    Mogul is old. The build quality is not so good (typical HTC) and it's much more of a niche device than for someone's first WM device.

    Some prefer the slider, others (like myself) loathe it.

    I don't see any reason not to get the 800w as it's more user friendly and will be easier for you to learn on. It's especially good if you IM, SMS or email a lot.

    Mogul is okay if you know how WM works and how to manage it...but you will have to manage it, something the 800w seems to eschew.
    Again, please confirm that the 800w's GPS works with the phone radio turned off.

    Sorry Taco, many Mogul ROMs have 24MB free after boot. Certainly not as much as the 800w but very easy for anyone with a solid understanding of WM to manage over a course of weeks without any need for soft resets.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Again, please confirm that the 800w's GPS works with the phone radio turned off.
    I don't have any mapping software with me, so I can't really, plus I'm in doors.

    Still, I wouldn't call that flawed as the OP hasn't mentioned requiring that specific feature. Regardless, aGPS is a superior system anyways and if someone needs the GPS without assistance servers, they'd be better off with a "world phone"

    Palm's paperwork does say "standalone and assisted".
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Sorry Taco, many Mogul ROMs have 24MB free after boot. Certainly not as much as the 800w but very easy for anyone with a solid understanding of WM to manage over a course of weeks without any need for soft resets.
    Ding ding...!!
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyb_23 View Post
    Ive also never a had a winmo phone either.
    Which is why they should avoid the Mogul.

    It's not "new user" friendly and will probably make them hate WM more than like it...(speaking for a few friends of mine who were new to WM and have the Mogul).

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  9. #29  
    well ill have to give my review of the 800w when it comes. i had the treo 700wx and the mogul now. only reason i got the mogul was because it had gps and asp so i could play music through my car stereo. the 700wx was actually faster but the mogul had a bigger screen a a lot more support the treo and more software. the programs i use on my mogul will work on the 800w so i get those features with one hand use i dont have to stop and slide the phone to type and there be a delay like me typing this now through mogul with opera mini. there is a typing delay and it has to catch up on what im typing.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mabmarc View Post
    The biggest issue I had with the mogul was the 5way. It sits at the bottom of the phone and is more difficult to hold the phone and use it with one hand. I'm not saying it can't be done but it is much easier to use a phone with the 5way sitting in the middle of the device instead of the bottom.

    Even though the keyboard is bigger and wider I found it a little more difficult to type because I had to stretch at times to reach keys.
    Before any other complaint, the biggest issue with the Mogul is the lack of RAM. THE ABSOLUTE LACK OF RAM killed it for most folks.
    The other specs are very worthy but were made redundant with constant slow downs and lockups.
    So sad the mogul of HTC!!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Regardless, aGPS is a superior system anyways and if someone needs the GPS without assistance servers, they'd be better off with a "world phone"
    What makes you say that? There are tons of places in the US where there's no CDMA coverage. Flying, hiking, boating, camping, more remote areas, etc. The Mogul as aGPS and standalone GPS for when there's no cell coverage. Best of both worlds, bud.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    What makes you say that? There are tons of places in the US where there's no CDMA coverage. Flying, hiking, boating, camping, more remote areas, etc. The Mogul as aGPS and standalone GPS for when there's no cell coverage. Best of both worlds, bud.
    I wasn't aware that we have definitively proved that despite what Palm says, the 800w is incapable of standalone...

    The phone has only been out a few days. The registry hack to improve the Mogul's GPS didn't appear overnight either, so lets not be too quick to be so authoritative on the matter--afterall its WM and where this is a will, there is a way.

    But where you have a signal, aGPS trounces gps. I had a lock on 8 satellites within 10 seconds tonight in Manhatten.
  13. tommyb_23's Avatar
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       #33  
    Alright, well I liked to thank everyone who posted a comment or 10! I have purchased my phone today took back that piece of crap instink! The phone I chose is.................................................THE CENTRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I decided to go against the mogul because of what everyone said about it! But also chose to wait to get the 800w because it is still not avialable where I am (wtf sprint)! I want to buy the 800w from best buy due to the fact they give you instant mir no waiting on mailing form in! I chose the 800w because of what was said about being easier transition from pos to wm for a first time wm user. I think I got a good deal on the centro to tide me over till I get the 800w I paid 100 off craigslist for the centro no contract so I get to all the discounts when I buy the 800w. But who knows maybe Ill wait for nova os (taking a real deep breath on that one) to come out or maybe the touch pro or diamond who knows, but ill get to compare something else to 800w in a month or 2. I really do love palm phones my 755p was a breeze to use and the centro seems very much like that so it should do the job for a while!!!! AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO AND ADVISE EVERYONE GAVE!

    YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh on a side note Ive been on the phone with retensions all night trying to get a discount on my plan have 2 lines share 3000 mins unlimited everything else for 169.99 tried to get them to lower it 20 bucks a month. They wouldnt budge a penny wtf Ive been with sprint for 9 years never asked for a discount on my monthly plans last person I Spoke with said he was sending up to different dept or whatever escaltion team is and created a case about it said they will call me back in the am sometime. I told them I was ready to go to the darkside and get the iphone, which Im not dont want it just trying to bluff them out! Anyone have some advise how to procede from here with them?
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Again, please confirm that the 800w's GPS works with the phone radio turned off.
    Turned off phone radio, walked onto my backyard deck and fired up Google Maps 2.1.0.10, tapped "Use GPS" (no special settings} and waited about 90 seconds. Got no GPS fix. Turned on phone radio, tapped "Use GPS", had 8 satellites in about six seconds.

    Google Maps w/GPS showed me standing outside my neighbor's bedroom window. No, really, I was 25 feet away on my own deck ... ! Anyway, pretty close for aGPS. And since I usually have my phone radio on, aGPS is find for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Sorry Taco, many Mogul ROMs have 24MB free after boot. Certainly not as much as the 800w but very easy for anyone with a solid understanding of WM to manage over a course of weeks without any need for soft resets.
    My Mogul, with the stock ROM, the December update, the March update and the June leaked WM6.1 ROM update averaged about 21MB free on startup. I had to abandon my faves (PI, FlexMail, Opera) because the extra 1 or 2 MB they each used were too much.

    Any extra Today plugins, switching back and forth between portrait/landscape, using IE for long sessions, etc required me to frequently run MemMaid to reclaim precious RAM. I also had flakey GPS and EVDO until the March update, I had the white spot on my screen, couldn't read the display outside and through all four ROM versions had the stupid keyboard typing lag. As well as the phone completely locking up two or three times a day doing nothing more than sitting on my desk.

    All in all, the 800W is not entirely all I'd like - I'd like working voice dialling and better battery life. But it is a far more satisfying phone for the last two days than the Mogul ever was. But if NSX or VRGT want to buy my Mogul for spare parts, tell me where to ship it!

    have fun,
    john
  15. #35  
    I have both phones, and after some months, my keyboard pretty much became unusable; I had to press hard with almost every key to get it to register. Then, it bricked on me for no reason. I have a brand new one from Sprint (well, I used it for two weeks before I got the 800), and after 30 days I'm going to sell it to a friend. I don't miss it at all.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I wasn't aware that we have definitively proved that despite what Palm says, the 800w is incapable of standalone...

    The phone has only been out a few days. The registry hack to improve the Mogul's GPS didn't appear overnight either, so lets not be too quick to be so authoritative on the matter--afterall its WM and where this is a will, there is a way.

    But where you have a signal, aGPS trounces gps. I had a lock on 8 satellites within 10 seconds tonight in Manhatten.
    Good thing the Mogul has aGPS too. 5 seconds for a lock with the new dcd ROM. No GPS priming software needed for iGuidance either!

    With the 800w having so many problems, I might be waiting until October for the Touch Pro with its VGA screen, faster processor and bigger battery.

    jsage, never had any keyboard typing lag or white spots. Phone never locks up either.
  17. #37  
    I think the Mogul has soured me on the whole sliding keyboard thing forever...

    or at least until I see how sexy the touch pro is and covet it, buy it, and regret my purchase afterwards.
  18. jsage's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    never had any keyboard typing lag or white spots. Phone never locks up either.
    you've got a better one than mine. my mogul was first winmo phone i wanted to throw out a window. had to keep it as vanilla as possible just to be useful. feeling better on the 800w now. the registry edits for power give me about ten hours battery life, still need more though.

    have fun,
    john
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Good thing the Mogul has aGPS too. 5 seconds for a lock with the new dcd ROM. No GPS priming software needed for iGuidance either!

    With the 800w having so many problems, I might be waiting until October for the Touch Pro with its VGA screen, faster processor and bigger battery.

    jsage, never had any keyboard typing lag or white spots. Phone never locks up either.
    lmao...

    You own and actually like the Mogul, yet are holding off on the 800w because of "so many problems"...boy that's rich!

    Look, the Mogul could have super-duper-aGPS for all I care and it'll still be a cheaply built, no direct driver, not enough memory, inconvenient slider that was barely an upgrade in specs from the 6700 device.

    And you think a VGA'd 500+mhz device with a secondary UI on top will get better battery life? Hmmm....it'd be very interesting but I wouldn't bet on it.

    tommyb_23

    Congrats on the Centro! Great little device that I used for solidly for 7 months. It'll wet your appetite for the 800w and that update coming soon will be awesome with the Google Maps "my location" enabled.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  20. #40  
    OK, if there's such a big brouhaha over the GPS thing, why doesn't someone just... call Palm up and call them out over the issue?
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