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  1. #261  
    I don't find the GPS issue to be a 30 day return concern. It's a product warranty issue. Because the product does not perform up to specs. The product has a "defect". A defect that Palm has been made aware of, so it's incumbent upon them to resolve the issue.

    None of us want a lawsuit, because if there was a lawsuit over this it would be a slam dunk and given we know Palm as a company is already hurting, we don't want a lawsuit that might cripple Palm more or flat out kill the company.
  2. #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    None of us want a lawsuit, because if there was a lawsuit over this it would be a slam dunk and given we know Palm as a company is already hurting, we don't want a lawsuit that might cripple Palm more or flat out kill the company.
    Have faith in Palm. They are more than capable of killing themselves without any outside help
  3. #263  
    darnell,

    once again I said it is dumb to keep a device assuming the problem will be fixed, when there are no guarantees it will.

    why would I tell someone to return it if the function doesn't really matter to them? That's *my* situation afterall!

    I didn't tell a specific person that their decision to keep the 800w was dumb, it was a general comment that people should not expect fixes, sorry I'm a realist.

    And if I had...dun dun dun, it would be my opinion (i'm allowed to have one, no?)

    go back and read what I actually wrote.

    If I came to you today and said "Hey I really need a phone with full GPS" would you recommend the 800w? If you told me "yes" I'd find your recommendation dumb, there I said it. lol

    this once again is...arguing for the sake of arguing. this is so dumb. ;-) (who's gonna fight with me on that one?)
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/28/2008 at 01:56 PM.
  4. #264  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    darnell,

    once again I said it is dumb to keep a device assuming the problem will be fixed, when there are no guarantees it will.
    Would people say much if they "assumed" Palm would fix this? Nobody is assuming anything.

    I didn't tell a specific person that their decision to keep the 800w was dumb, it was a general comment that people should not expect fixes, sorry I'm a realist.
    It's more like obfuscation. You made an assertion and now are trying to claim you never said it because you never applied an individual name to it.

    And if I had...dun dun dun, it would be my opinion (i'm allowed to have one, no?)
    Yes and of our own opinion, some of us have told you we disagree with you. We are also allowed to have one, no?

    go back and read what I actually wrote.
    Yea I did and you should not claim people are "dumb" if they choose to keep the device.

    this once again is...arguing for the sake of arguing. this is so lame.
    You're calling something lame when you continue to keep it going.

    Notice, new users are coming on and also running into issues with the GPS. The discussion needs to keep going.
  5. #265  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Would people say much if they "assumed" Palm would fix this? Nobody is assuming anything.


    It's more like obfuscation. You made an assertion and now are trying to claim you never said it because you never applied an individual name to it.


    Yes and of our own opinion, some of us have told you we disagree with you. We are also allowed to have one, no?


    Yea I did and you should not claim people are "dumb" if they choose to keep the device.


    You're calling something lame when you continue to keep it going.

    Notice, new users are coming on and also running into issues with the GPS. The discussion needs to keep going.
    I disagree.

    ...and done!

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  6. klmsu19's Avatar
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    #266  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I don't find the GPS issue to be a 30 day return concern. It's a product warranty issue. Because the product does not perform up to specs. The product has a "defect". A defect that Palm has been made aware of, so it's incumbent upon them to resolve the issue.

    None of us want a lawsuit, because if there was a lawsuit over this it would be a slam dunk and given we know Palm as a company is already hurting, we don't want a lawsuit that might cripple Palm more or flat out kill the company.
    100% agree we talked about similar stuff in my law school class today. Its a warranty and false advertising issue. Returning the phone is one possible remedy not something someone should have to do. People like the device besides the gps, but want gps to fully work. Theres no other front facing qwerty phone to go to in this case if you do simply return it. And not everyone got it through sprint (ebay, craigslist) to have a 30 day return period, they are just out the difference for what they can sell it off for.

    There's no "good" remedy at this point. Class actions take years and do nothing for the group bringing the action. Awareness is the #1 best way to start to make a change. Masses have way more power than one single person. I dont think an online petition does much, but something of those sorts with everyone contacting Palm, and they see the number of complaint, can get the true message through.
  7. #267  
    Quote Originally Posted by klmsu19 View Post
    100% agree we talked about similar stuff in my law school class today. Its a warranty and false advertising issue. Returning the phone is one possible remedy not something someone should have to do. People like the device besides the gps, but want gps to fully work. Theres no other front facing qwerty phone to go to in this case if you do simply return it. And not everyone got it through sprint (ebay, craigslist) to have a 30 day return period, they are just out the difference for what they can sell it off for.

    There's no "good" remedy at this point. Class actions take years and do nothing for the group bringing the action. Awareness is the #1 best way to start to make a change. Masses have way more power than one single person. I dont think an online petition does much, but something of those sorts with everyone contacting Palm, and they see the number of complaint, can get the true message through.
    Great post. Good to see that a few people in this thread truly understand the situation.
  8. #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Great post. Good to see that a few people in this thread truly understand the situation.
    A few people have suggested things to do... so many understand the situation... I know it is hard to follow the thread with so much rubbish in between good posts.
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  9. hlazar's Avatar
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    #269  
    haven't you guys figured out that Sprint probably insisted on the limitation. The 850ls (unlinked to a carrior) gps apparently doesn't have the problem
  10. #270  
    Quote Originally Posted by hlazar View Post
    haven't you guys figured out that Sprint probably insisted on the limitation. The 850ls (unlinked to a carrior) gps apparently doesn't have the problem
    I think we've all figured that could be the case, but it only means that Sprint is party to false advertising. Because Sprint even on their own web site claim the Treo 800w has: (click the full feature listing)
    GPS Capable

    Autonomous and simultaneous GPS using Sprint Navigation for turn by turn directions, and points of interest searches.
    The Treo 800w GPS currently is never allowed to work as an autonomous unit. So the device does not work as advertised. The more who knew about this at Sprint and Palm, the worse this whole thing is. But we know now that they've been notified of the defect in the device, that does not meet advertised specifications. The Treo 850/Pro is from what reviews are saying, working as an autonomous and simultaneous unit, which is what both Sprint and Palm are advertising for the Treo 800w.

    Sprint is not in the best of shape either. They don't need a lawsuit any more than Palm. I hope they resolve this, because the lock is in their software and they can patch it.
  11. chong67's Avatar
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    #271  
    If you guys must must depend on GPS, then get a external BT receiver. It only cost less than $50.

    I use GSPGate and it pair just like that without going thru Microsoft Control Panel for BT. Its quite neat.
  12. #272  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    If you guys must must depend on GPS, then get a external BT receiver. It only cost less than $50.

    I use GSPGate and it pair just like that without going thru Microsoft Control Panel for BT. Its quite neat.
    Given the Treo 800w is supposed to have stand alone GPS, it's Sprint and/or Palm that should be giving those to everyone if they are unable to provide a patch. (Just as they gave away free SD cards before they patched space issues in the Treo 650.) But this is a software lock of their own making, they can patch it and should.
  13. chong67's Avatar
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    #273  
    So no Sprint network, no GPS working.

    Thats pretty scary if your life depend on the GPS.
  14. aixguru's Avatar
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    #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Given the Treo 800w is supposed to have stand alone GPS, it's Sprint and/or Palm that should be giving those to everyone if they are unable to provide a patch. (Just as they gave away free SD cards before they patched space issues in the Treo 650.)
    Why would Palm provide such a giveaway when they clearly document on their website that GPS may not be available at all times. Not trying to be argumentative just curious why you think they should.

    "GPS not available in all areas at all times. Requires an account and data services at additional cost."
    Last edited by aixguru; 08/29/2008 at 05:22 PM.
  15. klmsu19's Avatar
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    #275  
    because in other areas of their site (or theyve changed it by now predicating a bait and switch) they did say assisted and stand-alone. You cant say one thing one place and another in another place, thats called illegal on many counts let alone false advertising. Even if it was a screw-up they are liable for what specs they post on their site.

    No one's asking for a handout, we just want the obvious programming issue fixed. The hardware is capable.
  16. #276  
    Quote Originally Posted by aixguru View Post
    Why would Palm provide such a giveaway when they clearly document on their website that GPS may not be available at all times. Not trying to argumentative just curious why you think they should.

    "GPS not available in all areas at all times. Requires an account and data services at additional cost."
    Because on... http://www.palm.com/us/products/smar...00w/specs.html it states Built-in GPS (standalone and assisted).

    This isn't the case if a data connection is required to utilize the GPS portion.

    For many this will never be an issue, but for those of it who it is- there are two general opinions-

    We should return our phones.
    Or Palm should fix the phone as it was advertised to work.
  17. aixguru's Avatar
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    #277  
    Quote Originally Posted by klmsu19 View Post
    because in other areas of their site (or theyve changed it by now predicating a bait and switch) they did say assisted and stand-alone. You cant say one thing one place and another in another place, thats called illegal on many counts let alone false advertising. Even if it was a screw-up they are liable for what specs they post on their site.
    Far enough, but there seems to be enough conflicting information that it will be tough to prove one way or the other. I noticed it's even documented in the "Sprint 800w Pocket Sales Guide" that was leaked on this site before the phone was released. I'm not saying Sprint/Palm has done the right thing just stating it will be tough to prove. Nevertheless, I hope they enable this functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by klmsu19 View Post
    No one's asking for a handout, we just want the obvious programming issue fixed. The hardware is capable.
    Wasn't stating anyone wanted a handout. It might be a simple fact that Palm/Sprint intentionally crippled the standalone functionality for one reason or another, but neglected to update the website accordingly. It's interesting the Treo Pro has this disclaimer as well.
  18. #278  
    Quote Originally Posted by aixguru View Post
    Why would Palm provide such a giveaway when they clearly document on their website that GPS may not be available at all times. Not trying to be argumentative just curious why you think they should.

    "GPS not available in all areas at all times. Requires an account and data services at additional cost."
    Read some of the prior comments and even a law student's thoughts on the matter. It's all in here. Perhaps that will help you better understand. Their talk about availability of GPS services has nothing to do with the terms "stand alone and assisted". Those are very industry specific terms. Every service provider notes services might not always be available. That's not the core issue, but rather the fact Palm and Sprint are marketing a device as having "stand alone and assisted" GPS when it does not.

    Hey, I really didn't fully understand it all at first, but please read more of the comments. In time I understood why Palm and Sprint would want to make this a high priority issue, real fast.
  19. chong67's Avatar
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    #279  
    OK, so who is right here?

    Maybe a lawyer will do a class action lawsuit. Sprint is already poor as it is now.

    Crippling the GPS just doesnt make sense. They didnt that on the Mogul.
  20. aixguru's Avatar
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    #280  
    Quote Originally Posted by grant516 View Post
    Because on... http://www.palm.com/us/products/smar...00w/specs.html it states Built-in GPS (standalone and assisted).
    Again, depending on where you look there's conflicting information. My point is it will be tough to prove that Palm/Sprint intentionally crippled this functionality or not. I'm not defending either of them just stating my observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by grant516 View Post
    This isn't the case if a data connection is required to utilize the GPS portion.
    I understand the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by grant516 View Post
    For many this will never be an issue, but for those of it who it is- there are two general opinions-

    We should return our phones.
    Or Palm should fix the phone as it was advertised to work.
    You also have the option of buying a dedicated GPS and keeping the 800w. I travel my state for a living and would never depend on the 800w for a full time GPS even if they enable this functionality. But, I constantly use the 800w's GPS capabilities along with my dedicated Garmin during my travels. In the end, my hope is they resolve this along with a few other issues.

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