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  1.    #1  
    A while back, (August 2007 to be exact) Engadget wrote a letter to Palm about the state of it's business and the way back. I'm sure it was all over these forums. It was a great article to read then, and just as good (maybe even better) to re-read now.

    Here's the Engadget article:

    Dear Palm: It's time for an intervention

    Now consider the recent Ed Colligan/APC interview.

    What do folks think?

    With all of this talk of 2.0, more capabilities, and net-centric focus...I can't help but wonder if maybe Palm listened really hard to what Engadget had to say...

    (and another tiny spark of hope flickers up...)
    Last edited by RizP; 06/03/2008 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Link fixed
  2. #2  
    While I certainly enjoy Engadget and their writers, the idea that they somehow have altered or influenced Palm for better (or worse) is not only wishful thinking but premature.

    Any change from Palm will be from the new blood from Elevation and the former Apple execs, with their tried and tested direction--not bloggers with a chip on their shoulder pointing out very obvious shortcomings.

    Just my opinion though.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  3. #3  
    I remember that article, it was little more than a compilation of all the complaints that have been made about about Palm for years but what really stood out for me at the time was the "free advice" they gave to Palm.

    Engadget told Palm to kill the Foleo and Centro projects. Palm did kill the Foleo but they stuck with the Centro. The Centro has now sold a million units and while we'll never know how well the Foleo would have done, the Asus EeePC is very similar in size capability to the Foleo and it sold 355,000 units. If Palm had sold one sixth as many Foleos as Asus sold EeePCs, they would have made almost $30 million dollars in revenue off the Foleo instead of eating a $10 million loss. That's a pretty interesting to me and it doesn't speak well of the wisdom of the techie blogosphere.

    Finally, the one piece of advice that Engadget gave to Palm that I totally and wholeheartedly agreed with at the time is the one that they've completely ignored. Palm to this day chooses to keep its users in the dark, offering little or no information beyond the occasional leaked photo of a future device. Will the Nova OS be backwards compatible with Garnet? We don't know because Palm won't tell us. And because Palm won't tell us, we can't plan ahead with the new OS in mind.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    Finally, the one piece of advice that Engadget gave to Palm that I totally and wholeheartedly agreed with at the time is the one that they've completely ignored. Palm to this day chooses to keep its users in the dark, offering little or no information beyond the occasional leaked photo of a future device. Will the Nova OS be backwards compatible with Garnet? We don't know because Palm won't tell us. And because Palm won't tell us, we can't plan ahead with the new OS in mind.
    This is only my guess. Palm is a small company. If they give the heads-up of the new features, it is very easy for their competitors to copy. If you look at the Google's Android, you may find that some concepts are copying from iPhone. Also we found the design of a lot of new devices are copying from iPhone. If Palm cannot differentiate its products with others (especially Palm does not have the manufacturing capacity), they cannot survive.

    For the information of new products, why nobody complain about HTC and Apple. Pictures of HTC's Diamond and Apple's iPhone were available few days before the launch. Also a lot of people like to judge the final product by using the leaked pictures. Like the Centro, a lot of negative comments when people saw the leaked prototype or engineer units pictures.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    While I certainly enjoy Engadget and their writers, the idea that they somehow have altered or influenced Palm for better (or worse) is not only wishful thinking but premature.

    Any change from Palm will be from the new blood from Elevation and the former Apple execs, with their tried and tested direction--not bloggers with a chip on their shoulder pointing out very obvious shortcomings.
    I was thinking about the timing of writing it before I hit submit. I happened across the article (again) yesterday night, hence the post.

    Certainly, Palm has brought on a slew of new people I'm sure will have a major impact on the direction of Nova. That said, I would hardly consider the Engadget letter the writings of someone with a chip on their shoulder. If you want to see that, look no further than our own forums. It struck me as a letter written by people enthusiastic about seeing Palm make a comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by GFONG View Post
    This is only my guess. Palm is a small company. If they give the heads-up of the new features, it is very easy for their competitors to copy. If you look at the Google's Android, you may find that some concepts are copying from iPhone. Also we found the design of a lot of new devices are copying from iPhone. If Palm cannot differentiate its products with others (especially Palm does not have the manufacturing capacity), they cannot survive.

    For the information of new products, why nobody complain about HTC and Apple. Pictures of HTC's Diamond and Apple's iPhone were available few days before the launch. Also a lot of people like to judge the final product by using the leaked pictures. Like the Centro, a lot of negative comments when people saw the leaked prototype or engineer units pictures.
    I agree

    But what about what's been mentioned by Colligan and what was cited (or compiled or whatever) in the letter? I'm wondering if there isn't already more than a little correlation. Another example in the Engadget article. Openness with the developer community. I give you:
    Palm opens up it's Virtual Development Lab

    Now sure, you could say Palm did this to survive (the article does), but I'm sure we can all agree Palm has made foolish decisions in the past. This doesn't seem like one of them.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by GFONG View Post
    This is only my guess. Palm is a small company. If they give the heads-up of the new features, it is very easy for their competitors to copy. If you look at the Google's Android, you may find that some concepts are copying from iPhone. Also we found the design of a lot of new devices are copying from iPhone. If Palm cannot differentiate its products with others (especially Palm does not have the manufacturing capacity), they cannot survive.

    For the information of new products, why nobody complain about HTC and Apple. Pictures of HTC's Diamond and Apple's iPhone were available few days before the launch. Also a lot of people like to judge the final product by using the leaked pictures. Like the Centro, a lot of negative comments when people saw the leaked prototype or engineer units pictures.
    Ah yes, the old "competitive advantage" argument. I don't buy it anymore. I'm not asking for Palm to give up all their secrets. No one is. I'm asking if I'll be able to run the same applications I've used for years under their new OS. That's not too much to ask. I'm not asking about unique new features that will be immediately be stolen by Android (when looking at Android videos, I see stuff they've stolen not just from the iPhone but also from Palm, Symbian, and Windows Mobile). I'm asking about whether or not existing features of the PalmOS will be carried over to the new OS.

    The iPhone was brand new when it came out, there was no existing user base with thousands of applications. HTC only makes Windows Mobile phones, people know what to expect from them. Palm has a large existing user base and it's fair to ask if their new OS will work with existing applications. Palm is trying to create hype for a new OS by speaking about it in the broadest, most general terms. Sooner or later, they have to actually say something instead of nothing.
  7. #7  
    Big changes don't happen overnight - but the next generation of devices need to be big sellers if Palm is going to have enough steam to continue on with POS 2 and future Treos/Centros.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    ....while we'll never know how well the Foleo would have done, the Asus EeePC is very similar in size capability to the Foleo and it sold 355,000 units.
    The Foleo wasn't even remotely similar to the eeePC in capability. The eee runs a real OS, and does things a real computer can do. The Foleo was litle more than a keyboard and big screen for a Treo. It didn't even have it's own processor, for Pete's sake. It wasn't x86 compatible, and wouldn't run the Windows apps millions of people already use (and which the eee will run).

    To compare the two is bogus. They're totally different animals.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The Foleo wasn't even remotely similar to the eeePC in capability. The eee runs a real OS, and does things a real computer can do. The Foleo was litle more than a keyboard and big screen for a Treo. It didn't even have it's own processor, for Pete's sake. It wasn't x86 compatible, and wouldn't run the Windows apps millions of people already use (and which the eee will run).

    To compare the two is bogus. They're totally different animals.
    True, but you'll admit that the Foleo is much more than the RedFly for $499 and that seems to be getting good press (despite no processor, no OS, small KB and lower resolution)?

    I'm curious how sales will be for that device.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    True, but you'll admit that the Foleo is much more than the RedFly for $499 and that seems to be getting good press (despite no processor, no OS, small KB and lower resolution)?

    I'm curious how sales will be for that device.
    Me too. Neither device appeals to me. I'm doubtful that the Redfly will have very broad appeal, either. But I've been wrong before (not often, mind you. )
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The Foleo wasn't even remotely similar to the eeePC in capability. The eee runs a real OS, and does things a real computer can do. The Foleo was litle more than a keyboard and big screen for a Treo. It didn't even have it's own processor, for Pete's sake. It wasn't x86 compatible, and wouldn't run the Windows apps millions of people already use (and which the eee will run).

    To compare the two is bogus. They're totally different animals.
    Actually, they were very similar even if the Foleo was much more specialized and to a certain extent crippled. The Foleo had wifi, a custom flavor of Linux, an ARM processor, a better keyboard and screen than the EEE, a web browser, a version of Documents to Go optimized for its large screen, a small number of available third-party applications, and the ability to sync with a smartphone. X86 compatibility and Windows support are not the be all and end all of mobile computing -- the original EeePC didn't run Windows out of the box either. The EeePC strips down the functions of a computer to its bare essentials. The Foleo stripped down the functions of a computer to its bare essentials even more. I really don't see how they are that different.
  12. #12  
    x86 and Windows may not be the be all and end all, but it IS what the vast majority of computer users (and purchasers) want. Take the ability to run Windows apps away from the eee and I'll bet sales tank. You say the original eee didn't run Windows OOB. Which makes me think, I wonder WHY the current was does. Maybe because that's what customers want?

    There are lots of things I don't like about Windows (on both the Desktop and handheld), but sales figures don't lie.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    x86 and Windows may not be the be all and end all, but it IS what the vast majority of computer users (and purchasers) want. Take the ability to run Windows apps away from the eee and I'll bet sales tank. You say the original eee didn't run Windows OOB. Which makes me think, I wonder WHY the current was does. Maybe because that's what customers want?

    There are lots of things I don't like about Windows (on both the Desktop and handheld), but sales figures don't lie.
    Actually, the "current" EeePC doesn't necessarily run Windows either. The EeePC comes in four models. Three of them come are compatible with Windows but come with Linux pre-installed and these are the ones which sold 355,000 units. The Windows model has only recently become available.

    The point is that while Windows is very popular, the EeePC, like the Foleo was different kind of product that doesn't necessarily need Windows. It was originally meant to be a secondary laptop for e-mail and light web browsing which was also capable of editing office documents. While I'm sure that some people use the EeePC as their primary machine, I suspect that most use it as second machine so they won't have to carry around a bigger, heavier laptop.

    This is essentially what Jeff Hawkins was talking about when he kept referring to wanting to create a new product category. The EeePC is essentially what the Foleo was meant to be -- a device smaller than a traditional laptop but bigger and more capable than PDA or smartphone.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by RizP View Post
    -----
    Here's the Engadget article:

    Dear Palm: It's time for an intervention
    For the last two days I am receiving an error message when trying to look up the article: page cannot be found.

    -Wouter
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nispen View Post
    For the last two days I am receiving an error message when trying to look up the article: page cannot be found.

    -Wouter
    when you click on the link it puts two http// just delete the one that does not have the colon
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nispen View Post
    For the last two days I am receiving an error message when trying to look up the article: page cannot be found.

    -Wouter
    sorry. I fixed the link.
  17. #17  
    Funny that this is in the 850 forum. This new model is finally up to date(although they just CAN'T be right about the 32 SDRAM). Maybe it's a bit too late, but if they get it out by the end of the year, there's some hope.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #18  
    <<Palm is trying to create hype for a new OS by speaking about it in the broadest, most general terms. Sooner or later, they have to actually say something instead of nothing.>>

    No, they don't actually.

    I can think of some politicians who speak hype for something new "in the broadest, general terms"... yet they still have a large, vibrant following that will buy whatever it is they are selling. If it works for marketing political campaigns, why would it not work for marketing cellphone sales campaigns?
    (Actually- didn't Steve Jobs do this with the iphone?)

    They let leak enough "shiny" to entice us, then reel us in before we realize there was a barbed hook in the bait.

    "They" above means both political and cellphone salesmen.
    "Everybody Palm!"

    Palm III/IIIC, Palm Vx, Verizon: Treo 650, Centro, Pre+.
    Leo killed my future Pre 3 & Opal, dagnabitt!
    Should I buy a Handspring Visor instead?
    Got a Pre2! "It eats iPhones for Breakfast"!
  19. #19  
    Roger that, duane. I fully agree. Leave it to the audience's imagination.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by treosensei View Post
    Roger that, duane. I fully agree. Leave it to the audience's imagination.
    Both types of salesmen seem to conquer the "Hill" of the competition...
    "Everybody Palm!"

    Palm III/IIIC, Palm Vx, Verizon: Treo 650, Centro, Pre+.
    Leo killed my future Pre 3 & Opal, dagnabitt!
    Should I buy a Handspring Visor instead?
    Got a Pre2! "It eats iPhones for Breakfast"!
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