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  1. #81  
    This sounds like possibly a similar issue with the Samsung i780..

    Can someone use these directions to see if this "solves" this problem?
    http://www.pocketpt.net/forum/index....&showentry=150

    Basically, it's an app called "port splitter" and it fixes
    As you know, some softwares of GPS(case of the Tom Tom) do not recognize the COM Port of Samsung, so we have to use some software to " fix" satellites and to be able to navigate.

    There are two softwares that make possible any program of GPS "fix" Satellites, are they GPSGate and Portplitter, but as the GPSGate is paid, and cause many times a problem when being slow picking up a incomming call, I suggest you use Portsplitter that is freeware and donīt cause any problem:
    I'd try it but...
    1. I don't have any dedicated mapping software
    2. Don't really care about this

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  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    [*]Don't really care about this [/LIST]
    Thanks for making me chuckle

    Always thought the i780 is hot.
  3. Cel
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The question goes to whether I should be able to take this handset with me for example on a trip to Europe, to use it for getting my email and browsing the web on the wifi you can find from Copenhagen to Kathmandu, AND use it for walking tours and getting around in unfamiliar foreign cities (with appropriate maps for given software already on my sdhc) as would be expected from the term "stand alone GPS." I mean it has wm6.1 and a gps.
    I agree with Mal and say this doesn't matter... But, I have a silly question... They also have cell towers from Copenhagen to Kathmandu, won't the phone be able to lock on those? Are the networks in Europe completely different that our phones are completely unusable? I honestly have no freaking clue and am curious...

    Second, rather then leaving the country, wouldn't a drive into the mountains to an area with no cell service do the trick?
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    Are the networks in Europe completely different that our phones are completely unusable? I honestly have no freaking clue and am curious...
    Our phones are not usable for voice -- as expected when you buy a CDMA system phone and turn it on in GSM system using Europe.

    But they are usable, quite importantly for a smart device, for email and the net because WiFi is all around in cafe's hotels, etc, and is a universal standard.

    So too is GPS a universal standard. If you have a "PNA" personal navigation device (IE a handheld dedicated TomTom or Garmin) or if you have a PDA with included or add on GPS and software and maps you can buy, it will work anywhere in the world. In fact it will work in the middle of the ocean.

    So if the phone is advertised as having Autonomous GPS (using GPS satellites) in addition to opposed to "Assisted GPS" (also using tower information) and is a win mobile device, as it is, a lot of would expect navigation software such as Garmin or TomTom designed for putting on such devices, to work anywhere in the world.

    You are probably not in the category of people who bought the handset with this feature in mind since you don't travel enough to yet know that Europe and much of the world uses a different voice system. But many of us do travel for business.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You are probably not in the category of people who bought the handset with this feature in mind since you don't travel enough to yet know that Europe and much of the world uses a different voice system. But many of us do travel for business.
    ...and then there are people who just use whatever phone the company gives them
  6. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #86  
    Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I thought I'd summarize:

    The problem with this is that:

    1) Third-party GPS-enabled apps will not be able to use the GPS functionality of the Treo 800w.

    2) When going to a non-Sprint-covered area (in the US or abroad), the GPS functionality will not work

    3) Palm/Sprint advertized a feature which is at best not available out of the box and at worst simply not there, thus... False Advertizing!

    Given the confusion around this issue (due to the specs saying differently from what actually is the experience of users with the phone), why hasn't anyone contacted Palm and asked them about it? It would seem a natural step now that we've more or less determined that this functionality does not exist out of the box. Any of you try contacting Palm? If not, I would hope someone has some time to do so (I don't right now) and get back to us. This should also be tackled by some press, who might get a better (quicker/more accurate) response from Palm and/or Sprint?
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  7. #87  
    For your viewing pleasure, all of the 800w's registry keys which reference "GPS".

    Note the lack of "aGPS".

    Code:
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlPanel\GPS Settings]
      "Redirect"="\\Windows\\gps_mgr.cpl"
      "Name"="GPS Manager"
    
    
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlPanel\GPS Settings\Program ports]
      "COM0:"="COM0"
      "COM7:"="COM7"
      "GPD1:"="GPD1"
      "GPD2:"="GPD2"
      "GPD3:"="GPD3"
      "GPD4:"="GPD4"
      "GPD5:"="GPD5"
      "GPD6:"="GPD6"
      "GPD7:"="GPD7"
      "GPD8:"="GPD8"
      "GPD9:"="GPD9"
    
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Services\GPSPollService]
      "Dll"="PalmGpsId"
      "Index"=dword:0
      "Keep"=dword:1
      "Order"=dword:f
      "Prefix"="GPP"
    
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Palm\POI]
      "DataDll"="\\Windows\\PoiMapData.dll"
      "GpsDll"="\\Windows\\GpsApi.dll"
      "Path"="\\Windows\\PoiApp.exe"
      "LaunchDll"="\\Windows\\PoiLaunch.dll"
    
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Palm\POI]
      "DataDll"="\\Windows\\PoiMapData.dll"
      "GpsDll"="\\Windows\\GpsApi.dll"
      "Path"="\\Windows\\PoiApp.exe"
      "LaunchDll"="\\Windows\\PoiLaunch.dll"
    
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\GPSID]
      "Dll"="GpsId.dll"
      "Flags"=dword:2
      "Context"=dword:0
      "Index"=dword:0
      "Prefix"="GPD"
      "Keep"=dword:1
      "Order"=dword:10
  8. Cel
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Short of going offshore I am wondering if there is a definitive method to find out. (Leaving, of course, the exercise of actually asking Palm to a more brave and stalwart soul).
    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon View Post
    Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I thought I'd summarize:

    The problem with this is that:

    1) Third-party GPS-enabled apps will not be able to use the GPS functionality of the Treo 800w.

    2) When going to a non-Sprint-covered area (in the US or abroad), the GPS functionality will not work

    3) Palm/Sprint advertized a feature which is at best not available out of the box and at worst simply not there, thus... False Advertizing!

    Given the confusion around this issue (due to the specs saying differently from what actually is the experience of users with the phone), why hasn't anyone contacted Palm and asked them about it? It would seem a natural step now that we've more or less determined that this functionality does not exist out of the box. Any of you try contacting Palm? If not, I would hope someone has some time to do so (I don't right now) and get back to us. This should also be tackled by some press, who might get a better (quicker/more accurate) response from Palm and/or Sprint?
    Except this is all conjecture as every experiment that has been posted has the phone in flight mode (or turned off, however you want to call it) People have posted evidence on other phones about GPS being locked out in flight mode.

    Someone needs to go find an area with no cell service, do a reset, and see if they can get the GPS to work. I don't care, so I'm not driving but if my purchase was dependent on whether I take my phone to Europe, I'd bother to call Palm or get in my car and take a little drive.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by dvdmon View Post
    Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I thought I'd summarize:

    The problem with this is that:

    1) Third-party GPS-enabled apps will not be able to use the GPS functionality of the Treo 800w.
    This part is false.

    Google Maps, Live Search, GPS Today, AstroNavigatorII, Mologogo etc. all work very, very well with the Treo 800w with zero configuration.

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  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    Except this is all conjecture as every experiment that has been posted has the phone in flight mode (or turned off, however you want to call it) People have posted evidence on other phones about GPS being locked out in flight mode.

    Someone needs to go find an area with no cell service, do a reset, and see if they can get the GPS to work. I don't care, so I'm not driving but if my purchase was dependent on whether I take my phone to Europe, I'd bother to call Palm or get in my car and take a little drive.
    Yes, but the GPS on the Mogul works perfectly in Flight Mode. No reason that the much newer 800w shouldn't be able to do the same thing, especially since Palm advertises it as being able to do so.
  11. #91  
    Just had an online conversation with Palm.

    LiveAssist Transcript

    chat id: ec8173e8-3b0c-4cb5-a1e7-4840eb9719e8
    Problem: GPS

    Nelson > Hello Ebag333, Thank you for contacting Palm Technical Support. My name is Nelson. How may I help you?
    Nelson > Hello, please let me go through the information you have provided.

    Ebag333 > Hi, I was wondering if the 800w has standalone GPS

    Nelson > Could you be more specific about the issue?
    Nelson > I understand that you want to know wether the 800w supports GPS or not .
    Nelson > Am I correct ?

    Ebag333 > I'm wondering what the 800w supports. Obviously it supports aGPS (assisted GPS), the question is does it actually support GPS (stand alone, or non-assisted GPS)
    Ebag333 > For example, if I travel to France, can I still use my GPS (assuming I have stand alone software like Garmin or Tom Tom, etc)

    Nelson > Can I have 3 minutes to work on the issue?

    Ebag333 > You can take 3 hours as long as you can find an answer to my question.

    Nelson > Thank you for staying online.
    Nelson > It does supports standalone GPS .

    Ebag333 > That is what I thought according to the specs.
    Ebag333 > (http://www.palm.com/us/products/smar...00w/specs.html)
    Ebag333 > The problem is.....it doesn't actually work.
    Ebag333 > If you disable your radio, reset your phone, leave the radio off, and try and use GPS, it will fail

    Nelson > Could you let me know the make and model of the GPS ?

    Ebag333 > I'm not talking about external GPS
    Ebag333 > I'm talking about the GPS in the phone

    Nelson > Let me explain .
    Nelson > The phone should be turned on to connect to the GPS because it will be activated from the service. provider to contact the Satellite

    Ebag333 > That is aGPS, yes

    Nelson > I mean to communicate with satellite.

    Ebag333 > (assisted GPS)
    Ebag333 > I'm very familiar with the difference, and there is a VERY important difference between assisted and stand alone
    Ebag333 > Assisted means what you just said, it uses triangulation from the cell towers to speed the process
    Ebag333 > stand alone (regular old fashioned) GPS means it does NOT use the towers to triangulate
    Ebag333 > aGPS is MUCH faster, but in areas where Sprint does not have service it's useless as there are no towers to triangulate from
    Ebag333 > Your specs state that the 800w has: Built-in GPS (standalone and assisted)
    Ebag333 > so my question is, why doesn't stand alone GPS actually work?

    Nelson > Can I have 3 minutes to work on the issue?
    Ebag333 > sure
    Ebag333 > If you have questions on aGPS vs GPS, you might want to look at this article, it explains it very well:
    Ebag333 > http://wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs..._tutorial.html

    Nelson > I am sorry. This is taking more time than usual. Could I have a 5 more minutes?

    Ebag333 > as I said before, take as much time as you need

    Nelson > I am discussing with my supervisors .

    Ebag333 > I'm looking for a free GPS app to demonstrate what I'm talking about too, sorry, I should have had one ready.

    Nelson > Thank you for staying online.
    Nelson > I appreciate your patience .

    Ebag333 > no problem

    Nelson > Let me explain,.
    Nelson > I have cross checked the information the 800w came up with a new feature that even if the phone is turned off the GPS should work .
    Nelson > But that is not happening in your regard .

    Ebag333 > correct
    Ebag333 > does it work on your test 800w?
    Ebag333 > (if you have one handy)

    Nelson > yes.

    Ebag333 > what application are you using?
    Ebag333 > to test stand alone GPS?

    Nelson > As it is a new branded device we are just coming across these type of issues .

    Ebag333 > understood

    Nelson > I am sorry, based on the procedures already performed, it looks like this scenario is going to need real-time diagnostics for its cause to be fully determined.

    Since this is the case, it would be best if you get in touch with our telephone Technical Support team so that one of our representatives can simulate the troubleshooting steps with you and eliminate possible points of failure.
    Nelson > The voice support department is our escalation channel .

    Ebag333 > So I have to call to continue troubleshooting this?

    Nelson > I will provide you the informationon how to contact them. However before contacting them I need to create service request in our data base, so that call charges will be for that particular call will be waved off.

    Ebag333 > ok

    Nelson > To create a Service Request, Please provide the below listed information:

    1) What is your FirstName, LastName?
    2) What is your primary phone number?
    3) Secondary phone number, if any.
    4) Your primary Email Address.
    5) Provide me your complete address (Address, City, State, Country, Pin).
    6) Do you wish Palm to send you promotional emails?
    7) Provide your Device Serial Number.
    8) Provide the country of Purchase for this device.
    9) Provide the Place of Purchase ( Ex: Palm Stores, Carrier stores, Retail stores, Online stores, e-bay/Amazon).
    10) Provide me the device Purchase Date.
    11) Name of the carrier? (Ex: Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, Alltel, T-Mobile, Unlocked GSM)

    Please take your time and provide me the answers to the above given questions.

    After providing the information, it will take 10 minutes for me to create your record and Service Request.

    Ebag333 > <Information>

    Nelson > Thank you for staying online.
    Nelson > I appreciate your patience .

    Ebag333 > no problem

    Nelson > I have created service request in our data base .
    Nelson > Based on the information youíve provided, Iíve created a service request in our database.


    The Service Request number is :1-51412111370


    You need to contact our Voice Support department with this service request number.

    Our Voice support department will use this SR number, check all the information in the database and do the needful in addressing the issue.

    Contact our Voice Support Department at: 877-426-3777 between 5 am - 9 pm (PST) on week days and 8 am - 5 pm on weekends.


    Voice support will be available from 5AM to 9PM (PST) on week days and from 8AM to 5PM on weekends.



    Please note down the above given Service Request Number and Voice Support Number or else you will lose this information once the chat session is closed.
    Nelson > Is there anything else I could assist you with?

    Ebag333 > If I call them in about 3 hours, will there be someone around who can work with me on this?

    Nelson > Yes, they will be.

    Ebag333 > great
    Ebag333 > thanks for your help

    Nelson > It's pleasure to assist you .
    Nelson > Have a great day !

    Ebag333 > you too

    Nelson > Thank you .
    Nelson > Bye,.
    Nelson > Thank you for contacting Palm Technical Support. A customer survey will pop up once the chat ends. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.
    I will be calling them in a couple of hours.
  12. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #92  
    Great, eBag, looking forward to hearing your report from Tech Support!
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  13. #93  
    eBag's on a roll.

    If there is ANY doubt about this, maybe my scenario can help:

    I installed GPS Gate before I activated the phone or turned it on.
    It looked for a signal on GPD1.
    The phone tried to connect to Vision (and obviously failed since the phone had not been activated).
    GPS Gate claimed there was no signal.

    I tried the same thing with the phone turned on, but not activated. It tried to connect to Vision. Not only is the phone looking for Sprint service, it is apparently also searching for a data connection.
  14. leonidm's Avatar
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    #94  
    I'm moovig my GPS findings to a more appropriate thread:
    I tested Tomtom 6, TomTom 7 , igo8 and Garmin XT on treo 800w (unactivted with sprint yet)
    they all work ,but only through virtual port created by GPSgate.
    Now here is the interesting stuff:
    GPSGate has list of ports that it can look for GPS for, but besides standard COM0:..COM7... it has an option called "WM GPS". If this one is selected, GPS gate will say "GPS data, but no position" and icon turn yellow even if the radio is "turned off-reset-radio still turned off". I do not believe it will ever turn green and lock position if the radio is not turned on. If the radio is turned on then it will eventually lock on the position. At this point it can let other programs navigate through it.
    now to the second interesting observation:
    if I select COM7 in GPS gate instead of "WM GPS" as the source (obviously COM7 is also selected in GPS control panel) then I do " radio turned off-reset-radio still turned off" procedure - i will not find any signal on COM7 -GPS icon is red , saying no data is coming. At this point I turn the radio on by holding the red button down. Amazingly withing 3-5 seconds , the GPSgate icon becomes green, claiming GPS signal is present and position is locked. If at this point I switch to "WM GPS" the icon is yellow and it still says GPS data but no position locked. It will lock eventually.
    Next I close GPSGate and run "GPS test" - it also finds signal on COM7, but does not see any satelites until the GPSGate locks position on "WM GPS" port.
    Here is my conclusion (speculation if you want ) - Real GPS is connected to some internal "WM GPS" port, that normal navigation software does not know about, but GPSGate does, GPS is running initially, but without some init data from aGPS it will never lock the position (has to be tested, maybe it will but it would take longer then I tried). COM7 is connected initially to aGPS only. Until the radio is off this port is dead, once radio is on the port is opened ,and aGPS data is streamed to it initially - this data is meaningless to Navigation software (not NMEA probably), but apparently is not really meaningless to GPSgate - atleast it can parse some strings from it to conclude that aGPS have a location lock. Once it starts it will kickstart the real GPS and cause it to eventually lock the position too. After that some mixed data must be coming on com7, combined of NMEA messages and aGPS messages. I'm saying this because at this point some programs are able to use data coming from port 7 (Google maps and GPS Test), but tomtom, garmin and iGo8 , do not like it. Perhaps next version of above programs will know more about 800w internal GPS and wil be able to use it regardless of aGPS. BTW tomtom7 already has an option for internal GPS, but that option was created for HTC diomond, from which tomtom 7 was ripped, so it does not work on 800w. All of the above has pure theoretical value. The only practical conclusion for me is to:
    In order to use real navigation software one must turn the radio on at least for a short period of time, then it can be turned off, but it still looks like GPSgate is required to operate as intermediate gateway. I will experement more tomorrow and report if i find something interesting.
    I've installed mobileVT (Hyperterminal for WM) here is what I can capture:
    WM GPS port redirected to com7 by GPSGate: (radio off, and was off after reset)
    $GPGLL,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,115539.875,V*23
    $GPRMC,115539.875,V,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,0.00,0.0,160708,0.0,E*47
    $GPGGA,115540.877,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,0,0,0.0,0.0,M,0.0,M,,*51
    $GPGLL,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,115540.877,V*2F
    $GPRMC,115540.877,V,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,0.00,0.0,160708,0.0,E*4B
    $GPGGA,115541.879,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,0,0,0.0,0.0,M,0.0,M,,*5E
    $GPGLL,0000.00001,N,00000.00001,E,115541.879,V*20

    Like you see Standard NMEA stream - the first parameter is time received from SAT and it is correct (11:55 GMT), the second 2 are coordinates - they are not correct (no lock)

    here is what is coming from COM7: directly after Radio is turned on and GPSGate thinks there is a lock:
    $GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66
    $GPRMC,,A,,,,,,,,,*26
    $GPGLL,,,,,,A*11
    $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,50.00,50.00,50.00*35
    $GPGSV,1,1,00*79
    $GPGGA,,,,,,0,,,,,,,,*66
    Also kind of standard but most numbers are missng completly
    I do not know why GPSGate thinks it's locked on position - probably a bug in GPSGate or on of those string, does notify it that position is locked (there is such command, but I do not remember NMEA protocol, without reading specs)
  15. #95  
    Why haven one of you tried the possible solution I listed above?

    This whole issue with the ports, GDP1, GPSGate, etc. that leonidm listed above all sound just like the i780.

    At least disconfirm that solution first so we can move on...yikes. I'm throwing bones here and everyone is looking at their navels.

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  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    Except this is all conjecture as every experiment that has been posted has the phone in flight mode (or turned off, however you want to call it) People have posted evidence on other phones about GPS being locked out in flight mode..
    I dont know about you but the first thing I do when I go to an area without cell service is turn off the phone radio because otherwise it will continuously search for a signal eating the entire battery in a matter of hours. IMO we need the GPS to work with the phone off (flight mode) like Palm said it would.
    What good would GPS do us with the phone on and constantly searching for service? Not much because the battery would be dead in a short while.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  17. leonidm's Avatar
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    #97  
    Malatesta, I believe PortSpliter is doing exactly the same as GPSgate, and it does not solve the main problem - GPS is not on until aGPS is locked. In i780 that problem is solved with registry hack, but this keys are specifc to that phone I think.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Why haven one of you tried the possible solution I listed above?

    This whole issue with the ports, GDP1, GPSGate, etc. that leonidm listed above all sound just like the i780.

    At least disconfirm that solution first so we can move on...yikes. I'm throwing bones here and everyone is looking at their navels.
    You said something, Mal?


    Just played with Port Splitter. No joy.

    (Besides, I *WANT* Palm to update this. I'm hoping they push out a full ROM update and we can start cooking custom ROM's. )
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    You said something, Mal?


    Just played with Port Splitter. No joy.

    (Besides, I *WANT* Palm to update this. I'm hoping they push out a full ROM update and we can start cooking custom ROM's. )
    lol

    thank you for testing!

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  20. leonidm's Avatar
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    #100  
    same here it doesn't even see most of Treo's ports
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