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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by Palm_forlackofchoice View Post
    So with the Mogul, if you launch TomTom6 with no other app running it will navigate?

    I have tried most every combination of settings in the GPS setting section in the Touch and cannot get GPS in TomTom until I use Live Search and say get GPS position, then I can launch TomTom on my Touch and it will work.
    Don't use TT, but the stand alone GPS works on the Mogul with no need to seek a cell signal...that is all I meant.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    You are, unfortunately wrong. I have tried it with gamin, tomtom and igo. with and without gpsgate. I've had them all working with radio off in the states, but it wont work overseas. even with the radio off the 800w initiates a request to a tower (agps only).

    Sprint and Palm know it wont work without a tower.
    You are correct. No standalone GPS. No way. No how.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by crazie.eddie View Post
    The 800w GPS is not locked.
    Just for precision Palm latest response there is some kind of qualcomm license agreement prohibiting GPS outside of CDMA. Whether this is true (and it appears so), somewhat true or not at all perhaps someone more familiar with qualcomm licensing and gps implementation can say here.
  4. #224  
    Just got in from Canada (Toronto) and unfortunately had no luck with the GPS on my Treo 800w or my friends.

    Despite being able to roam, data roaming I suppose was not available and thus the GPS could not get a lock or even work.

    'in Treo 800w... this is the second time that GPS BS has failed me.

    Hate to say it, though there are people stating about the one time one might be in a weird situation where they need GPS without Sprint function, but I was certainly there once again.

    Starting to feel like this issue wont be promptly resolved, and I might take a fight up with Sprint on it.
  5. chong67's Avatar
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    #225  
    Even if you are using the GPSGate, it will not work on the TT7 when you are out of Sprint network?

    I bet an external BT GPS will work.

    But Sprint GPS need data, so it need the Sprint network ???
  6. #226  
    I posted this in another thread here about gps not working without Sprint coverage, but to repeat.

    GPS did not work when I was out of the u.s. where only gsm networks were present out of the box. No cdma providers so it provided the perfect testing area.

    A member here suggested to force to the phone to roam only (Settings/Phone/Services/Roaming/"Roaming networks only") to force the standalone mode. And after trying for a while, it just worked somehow - I couldn't get it working after that. I connected to 6 satellites in the ##gps# screen. Going into TomTom with gpsgate I saw the 6 satellites too (with the blue bar graph strength). Exiting that screen in TomTom to the main screen it said I lost the gps. That was the only time it actually worked - I tried for another few minutes with no luck. Btw, I'm not saying this means it works and palm/sprint doesn't need to fix it, just that it worked for me that one time.

    Testing an external gps (OnCourse GPS Bluetooth made by GlobalSat) works fine in TomTom using gpsgate as it should.


    btw, anyone know why in ##gps# it counts on top and other times it doesn't? When it did work for me, the "PosEv:" counted up.
    Last edited by opacityzero; 08/25/2008 at 10:31 AM.
  7. rdcsdal's Avatar
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    #227  
    I recently returned from a trip from CA to FL and had no problem getting the GPS to work in the plane (both ways) with the Sprint service off (Plane mode). I couldn't use the Palm Map program or Google Maps because they need an internet connection to download maps of your location(Google Maps did give me a dot on a blank field). I used NoniGPSPlot (freeware program) which gave me altitude, speed, Lat/Long positions, etc... I also used a chart program I use for boating called Pocket Navigator. With Pocket Navigator I had to have a chart of the area we were flying through to see my location, but it worked. It tracked my location as we flew over areas covered by the chart.

    When I started the test I held the phone up to the window of the plane and it took a few minutes for it to pick up the satellites.

    I'm not sure if it made a difference but I dialed the ##gps#, hit Menu and then selected Get GPS Position. I also selected GPS Tracking in the Menu selection screen. Again, I'm not sure if that made any difference.

    Now all I need to find is a program that has downloadable road maps so I can use that when driving outside of service areas. I can just put them on the SD card so I don't use up phone memory.

    That seems to be the biggest problem with the GPS. You have to have downloaded maps to use it outside of an internet connection. The GPS has no other way of showing you where you are without that.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by grant516 View Post
    Starting to feel like this issue wont be promptly resolved, and I might take a fight up with Sprint on it.
    You have (had?) 30 days with the device and presumably know the limitations (since you're in this thread).

    Not sure what the "fight" would be about since you should just return it if it does not meet your needs. I would think this would be obvious by now.

    The dumbest thing I see people doing with smartphones is assuming an "issue" will be fixed. Sure it's nice to hope, but unless a company says "yes, we will fix it" I would never, never stick with a device assuming it will be addressed. That's just being a bad consumer.

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  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    You have (had?) 30 days with the device and presumably know the limitations (since you're in this thread).

    Not sure what the "fight" would be about since you should just return it if it does not meet your needs. I would think this would be obvious by now.

    The dumbest thing I see people doing with smartphones is assuming an "issue" will be fixed. Sure it's nice to hope, but unless a company says "yes, we will fix it" I would never, never stick with a device assuming it will be addressed. That's just being a bad consumer.
    You shouldn't call members dumb. He has a legitimate claim. It says right on Palm's website "Assisted and Standalone" in the feature list. Technically there could be a lawsuit here if someone wanted to go all the way with it. Making excuses and telling users to return it is not a fix either.
    ATT History- From 1997-2001-> Nokia 6362->Motorola StarTac->Nokia 8260.

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  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    You have (had?) 30 days with the device and presumably know the limitations (since you're in this thread).

    Not sure what the "fight" would be about since you should just return it if it does not meet your needs. I would think this would be obvious by now.
    .
    False. With an advertised feature you dont have 30 days, you have any amount of time. Palm will have trouble for as long as it remains unfixed for any user who bought it while they advertised Standalone (and they still do).

    By the way it is obvious users would not even find this out until they took a trip outside of Sprint coverage. That might be 60 days or 120 days and just when they needed it the most it would not work.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantRedGT View Post
    You shouldn't call members dumb. He has a legitimate claim. It says right on Palm's website "Assisted and Standalone" in the feature list. Technically there could be a lawsuit here if someone wanted to go all the way with it. Making excuses and telling users to return it is not a fix either.
    Yes it is strange. If WiFi were not working when there was no Sprint conenction a lot of users might not know it until after 30 days, and I wonder if Malatesta would be calling those people dumb?

    Why post ANY bugs? Why are their threads in which Malatesta himself is noting bugs in some devices? Is he "dumb" for doing so?

    Now he is saying the customers are bad? Blame the customer for advertised and hawked features that are not working?
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    False. With an advertised feature you dont have 30 days, you have any amount of time. Palm will have trouble for as long as it remains unfixed for any user who bought it while they advertised Standalone (and they still do).

    By the way it is obvious users would not even find this out until they took a trip outside of Sprint coverage. That might be 60 days or 120 days and just when they needed it the most it would not work.
    Aero, get a grip.

    My point is if they don't like the phone to return it and get something that works--your comment does not change any of that. The fact that that poster is on TC/WMExperts and is reading this forum suggests that they know or knew about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Just for precision Palm latest response there is some kind of qualcomm license agreement prohibiting GPS outside of CDMA. Whether this is true (and it appears so), somewhat true or not at all perhaps someone more familiar with qualcomm licensing and gps implementation can say here.
    It appears the Sprint BB 8830 "World Phone" also does not have standalone GPS, though Sprint/RIM advertises as such.

    There seems to be a pattern here though I do not know why it is (HTC uses Qualcomm too, so that argument seems odd though somewhat consistent):

    Sprint 8830 bait and switch? - 07-29-2008, 02:44 PM
    I am on my first international trip with the 8830, Brussels and Amsterdam. I bought the phone in order to have one number and the same functionality in the US as internationally.

    It turns out this is not the case. Sprint will bait and switch you on this one. I have no ability to send or receive SMS text messages, and no GPS functionality whatsoever. As soon as I switched out of CDMA, both these features went dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Now he is saying the customers are bad? Blame the customer for advertised and hawked features that are not working?
    Why are you picking fights Aero?

    I'm not blaming the customer, but if the customer is not happy they should return the device, end of story. Why is that dumb? It's dumb to keep a phone that is not working as advertised /living up to your expectations expecting it to be fixed. It's dumb to keep it and keep whining about it in a forum. It's even more dumb to not even own the phone but still troll complaining about it.

    I wish people would stop playing victim in a free market where you have ample time and resources to try out different devices. You are not slaves to a phone or brand or a carrier. Palm should either clarify or fix this problem--I have always said as much, but I'm not holding my breath either.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/25/2008 at 04:22 PM.

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  13. chong67's Avatar
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    #233  
    I do not understand if I use TT7 and GPSGate, I still need to get be in Sprint network? So if I dont have Sprint signal, I cannot use the GPS?
  14. #234  
    The point of my commentary on the thread is not to gripe or whine.
    I was merely pointing out I went into another CDMA provider's network and could not use the GPS function-

    I'm sure many people on here may travel to and from Canada and I was sharing with them an experience.

    While I knew my phone wouldn't work where I have no coverage- it was a shocker for me to learn it didn't work even where I did just because it was an off "America's Choice" (or whatever it's called) roaming network.


    People I think are making a gripe about this because it's a feature that is advertised and expected AND POSSIBLE with the phone.
    It has LONG ANGERED customers in CDMA networks to have to put up with nonsense locking and crippling of features in our handsets because of poor business practices.

    If this were such a -free and open market- we wouldn't have limiting 2 year contracts or Sprint refusing to activate other CDMA handsets on their network.

    It's a standalone feature- this is a PDA 'all in one' device.
    It has a camera, and a music player, a gps, AND a PHONE. (and more)
    None of those other things should be affected by your account status or current coverage by Sprint.

    I would exchange my phone for a better suited match, sadly none of which are currently available on my carrier that I am locked into and have solid coverage with.
  15. #235  
    I found this thread after discovering this issue myself, after finding that the GPS in my Treo 800w worked great driving out to a camping trip last weekend, but would not work on the way home (as the internal GPS can't establish the initial satellite fix without a Sprint network connection, which seems to have been well established on this and other forums). I own TomTom Navigator 6 and was disappointed to find that I couldn't use it outside the city... also I'm going to be leaving for a trip to Europe next week, and was hoping to be able to use my Treo's GPS for navigation -- but apparently it isn't going to work there.

    What I am wondering is, has anyone else had luck contacting Palm to get some straight information on this issue? I first contacted Sprint technical support, and they told me I needed to contact Palm. I had an online chat session with Palm technical support, and after a great deal of runaround, I was given a service request # and told I need to call their (voice) technical support to further troubleshoot the issue. I called Palm technical support this morning, and after still more runaround, was finally able to get the support rep to tell me that yes, this issue had been reported to Palm engineering. However, I couldn't get an answer out of him as to whether it was a bug that they were working on fixing (or at least planned to), or whether it was a feature that was deliberately implemented this way.

    I would really like to give Palm the benefit of the doubt -- that this is just a bug that will be fixed in due time. I sincerely hope that the GPS has not been deliberately crippled due to political or marketing reasons -- like many others I would feel quite deceived since the 800w is clearly advertised as having "standalone" GPS.

    Anyone else who owns a Treo 800w and would like this issue fixed: have you tried calling Palm and have you been able to get any more information on the issue?
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by jedihamster View Post
    I own TomTom Navigator 6 and was disappointed to find that I couldn't use it outside the city... also I'm going to be leaving for a trip to Europe next week, and was hoping to be able to use my Treo's GPS for navigation -- but apparently it isn't going to work there
    I don't think you are able to use the CDMA phone in Europe.
  17. #237  
    As I said before the Treo 800w GPS actually WORKS with the radio off. Download BeelineGPS, turn off the radio, set GPS port to COM0 on the GPS control panel and fire BeelineGPS...it will find the GPS port and start getting position data with no data connection at all!

    What this program is unable to get is satelite signal information (as I get on the Mogul) so if you look at the screen it seems there is no signal, but when you start driving you will immediately get speed, altitute, heading, etc. WITHOUT any data connection.

    If you fire Live Search and go to map you will get no map but selecting Center on GPS, you will see the gray arrow turn red and follow your movements - WITHOUT any radio signal needed.

    The GPS is stand alone but there seems to be a bug in the information regarding satelite signal strength - if this affects Tom Tom, Garmin and other programs I don't know, what I do know is the GPS works in stand alone mode!!
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    As I said before the Treo 800w GPS actually WORKS with the radio off. Download BeelineGPS, turn off the radio, set GPS port to COM0 on the GPS control panel and fire BeelineGPS...it will find the GPS port and start getting position data with no data connection at all!

    What this program is unable to get is satelite signal information (as I get on the Mogul) so if you look at the screen it seems there is no signal, but when you start driving you will immediately get speed, altitute, heading, etc. WITHOUT any data connection.

    If you fire Live Search and go to map you will get no map but selecting Center on GPS, you will see the gray arrow turn red and follow your movements - WITHOUT any radio signal needed.

    The GPS is stand alone but there seems to be a bug in the information regarding satelite signal strength - if this affects Tom Tom, Garmin and other programs I don't know, what I do know is the GPS works in stand alone mode!!
    Have you tried performing a soft reset AFTER turning off the phone radio? I've performed allot of test just turning off the phone radio and all the GPS apps I used worked for the length of time I ran it (about 30-45 minutes). Unfortunately, I cannot get them to work if I performed a soft reset, after turning off the phone radio. Strangely, I'm sure it worked once, but I can't duplicate my results.
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm not blaming the customer, but if the customer is not happy they should return the device, end of story. Why is that dumb? It's dumb to keep a phone that is not working as advertised /living up to your expectations expecting it to be fixed. It's dumb to keep it and keep whining about it in a forum. It's even more dumb to not even own the phone but still troll complaining about it.

    I wish people would stop playing victim in a free market where you have ample time and resources to try out different devices. You are not slaves to a phone or brand or a carrier. Palm should either clarify or fix this problem--I have always said as much, but I'm not holding my breath either.
    Look at your tone throughout this issue. I think it is unhelpful. Let's look at an EXACT analogy.

    What if WifI were not working without a Sprint CDMA signal and 800w was advertised as having WiFi. How would you feel if when you and others mentioned it, created threads, noted it on bug lists, I patronizingly followed your comments with comments akin to yours above?

    WiFi is not living up to your expectations so you are "playing victim", you should not tell people who don;t yet know, not try and advocate others bring the issue to the attention of palm but instead you "should return the device, end of story"?

    "It's dumb to keep it", noting it on bug lists is "whining".

    I think you generally have astute, expert, and helpful knowledge which you share and provide in a very well written and thoughtful way. I've said so before I think you are a major resource. Ok. Thank you!

    Now I can tell what is happening here. You seem to be looking at this as though we bought a DVR or technology item with a 30 day return period. Perhaps that is because you review devices, handle a lot of them and get what ever is new every four months.

    I am not implying anything unethical. I don't think being a reviewer who may (or may not) get test or final devices at promotional arrangements means anything bad. But I think you are blinded to the fact that for almost all buyers this is a two year investment. That is the way to look at cell phone handsets in the US. I am certain that 95% or more of those of us here re-signed their contract and committed to two years when buying (indeed because of) the 800W.

    Example: People tied into AT&T solely on the basis of the iPhone. Now you will say but the iPhone does have problems. yes it does! OK But Would it really be right to be on those forums saying, take it or leave it as is to people who considered the feature in question as an important part of their buying decision?

    I am glad you are now saying palm should fix it. I don't know what you mean by "clarify" unless you mean redefine standalone, in which case tehy could just as essily redifine wifi. Really my friend, ok, Assted GPS is not standalone -- I get it. "Autonomous GPS" is not standalone", ok, maybe. But it is ok to accept that "Standalone GPS" is now not standalone? What are we going to call actual standalone? RTWMIS-GPS? ("Really Truly and We Mean It Standaonle")

    Now in terms of getting down to the problem -- of course took more than 30 days even with a lot of question to Srpint and Palm. You know how tech support works. You get 10 bogus answers even from level two before you actually get a serious response! I actually had high level Sprint tell me twice that "no one said it was 'standalone'," before reading them the advertising copy.

    I will relate what I already know. Sprint knows it is a problem. I have an email from before 30 days saying it is broken but will be fixed. I have Palm (after 30 days) implying it cannot be fixed because of an arrangement with Qualcomm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There seems to be a pattern here though I do not know why it is (HTC uses Qualcomm too, so that argument seems odd though somewhat consistent)
    It is not "odd," it is false advertising.

    Quote Originally Posted by GFONG View Post
    I don't think you are able to use the CDMA phone in Europe.
    The point is, it is not mere CDMA "phone". It is a $600 smartphone (phoen plus pda) advertised with many features and dozens of functions one could and would use in Europe.

    Can you get your email, look something up on the web, use the camera, MP3 player etc while in Europe with the 800w? Yes.

    Again, and I am sorry, but I have never heard this analogy challenged -- can you use your WiFi in Europe? If the 800w wifi did not work in Europe because you first needed a CDMA ,would your response be "CDMA phones do not work in Europe."
  20. #240  
    Aero/BTSmith,

    I'm adding you to my ignore list.

    I'm not sure why it is you need to argue with me over things like my "tone" or nitpicking over my works like "odd" or "clarify". In fact, I'm not sure what it is you are trying to disagree with me about when I:
    • Agree that this is a problem and should be addressed
    • Customers should not put up with it if they need standalone and get their money back

    I have always agreed that Palm should rectify the problem (so it's not that I'm "now saying", implying a position change, how clever of you) but I also maintain that I don't really care since it doesn't bother me. For a handful of people, this is a big deal. They should not hold onto their devices expecting a fix as that is naivete at it's finest. For others like the HTC troll nxsprime/hippityhoppity, it's just something to keep posting on so he can tout HTC devices as being superior.

    You're like Derrida, looking for double meanings everywhere.

    When I said Palm should "clarify" what they mean, I mean just that: say that it is or is not standalone and fix the wording on their spec sheets, not for them to "redefine the term" which is a ridiculous position you are assigning me based on your super-deep readings. How do you make this stuff up?

    The Qualcomm argument is "odd" because the people who make it are forgetting contradicting information (like HTC devices), but yet there has to be something there as the Sprint Blackberry 8830 "World Phone" also cannot do GPS off the CDMA network--do you know why that is?

    I still maintain the best way for a customer to make their dislike for a product known is to return it and get their money back, not posting on a message board. You evidently disagree (why else retort against my position?).

    And don't even pretend for second to know anything about review sites and "what we get". Had you actually paid attention to when the 800w device was coming out, you would have known that I was scrambling around NYC trying to get one like everyone else (Skfny was PM'ing me alerting me to stores in Manhattan that had them). Finally I had to order it through TeleSales paying $350 and renewing my contract for 2 years, which I believe is more than your $70 that you mentioned you payed.

    No one in this biz gets "free" phones (BGR even responded to this lately; see comment #3)--they get review units which go back after the review and Dieter gets those here, so don't play the angle that I'm somehow elitist and can't relate to people. I guarantee you I make the least money here out of a lot of folks and still buy my devices in cash (Moto Q and Centro I paid full price for).

    Trying to undermine my credibility for sake of argument is the final straw as you are obviously trolling and baiting me into these dumb "fights".

    I'm done with this bickering. Last I checked this has not made the problem go away or brought it any closer to a resolution. This is just wasting my time and everyone else's, so I bid you a final adieu <plonk>.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/27/2008 at 11:54 AM. Reason: clarity/links

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