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  1. insol's Avatar
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       #1  
    Verizon's network is difficult to beat. Does anyone know if their open network program (the one that allows "any" phone to be used on their network), will allow the new Sprint Treo 800w to be purchased retail and then used on the VZ network?

    I used to have a hacked Sprint Treo 650 on the VZ network (thanks shadowmite) . Best experience ever: great hardware on a solid network. So now that VZ supposedly allows any compatible phone on their network... We should be able to use the Sprint 800w on VZW.... NE1 know?
    Last edited by insol; 05/27/2008 at 10:24 PM.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    Verizon's network is difficult to beat. Does anyone know if their open network program (the one that allows "any" phone to be used on their network), will allow the new Treo 800w to be purchased retail and used on the VZ network?

    I used to have one of the hacked sprint 650s (thanks shadowmite) on the VZ network. So now that VZ supposedly allows any compatible phone on their network... We should be able to use the 800w on VZW
    In theory, I do not see why it would not work. Sprint is very good in central and west texas (and I might add cheaper)
  3. insol's Avatar
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       #3  
    Yah... theory depends on VZW accepting the Sprint ESN. Even with the 650 I had to do a bit of social engineering to get the VZW CSR to authorize the ESN. The CSRs are much wiser about that these days.
  4. haus's Avatar
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    #4  
    I thought the handset still had to go through VZW's carrier testing, which (to me) meant the whole thing is lip service that will never actually benefit anybody other than makers of weird esoteric devices (like CDMA refrigerators) and people who want things like CDMA refrigerators. Because you and I won't have the patience or $$$ required to send phones into VZW's testing lab and wait long enough to see it through. I'm assuming Verizon won't offer to do this on their own dime for subscribers, and by the time you get your Sprint 800w working, Verizon may offer their own version.

    I used a hacked Sony Ericsson T608 for awhile, many years ago back when Verizon didn't check ESNs. It was as close to "SIM-swapping" as I ever got with Verizon.
  5. insol's Avatar
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       #5  
    Those certainly were the good old days. Shadowmite really made my day with that hack. I have even been thinking abt switching to sprint for the 800w but i am really worried about Sprints network. VZ has really been solid for me, but they play so many games.

    I have a XV6900 (VZ touch) now with a 6.1 ROM (GPS enabled) and I HATE the touch screen. I want the HW capabilities (GPS, EVDO RevA, 256MB memory) but hate how VZ is so protective of stuff... Even now they don't release their PDE Server (GPS Assist) port and IP... its like any decent feature (WiFi, GPS, etc.) VZW has to muck with.

    BTW: Check this thread out: Sprint Touch on VZ network... Treo 800w on VZW may be possible yet.

    http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=26059
    and this
    http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=27221
    and this
    http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=26691&page=3

    And wait a little more looking around turned this up, but needs the other URLs to get EVDO working:
    http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=22587


    last edit for the nite.... Its seems this is ultimately all due to Shadowmite AGAIN! HAHAHAHA.... Dude works hard...
    http://www.mobile-files.com/forum/sh...68&postcount=1
    Last edited by insol; 05/29/2008 at 12:30 AM.
  6. #6  
    I have Sprint....

    When I am out of reach of a sprint tower... I roam Verizon... So I get both anyhow... LOL

    I also get High Speed Digital while Roaming on my 700wx so dunno...

    Rodney
  7. haus's Avatar
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    #7  
    Insol,

    You're not totally out of the woods. I don't have time to read all those threads, but in at least one of them I saw "cloning" mentioned, and in the 4th one, step 34 is "Call service provider and do some sweet talking to get them to activate the phone on their network. You may need to do some serious sweet talking because Sprint ESNs are not in Verizon's database and vice versa. This goes for all CDMA carriers."

    Sounds like nothing new to me.

    Edit: cloning is not legal and sort of goes against the whole idea of using the open network policy; the latter I maintain is still just lip service to the community in much the same way the airlines "passengers' bill of rights" was devised to get congress off their backs. I freely admit I may be wrong, but I'll believe it when I see it, not when people on forums keep telling me it's coming.
  8. insol's Avatar
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       #8  
    Haus,

    I agree with everything you said... but I am hopeful. I have the XV6900 (touch) right now with a hacked ROM and I really miss my treo 700wx. I feel compelled to use the touch because I paid for it (smh).

    I think I need to better understand Sprint's coverage in my area (metro Wash D.C.) because I may just end up there due to the PDE issue alone (10 mins to lock onto satellites is just way to long). I just keep hearing bad things about Sprints network (poor coverage, huge txt msg delays, etc.)

    Also people keep talking about "roaming" on Verizon's towers.... what exactly does that mean? I am a heavy data user and don't want to bump up on limits simply because I am roaming.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    Haus,

    I agree with everything you said... but I am hopeful. I have the XV6900 (touch) right now with a hacked ROM and I really miss my treo 700wx. I feel compelled to use the touch because I paid for it (smh).

    I think I need to better understand Sprint's coverage in my area (metro Wash D.C.) because I may just end up there due to the PDE issue alone (10 mins to lock onto satellites is just way to long). I just keep hearing bad things about Sprints network (poor coverage, huge txt msg delays, etc.)

    Also people keep talking about "roaming" on Verizon's towers.... what exactly does that mean? I am a heavy data user and don't want to bump up on limits simply because I am roaming.
    If you are a Sprint user and are unable to "see" Sprints network (DC metrorail for an example) you seamlessly roam onto another CDMA carrier- most of the time it is Verizon. Which is why I never understood the whole mentaility of VZ network being superior??? Maybe it is, but it is available to Sprint users whenever they need it- at sprint rates...

    Sprint in DC is very solid, with blanket EVDO coverage almost everywhere. It can be tough on the metrorail though as Sprint operates at a higher frequency than Verizon which makes building (and ground) penetration more difficult. However, when underground no cell services is immune to poor service.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  10. insol's Avatar
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       #10  
    So if I understand you correctly Robber, Sprint has some implicit agreement with VZW to use their towers at no additional cost to Sprint's customers, obviously only for the 1900MHZ frequency spectrum? Seems amazing to me... but I will take your word for it. However, this seems to problematic too because Sprint can only use the 1900Mhz antennas on those towers.. so the number and benefit of VZW towers would be limited.

    I agree that the 1900Mhz frequency has some limitations compared to lower frequency bands and while I understand that this spectrum like most others does not work well underground (although I know for a fact that VZW has antennas in the underground D.C. metro tunnels) it is also a problem for penetrating brick and metal building materials. Many older buildings still have lead and steel framing, so this could be an issue pretty much anywhere, including potentially your residence. How is the coverage indoors around town?

    If the new 800w support 800Mhz (and I believe it does) -- I think VZW would seem to still be the better bet, if only because of the support for the lower frequencies when you need it.
    Last edited by insol; 05/30/2008 at 07:28 PM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    So if I understand you correctly Robber, Sprint has some implicit agreement with VZW to use their towers at no additional cost to Sprint's customers, obviously only for the 1900MHZ frequency spectrum? Seems amazing to me... but I will take your word for it. However, this seems to problematic too because Sprint can only use the 1900Mhz antennas on those towers.. so the number and benefit of VZW towers would be limited.

    I agree that the 1900Mhz frequency has some limitations compared to lower frequency bands and while I understand that this spectrum like most others does not work well underground (although I know for a fact that VZW has antennas in the underground D.C. metro tunnels) it is also a problem for penetrating brick and metal building materials. Many older buildings still have lead and steel framing, so this could be an issue pretty much anywhere, including potentially your residence. How is the coverage indoors around town?

    If the new 800w support 800Mhz (and I believe it does) -- I think VZW would seem to still be the better bet, if only because of the support for the lower frequencies when you need it.

    Negative. When Sprint users have a dual band phone (almost always) you can roam onto 800mhz networks including Verizon. The biggest issue you may have is actually getting the phone to switch over and roam versus just teeter-tottering at no service/ zero bars. Many phones can be forced into manual roam though.

    If you really are looking for more info shoot over to howardforums.com. I think you will be suprised at how good Sprints network is. EVDO is faster, rev A is available in DC I believe and when you need to roam on 800mhz you can.

    Sprints biggest fault is in it marketing, not its network.

    -Rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  12. insol's Avatar
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       #12  
    Robber,

    thanks for a good discussion. It is hard to get conclusive data for these issues... I am familiar with Howardforums and will go take a look at what they have on the matter. Your comments are certainly helping me make a decision about the new 800w when it comes out.

    I wonder how hard it would be to write an app to "help" the phone switch bands when necessary....
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    It is hard to get conclusive data for these issues
    That's probably because it's so dependant on the area.

    Best method is to grab a loaner/try-before-you-buy phone, and use the heck out of it all over your area. My grandparents did that for three days for all the carriers who would let them, and ignored the ones who wouldn't.

    (They ended up going with Sprint, incidentally, and they live in a log cabin in the middle of nowhere.)
  14. insol's Avatar
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       #14  
    Yah.... I really wanted to do that too, but even the phone can make a difference. And for me the 800w is "the ideal phone." Candybar with front facing qwerty, WM pro, GPS, 3G capability, > 240x240 screen, > 1200mwh battery.

    The issues associated with the 1900Mhz spectrum also have some advantages.... so it is unlikely that there will be any conclusive data that will apply generally. I will probably just go with Sprint because of the phone.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by insol View Post
    Yah.... I really wanted to do that too, but even the phone can make a difference. And for me the 800w is "the ideal phone." Candybar with front facing qwerty, WM pro, GPS, 3G capability, > 240x240 screen, > 1200mwh battery.

    The issues associated with the 1900Mhz spectrum also have some advantages.... so it is unlikely that there will be any conclusive data that will apply generally. I will probably just go with Sprint because of the phone.

    The 800w is actually 320x320-

    Writing an app to change radio frequency might not be too difficult. Try posting that question in the mortscript discussion area.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  16. insol's Avatar
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       #16  
    yah i was saying greater than ( > ) 240x240. The 800w is the perfect phone. I cannot wait for it to come out. The engadget story is showing the 800w in Q3 2008 and with their VZ nav (with the ultra secret PDE server). I may still switch to Sprint.

    You really think you can switch freqs using mortscript? I will be looking into THAT.
  17. #17  
    I use Sprint (w/ 700p) in the DC area and have no issues with the coverage. There are very few places I don't get a Sprint coonection but do get a VZ signal. About the only place I roam consistantly is underground on the subway. verizon is the only carrier with a signal in the tunnels, but that should change over the next 4 to 5 years.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  18. insol's Avatar
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       #18  
    Meyer do you use EVDO all around? I listen to streaming music in my car so it makes it very easy for me to get a real coverage survey around town.
  19. efudd's Avatar
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    #19  
    the networks are different.

    verizons in the former bell atlantic region for sure is superior.

    although you can sort of roam on vzw - you do NOT get the best of verizons network on sprint.

    I had sprint for many years- 5+. then in the past couple years switched to sprint.

    the verizon network is just better- they have both an 800 and 1900 network in the northeast. 1900 has its pluses but you can't beet 800 inside buildings or when there are obsticles between you and the tower.

    you don't can't just roam anywhere. the phones download the prl for a reason. the prl controls what towers you are allowed on. if the area is dead to sprint then you get verizon no prob. but it its just an iffy area then as dexribed above the sprint phone will bounce around with and without service even though there is a perfectly good tower from vz nearby. either sprint wants to control their roaming costs to vz or vz wants to keep some edge in coverage so certain towers are NOT permitted to roam.

    the sprint network I would describe as good enough. its fine. but vz's is just better.

    I had unlimited roaming when I had sprint and if I roamed 3 minutes a month it was a lot. this despite a couple of regular sprint deadspots that I know know vz just covers fine. another example is nyc subway stations. ny subways are NOT wired for anyones service. but because of vz's 800 band you frequrntly can get vz service several levels down just fine and a sprint phone will NOT roam there.

    is it a deal breaker? different strokes for different folks. is the extra little bit of coverage worth the massively more expensive bills on vz? maybe or maybe not depens on your wants needs.

    id ask friends and be prepared to try a new line and maybe go back if you don't like coverage. but you can't always easily just roam on vz. that's a fallacy.

    maybe forcing the phone to roam mode (if you even can) will work but that would require effort and it wouldn't "just work" like a vz phone will.

    also keep in mind that there are percent limits to roaming. so if you just leave the phone roaming on vzs network all the time you will get billed.
  20. #20  
    All this discussion about vzw being better inside buildings has not been my experience at all. I live in Manassas and work in Dulles and in that area Sprint is the clear winner indoors. I've had vzw and att phones in this area and neither of them had full coverage during my commute and neither had a good signal inside my house or inside my work buildings. With Sprint I have full signal at my house and very good signal at work and everywhere inbetween.

    The worst network in this area is att by a mile.
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