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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    TomTom and Garmin will work fine in other countries without a data signal as long as you have the maps for that country installed.
    I appreciate your answer but are you certain of this? How?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I appreciate your answer but are you certain of this? How?
    Barring of course any odd reliance on a data signal with the Treo then yes it is correct.

    The TomTom software as well as the Garmin store all of their maps onto a memory card. Therefore all your device needs is a GPS signal.

    I've talked on my Mogul while the TomTom software continued to let me know where to turn and where I was going. Since the Mogul has limited ram this was painful but worked.

    Will it work with the Treo without a data signal? I don't see why not. Theoretically it should but if there are some odd data-required issues then it may not.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    but if there are some odd data-required issues then it may not.
    Thats the whole point of this thread. It appears there is. Its called GPSa and the "a" part needs sprint cell tower service to function. Nobody yet has figured out how to use just the GPS chips without GPSa.

    I'm going in a cruise next week and will be out of cell coverage for most of it. I thought it would be cool to check the GPS from time to time to see where I am. As of now I am holding off buying Garmin XT because it appears it will not work out at sea.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Thats the whole point of this thread. It appears there is. Its called GPSa and the "a" part needs sprint cell tower service to function. Nobody yet has figured out how to use just the GPS chips without GPSa.

    I'm going in a cruise next week and will be out of cell coverage for most of it. I thought it would be cool to check the GPS from time to time to see where I am. As of now I am holding off buying Garmin XT because it appears it will not work out at sea.
    No. The GPS on the Moguls works perfectly without the GPSa. You can have the phone radio turned off (like when on a plane) and the GPS still works. The only issue would be if you didn't have the correct maps on your SD card to show your location.
  5. #45  
    I don't own a Treo 800w since it's not available in The Netherlands yet. But you could try the next registry settings:

    HKLM/SOFTWARE/HTC/SUPL AGPS:

    change EnableAGPS to 1 or 0 (should not matter)
    change EnableGPSSmartMode to 1
    change GPSMode to 4

    Good luck on this one
    Last edited by mccune; 07/15/2008 at 02:26 PM.
  6. kwyatt's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    OK I am not an expert, but spent the night reading. Isn't GpsGate a way to fake out Nav programs into thinking they have sats when it is really aGPS that is being translated into sats?

    So if you have GPSGate on wouldn't TomTom think it has the GPS working when it doesn't?
    It is my understanding that I am using GPSGate only because TomTom 6 doesn't have an option for selecting Internal GPS. GPSGate allows you to send the internal gps signal to a virtual com port which TomTom 6 can then use. I used this same config with gpsgate and tomtom6 when i used my actual Holuz GPSlim bluetooth reciever.
  7. #47  
    I have a brand new 800w that has never been activated. I ran GPSGate but it cannot find the receiver on any port. This is at an outdoor location where my SiRF III GPS pulls in a signal with multiple sats.

    When GPSGate tries to open the GPS custom port COM7, the phone tries to connect to the internet. So I am a little worried at the moment but I'm sure someone will hack the GPS to make it independent.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    Thats the whole point of this thread. It appears there is. Its called GPSa and the "a" part needs sprint cell tower service to function. Nobody yet has figured out how to use just the GPS chips without GPSa.
    Obviously that's the point of the thread but I was answering Aero's question which was asking if those pieces of software worked regardless of the device (at least that's what I remember, I'm not clicking back).
    Quote Originally Posted by kwyatt View Post
    It is my understanding that I am using GPSGate only because TomTom 6 doesn't have an option for selecting Internal GPS. GPSGate allows you to send the internal gps signal to a virtual com port which TomTom 6 can then use. I used this same config with gpsgate and tomtom6 when i used my actual Holuz GPSlim bluetooth reciever.
    Huh? I used TomTom with my Mogul just fine and it worked well. I didn't need GPSGate though I may have had to setup a software com port but that's built into WM.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by kwyatt View Post
    It is my understanding that I am using GPSGate only because TomTom 6 doesn't have an option for selecting Internal GPS. GPSGate allows you to send the internal gps signal to a virtual com port which TomTom 6 can then use. I used this same config with gpsgate and tomtom6 when i used my actual Holuz GPSlim bluetooth reciever.
    Really? It is my under standing is that GPSGate can trick software such as TomTom or Garmin into thinking the aGPS and or tower info alone is actual GPS. I am getting this from the GPSGate info posted.
    So if you are using GPSGate, then in fact you are not testing the stand alone function as far as I can tell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Barring of course any odd reliance on a data signal with the Treo then yes it is correct..
    Really, respectfully that is exactly my point. And it is not a question of Garmin or TomTom's reliance of which I have been writing and asking-- but the 800w's itself.
  10. #50  
    So I just tested this out on my Mogul. If I put it into Flight mode it will not find a GPS signal (I let it sit for quite a while).

    If I take it out of Flight mode but keep the data disabled it will work very quickly. It will automatically connect to the data when it needs to download maps if I use something like Google maps but it will work without a data connection.

    So it looks like the Mogul disables GPS when in Flight mode. I'd imagine the Treo 800w is the same.

    The posts earlier said they put it into Flight mode which makes me think the Treoo 800w works the same. As far as I know, no one as tried it with just disabling data so I'm thinking this whole thread is just a large amount of mis-information.

    Of course since I don't own a Treo 800w yet, I cannot verify 100%.
  11. intomed's Avatar
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    #51  
    I don't know if this helps...

    I just turned my phone off (radio off) and started up my Garmin XT software. On the main screen, there are no bars filled in for reception. However, when I choose a destination, Garmin immediately maps out the correct route. Furthermore, when I look up the GPS Info (option within the Garmin software), I get no less than 5 connections to GPS satellites and that is from inside my house. When I step outside, that number climbs to 10 or 11 satellites.
  12. gottspd's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    So I just tested this out on my Mogul. If I put it into Flight mode it will not find a GPS signal (I let it sit for quite a while).

    If I take it out of Flight mode but keep the data disabled it will work very quickly. It will automatically connect to the data when it needs to download maps if I use something like Google maps but it will work without a data connection.

    So it looks like the Mogul disables GPS when in Flight mode. I'd imagine the Treo 800w is the same.

    The posts earlier said they put it into Flight mode which makes me think the Treoo 800w works the same. As far as I know, no one as tried it with just disabling data so I'm thinking this whole thread is just a large amount of mis-information.

    Of course since I don't own a Treo 800w yet, I cannot verify 100%.
    That's not accurate. I used my Mogul as a portable GPS device for several weeks after I switched my service to a 700WX and TomTom6 worked fine without a cell connection. I hope that there is a way to get the 800W to do that as well.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    So I just tested this out on my Mogul. If I put it into Flight mode it will not find a GPS signal (I let it sit for quite a while).

    If I take it out of Flight mode but keep the data disabled it will work very quickly. It will automatically connect to the data when it needs to download maps if I use something like Google maps but it will work without a data connection.

    So it looks like the Mogul disables GPS when in Flight mode. I'd imagine the Treo 800w is the same.

    The posts earlier said they put it into Flight mode which makes me think the Treoo 800w works the same. As far as I know, no one as tried it with just disabling data so I'm thinking this whole thread is just a large amount of mis-information.

    Of course since I don't own a Treo 800w yet, I cannot verify 100%.
    Nope. You didn't fix the registry entry then. A simple change will enable GPS in Flight Mode on the Mogul and possibly on the 800w (haven't tried it personally).
  14. NRG
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by intomed View Post
    I don't know if this helps...

    I just turned my phone off (radio off) and started up my Garmin XT software. On the main screen, there are no bars filled in for reception. However, when I choose a destination, Garmin immediately maps out the correct route. Furthermore, when I look up the GPS Info (option within the Garmin software), I get no less than 5 connections to GPS satellites and that is from inside my house. When I step outside, that number climbs to 10 or 11 satellites.
    This is what leads me to believe that it pulls sat info. A reset will flush the sat data. Turn the phone off, reset, leave phone off, then try Garmin and see what you get.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Nope. You didn't fix the registry entry then. A simple change will enable GPS in Flight Mode on the Mogul and possibly on the 800w (haven't tried it personally).
    I sure wish somebody would try it so we could put this thing to bed. This is the one thing that is really bugging me about this phone. I really want to run Garmin XT but I want to be able to do it where there is no cell coverage.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    The posts earlier said they put it into Flight mode which makes me think the Treoo 800w works the same. As far as I know, no one as tried it with just disabling data so I'm thinking this whole thread is just a large amount of mis-information.

    Of course since I don't own a Treo 800w yet, I cannot verify 100%.
    I can disable data, by manipulating the connection settings for power vision. I can confirm that the gps works without data. However I would rather test it by disabling the data and doing a soft boot. Problem is after a soft boot, the connection for power vision resets to default. Also how do we know the gps data is not pulling data from Location Privacy or the phone radio itself?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by wrecks View Post
    I can disable data, by manipulating the connection settings for power vision. I can confirm that the gps works without data. However I would rather test it by disabling the data and doing a soft boot. Problem is after a soft boot, the connection for power vision resets to default. Also how do we know the gps data is not pulling data from Location Privacy or the phone radio itself?

    According to the link with a article on aGPS posted earlier in this thread, data has nothing to do with it. aGPS needs to be able to see the cell towers and uses them to assist the GPS satellites. Therefore I would surmise that all that is needed is to have the phone radio on and have reception. Data connection is not necessary except if you are using software that needs to download maps.
    If you can see the GPS satellites with the phone radio off then you are using GPS otherwise if the phone radio is on you are using aGPS. We need someone to figure out how to hack the registry so we can use our GPS software without any cell reception.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    Obviously that's the point of the thread but I was answering Aero's question which was asking if those pieces of software worked regardless of the device (at least that's what I remember, I'm not clicking back).
    What I am interested in know for sure is whether it will work with Garmin, TomTom etc with no cell phone connection available, i.e. "stand alone" gps as stated.

    The question goes to whether I should be able to take this handset with me for example on a trip to Europe, to use it for getting my email and browsing the web on the wifi you can find from Copenhagen to Kathmandu, AND use it for walking tours and getting around in unfamiliar foreign cities (with appropriate maps for given software already on my sdhc) as would be expected from the term "stand alone GPS." I mean it has wm6.1 and a gps.

    Also there are also lots and lots of places in the US, for example that you might go in back country hiking where there is no cdma.

    The answer seems to be that some think not, some think so, and that installs such as gpsgate might lead some into thinking stand alone works when it may not.

    Short of going offshore I am wondering if there is a definitive method to find out. (Leaving, of course, the exercise of actually asking Palm to a more brave and stalwart soul).
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by msgott View Post
    That's not accurate. I used my Mogul as a portable GPS device for several weeks after I switched my service to a 700WX and TomTom6 worked fine without a cell connection. I hope that there is a way to get the 800W to do that as well.
    You still get reception until you turn the entire radio off (i.e. flight mode) regardless if you disconnected it.
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Nope. You didn't fix the registry entry then. A simple change will enable GPS in Flight Mode on the Mogul and possibly on the 800w (haven't tried it personally).
    Interesting. Has anyone tried this on the 800w yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by wrecks View Post
    I can disable data, by manipulating the connection settings for power vision. I can confirm that the gps works without data. However I would rather test it by disabling the data and doing a soft boot. Problem is after a soft boot, the connection for power vision resets to default. Also how do we know the gps data is not pulling data from Location Privacy or the phone radio itself?
    Why not put it into flight mode, reboot and make the modification then turn flight mode off? That should be a perfect test.
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    According to the link with a article on aGPS posted earlier in this thread, data has nothing to do with it. aGPS needs to be able to see the cell towers and uses them to assist the GPS satellites. Therefore I would surmise that all that is needed is to have the phone radio on and have reception. Data connection is not necessary except if you are using software that needs to download maps.
    If you can see the GPS satellites with the phone radio off then you are using GPS otherwise if the phone radio is on you are using aGPS. We need someone to figure out how to hack the registry so we can use our GPS software without any cell reception.
    You should be able to use it without cell reception. The Treo 800w, accord to Palm, has standalone GPS and A-GPS.

    So far it sounds to me like GPS only gets disabled in Flight mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    The answer seems to be that some think not, some think so, and that installs such as gpsgate might lead some into thinking stand alone works when it may not.
    According to Palm it has standalone GPS and A-GPS so it should work. So I'd be incliend to believe it works. The evidence from this thread so far seems to indicate that Flight mode disables GPS but it should still work with the Phone and Data off. The registry hack from the Mogul may work to use it in Flight mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Short of going offshore I am wondering if there is a definitive method to find out. (Leaving, of course, the exercise of actually asking Palm to a more brave and stalwart soul).
    I'd say so. Take a Palm Treo 800w, disable the phone (but do not put in flight mode). Reset and see if it works.
  20. gottspd's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasracer View Post
    You still get reception until you turn the entire radio off (i.e. flight mode) regardless if you disconnected it.
    I had no service on the phone and the phone was off. I made no reg. hacks to the mogul to do this.
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