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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    It is interesting though that they had to drop the price so much to reach their 10 million target. Since when did Apple have to be the cheapest to sell.
    From what I've read they won't meet the 10m target.

    Jobs promised 10m phones in 12 months. It's been 10 months and only 5m sold (even using his figures, which some people have questions about how valid they are).


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Pooh View Post
    Probably not... but this still shocks me that "they" would rather have market share here over dollars.
    The Apple name is only going to buy you so much. Sure you got fanboys out there that will pay $$$ for the name, but 95% of your market is going to be people who vote with their wallet.

    The same exact thing happens all the time with different products. Products who rely on name to raise the price very rarely can maintain that higher price.

    A great example is Toyota. For years they've been charging a higher price for their vehicles in large because of the name. Few years back they realized that they're missing a huge market, and came out with the Scion brand to hit the $10k-$15k (new) market. And it's done extremely well. (Even though the Scion tC--$15k--is essentially a Camry--$19k--with a different body and suspension.)

    And the best part is that Toyota's done it in such a way that they can keep the premium price (for people who buy for the name) and still hit that "cheap" market.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    From what I've read they won't meet the 10m target.

    Jobs promised 10m phones in 12 months. It's been 10 months and only 5m sold (even using his figures, which some people have questions about how valid they are
    Apparently its 10 million starting from January 2008 to December 2008.

    So far they have probably done around 2.5 million, meaning they have 7.5 million to sell in 5 months. Thats a tough sell, since most of Asia, who were sucking up iPhones, dont use 3G much, and due to tough competition in the European market, even with the price drop.

    Their biggest weapon is the low price however, so we will have to see. Of note is however that the most they sold were around 2.5 million in Christmas 2007, and with everyone worrying about the economy, people may actually be wiser than Jobs thought and will actually look at the expensive contracts before buying.

    Surur
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw View Post
    In some cases (like diff 7xx models), no actually. And as I compare the headaches of many colleagues trying to use WM in the enterprise, I think POS still kicks it's *** where it counts (usability and required function). That's part of the reason why I laugh out loud when I hear or read Palm talking about Centro as being completely incapable of Enterprise use. Hogwash. My "consumer" 680 (which Centro replaced) *was* an upgrade of the "enterprise" 650 and does quite well for the same task. The difference? Marketing.

    Just because it's Windows and does Exchange don't make it Enterprise. If you think so, I've got some lovely swamp land to sell you... perfect beachfront.

    Palm is trying to position it's products without having a real story to deliver other than "well, it's Windows so it's Enterprise." ugh. Next. It'd be easier if Palm just admitted the POS is used (quite effectively, even if it is old and needs Nova badly) in the Enterprise but needs replacement. That they ever were forced down the WM path stuns me... but it's just part of that whole mismanagement extravaganza.
    You misunderstand what is driving their decision to go downmarket with the POS. No reasonable IT group is going to go through the headache of having a few POS devices deployed, and the POS and treo/centro hardware line itself is never going to go head to head against WM or BB in an enterprise environment and win. That is a fact, and that writing has been on the wall for a while now.

    So while maybe the Centro -technically speaking- might be able to function in an enterprise environment, actual deployment in the enterprise will not happen. (maybe small business though) That is why they are rightfully targeting a new demographic of users.

    -Rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber View Post
    You misunderstand what is driving their decision to go downmarket with the POS. No reasonable IT group is going to go through the headache of having a few POS devices deployed, and the POS and treo/centro hardware line itself is never going to go head to head against WM or BB in an enterprise environment and win. That is a fact, and that writing has been on the wall for a while now.
    Oh, no... I understand perfectly well the drivers. I just don't accept that a platform's market penetration spells acceptability and suitability for purpose. Hence: "Palm is trying to position it's products without having a real story to deliver other than 'well, it's Windows so it's Enterprise.'"

    And if you pay attention to the presentations, that's EXACTLY what you'll hear... "Well, yeah... [RIM, WM, etc, etc] kind of sucks for X, Y, and Z... but *everyone* uses it so it must be hot stuff!"
  5.    #45  
    The enterprise market has defined Blackberry and Windows Mobile as the only real choices, not Palm. Palm can't do anything about it, they missed their chance a few years ago. No enterprise is going to consider POS devices at this point.

    So Palm is going down market with the POS, which has worked beautifully with the Centro. Sales were way up in Q1/Q2.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  6. #46  
    I just read a news item through Google news about Verizon offering the Centro as a low cost alternative to the iPhone.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Thats a tough sell, since most of Asia, who were sucking up iPhones
    And with the new restrictions (no ordering online, only in-store and you have to activate it) it'll be extremely difficult for those folks in Asia to get it. So there goes a whole bunch of sales.


    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Their biggest weapon is the low price however, so we will have to see.
    It'll be interesting to see what the price drop does. That puts them directly into competition with some other phones which have traditionally been very popular.
  8. #48  
    The QWERTY is a big advantage until you get used to the iPhone keyboard..then it's apples & oranges.


    Are you serious? I would challenge anyone to type a paragraph with the iPhone keyboard vs. a Treo keyboard.

    I would love to lose this challenge, seriously. But I haven't met anyone who can beat me with an iPhone's keyboard. I mean I finish twice as fast, and I'm not a speed burner by any means.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by pufftissue View Post
    The QWERTY is a big advantage until you get used to the iPhone keyboard..then it's apples & oranges.


    Are you serious? I would challenge anyone to type a paragraph with the iPhone keyboard vs. a Treo keyboard.

    I would love to lose this challenge, seriously. But I haven't met anyone who can beat me with an iPhone's keyboard. I mean I finish twice as fast, and I'm not a speed burner by any means.
    Yeah, especially a paragraph with numbers, symbols, caps, etc. MagiKB and keycaps for Treos blow the iPhone away. Not even comparable.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Yeah, especially a paragraph with numbers, symbols, caps, etc. MagiKB and keycaps for Treos blow the iPhone away. Not even comparable.

    This brings up a good question, what if anything can be done faster/easier on an iPhone versus a Treo? Besides youtube I cant think of anything, but there has to be something...

    Even though the web on the iPhone is far superior in quality, it is no faster for finding tidbits. Everything else I can think of takes substantially longer.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by taroliw View Post
    Oh, no... I understand perfectly well the drivers. I just don't accept that a platform's market penetration spells acceptability and suitability for purpose. Hence: "Palm is trying to position it's products without having a real story to deliver other than 'well, it's Windows so it's Enterprise.'"

    And if you pay attention to the presentations, that's EXACTLY what you'll hear... "Well, yeah... [RIM, WM, etc, etc] kind of sucks for X, Y, and Z... but *everyone* uses it so it must be hot stuff!"
    Is anyone saying it is "hot stuff?" I think what is being said is size matters. Meaning market penetration brings efficiencies and always has -- especially in what can be can expensive proposition of adopting OS's to an IT system.

    This spells quite precisely acceptability and suitability for a purpose like enterprise.

    This thread mentions two other devices being released concurrent with the 800w now, the supposed "iPhone-killer" the instinct, and the 3g iPhone.

    As far as I can tell the instinct doesn't even qualify as a smartphone, and if you follow Samsun,g the follow-on device, the Omnia, itself has WM, making it very unlikely we are going to see any serious apps or development from Samsung or third party's.

    The iPhone is a different story. It will have very good penetration. In fact ATT is per se more enterprise with its larger number of business clients thus making ATT smart devices by definition somewhat enterprise simply based on the customer type base and size. Still it isn't going to be on the same level as Rim or WM which are firmly embedded in the class -- and growing.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Yeah, especially a paragraph with numbers, symbols, caps, etc. MagiKB and keycaps for Treos blow the iPhone away. Not even comparable.
    There are videos of guys out there doing 120 words/min on the iPhone keyboard. Hell, there are folks that can do 50+ words/min on T9. It's all about how you train yourself.

    Think about the old Graffiti for Palm. Was it as easy as simply writing the words? Of course not, but once you practiced you could could get really fast.

    The rub is the iPhone keyboard has a learning curve for sure but once you get used to it it's probably very comparable. Hardware keyboards are simply not a good use of materials, weight, or space so their days are numbered. At best you will see development of an ultra thin conductive sheet that will be utilized as a slider but even that will make way for more efficient touch screen keyboards.
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    There are videos of guys out there doing 120 words/min on the iPhone keyboard. Hell, there are folks that can do 50+ words/min on T9. It's all about how you train yourself.

    Think about the old Graffiti for Palm. Was it as easy as simply writing the words? Of course not, but once you practiced you could could get really fast.

    The rub is the iPhone keyboard has a learning curve for sure but once you get used to it it's probably very comparable. Hardware keyboards are simply not a good use of materials, weight, or space so their days are numbered. At best you will see development of an ultra thin conductive sheet that will be utilized as a slider but even that will make way for more efficient touch screen keyboards.
    If you can do 120wpm on an iPhone than you can do 240wpm on a Treo.

    I would be willing to bet any amount of money that a Treo with keycaps or magikb if MUCH faster for data entry than an iPhone when you have caps, symbols, slang, etc.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    If you can do 120wpm on an iPhone than you can do 240wpm on a Treo.

    I would be willing to bet any amount of money that a Treo with keycaps or magikb if MUCH faster for data entry than an iPhone when you have caps, symbols, slang, etc.
    I'm not arguing with you, bro. But I would be willing to see your bet and raise you ANY amount of money that 10/10 people would prefer the iPhone screen to the chintzy little square Treo screen.

    It really just comes down to this: Are you patient enough to teach yourself the keyboard? If not, then you will never like it.

    I am switching to the iPhone on 3g launch day and I am far from convinced that I will be able to handle the loss of hardware keyboard and one-handed functionality. The treo cannot be beat in these two areas IMO. Where it can be beat, and by "beat" I mean "absolutely humiliated" is in about every area of multimedia functionality. I just need basic email and doc viewing for business purposes...I don't need to rip off extended emails or edit word docs (my Treo 700w is barely powerful enough to do the latter anyway...freezes constantly) so I'm hoping I can put up with the iPhone's professional shortcomings due to its multimedia excellence. I'll find out soon enough.
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    ... I would be willing to see your bet and raise you ANY amount of money that 10/10 people would prefer the iPhone screen to the chintzy little square Treo screen.
    I would tend to agree with you, though some will "nay" purely oh philosophical grounds or based upon their specific use. I, for one, find the web browsing experience on the Treo (POS, can't speak for WM) downright painful. That said, I have found other applications that provide an alternate interface for common things (google maps, tryda, etc), and I could possibly see where some might suggest that having these alternatives (which alleviate the need to pull up the whole web interface) might suggest we can also use those same applications faster. I cede that point and say, "yes, but we're still working around a small(ish) screen and outdated stack." Maybe Palm could take a platform like iPhone and do something crazy sexy with it... but they just haven't been able to get that dog to hunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    It really just comes down to this: Are you patient enough to teach yourself the keyboard? If not, then you will never like it. I am switching to the iPhone on 3g launch day and I am far from convinced that I will be able to handle the loss of hardware keyboard and one-handed functionality. The treo cannot be beat in these two areas IMO.
    Yup, and it's true of every single device out there, since almost none of them have the same keyboards. I know that I could thumb extremely fast on my old blackberry (950 model, before phone or java or... bleh). But I wanted a combined phone, bluetooth, etc, so I got a 650 when they came out. The whole concept of having to shift numbers still pisses me off sometimes. But I got used to it. Heck, even going from the 650 to the 680 /Palm/ changed the friggin keyboard so that I had to call LudusP in to save my sanity at not having two shift keys any more, or my thumbing rate would have been further reduced. (dumb!) Although I like the new phone app, some people are so used to the old one (or think it's much more efficient in their use) that they loathe it. So Palm isn't always the gleaming light of good or even efficient user interface design.

    My only particular fear about the iPhone is that I might not be able to get away from using it in one handed situations like walking with something in my other hand or (gasp) in the car. But /maybe/ this wouldn't be such a loss... YMMV

    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    Where it can be beat, and by "beat" I mean "absolutely humiliated" is in about every area of multimedia functionality.
    Well, don't forget small things like OS stability. I have learned to live with spurious resets ever since moving to the Treo. I do indeed love this device, but there are times when i'd rather hurl it into the nearest wall and delight in watching it's pieces spray out like a fountain. People tend to wax on the love, but let it not be said that Palm's gem doesn't come with some major irritations too.

    Some might not concede the multimedia point, though, as there are indeed a number of good applications for doing this on the Treo, which don't also incidentally tie you to a single media management application (good as it is in general). I don't mean to disagree with you (I don't), but there are people who successfully do multimedia on POS. In fact, some might point this out as a shortcoming of the iPhone since it doesn't offer a removable media slot -- or enhanced storage capacity with this new hardware release.

    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    I just need basic email and doc viewing for business purposes...I don't need to rip off extended emails or edit word docs (my Treo 700w is barely powerful enough to do the latter anyway...freezes constantly) so I'm hoping I can put up with the iPhone's professional shortcomings due to its multimedia excellence. I'll find out soon enough.
    As a more or less constant email and IM user (which is 90% of what I use my Treo for), I'm actually going to hold off to see how soon a really decent IM appliation is posted for it -- I know one or two exist now, but I frankly wasn't one who wanted to spend over $500 to then have to hack the device ot make it useful. This time around, the chances are greater I can find application nirvana.

    I honestly don't think the document handling (esp editing) experience is going to be any different on the iPhone. I think it will be very nice for viewing, owing largely to it's bigger screen.

    My only remaining beef with iPhone are it's PIM apps. From what I've seen, I'm not sure it will really do all the things I've come to expect from Palm's PIM suite... and this has been Palm's bread and butter for a very long time. But if the iPhone can deliver a relevant PIM, email, and IM experience then I'm all in. Especially when you can now jump into iPhone for only $100 more than a friggin Centro -- ignoring differences in service plans. POS RIP.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Apparently its 10 million starting from January 2008 to December 2008.
    My understanding is the 10 million goal is by December 2008, inclusive of all iPhone sales. So it's basically 18 months to sell 10 million iPhones and iPhone 3G units. I think they are roughly 6-7 million sold and have been slipping badly in the past quarter.
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblerooski View Post
    It really just comes down to this: Are you patient enough to teach yourself the keyboard? If not, then you will never like it.
    It's not about patience or learning, it's about speed. Take all the time to learn the iPhone keyboard and I will crush you in typing speed with a Treo. I will beat you like a red-headed stepchild. Arguing that point just makes you sound foolish.

    I agree that the iPhone does some things very well but also does some things very poorly, or not at all. Try A2DP on your new multimedia wonder or perhaps tethering. Won't happen.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    It's not about patience or learning, it's about speed. Take all the time to learn the iPhone keyboard and I will crush you in typing speed with a Treo. I will beat you like a red-headed stepchild. Arguing that point just makes you sound foolish.

    I agree that the iPhone does some things very well but also does some things very poorly, or not at all. Try A2DP on your new multimedia wonder or perhaps tethering. Won't happen.
    The fact that I can't type one-handed is the number one reason I'm so anxious to part w/ my Mogul. What phone are you currently using NSXPrime? I can't wait to get a Treo 800w!
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by msgott View Post
    The fact that I can't type one-handed is the number one reason I'm so anxious to part w/ my Mogul. What phone are you currently using NSXPrime? I can't wait to get a Treo 800w!
    I have a Mogul but have a different dialer on mine. Much faster, bigger buttons and smartdialing works better.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by rackbreaker View Post
    B) Upgrade to iPhone: total cost of $200 for the phone + additional $30/month for the minimum AT&T plan for 2 years = $920

    I'm a longtime Mac user and I love the iPhone, but $70/month minimum plan payment is just way too much for me to consider.
    There is every indication that the boneheads at Sprint who still think that they can compete head-to-head with AT&T and Verizon, will mandate the matching $30/mo data option for ANY new Sprint smartphone, just as they have stated will be required for the Instinct. So unfortunately, that particular "+" for the new Treo (or any new Sprint smartphone), will probably be non-existent.
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