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  1.    #1  
    Thats what I want to know.

    No T-Mobile 3G = NOGO for me.
  2. #2  
    how about tmobile rolls out 3G to more markets first and actually has a good footprint of coverage first.
  3. #3  
    I doubt it will, unless T-mobile shows interest in carrying it. It wouldn't be worth the extra R&D costs for Palm to implement it.
  4. #4  
    I agree with both of you. T-Mobile's 3G is lacking as of now and the bands are so unique, it's a waste unless T-Mobile agrees to carry it.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    how about tmobile rolls out 3G to more markets first and actually has a good footprint of coverage first.
    Its the cart before the horse thing.... I've been a Tmo guy for years so I can't really say how ATT/Sprint/Vz did it with great clarity.

    I would think as phones are coming out that are GSM, why NOT add that band, it will only expand your audience down the road (a bunch of major major markets in the coming months).

    I think the "they dont have their 3G all the way out yet" isn't a good argument here. T-Mobile isn't swiss-cheesing 3G, they are trying to get most of the coverage map up with 3G almost all at the same time (well when you compare it to ATT's 3G rollout.

    If you have a crap load of phones out there that support the band, when it gets turned on, then BAM, you have customers ready to take advantage.

    If you have limited selection of phones out there, then no one is going to use it immediately.

    I see no harm in adding the USA AWS band.

    But I guess the consensus is that no, it wont have AWS. Which is a shame, as I'll be looking for a different phone to upgrade my Unlocked 750.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I agree with both of you. T-Mobile's 3G is lacking as of now and the bands are so unique, it's a waste unless T-Mobile agrees to carry it.
    Yes the band is unique NOW, but wasnt 1900 at one time? Eventually I invision quadband UMTS/HDPA radios on phones... why not start that trend now?

    AWS will be used elsewhere on the North American continent eventually, right?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I agree with both of you. T-Mobile's 3G is lacking as of now and the bands are so unique, it's a waste unless T-Mobile agrees to carry it.
    Exactly. What's the last Palm product T-Mobile carried anyways? No Centro, Treo 750, Treo 680...why would Palm want to spend the money on T-Mobile exclusive frequencies unless T-Mobile wanted to carry it? And the argument that T-Mobile users would buy it unlocked isn't a strong one as T-Mobile is a low cost carrier and therefore, the demographic t-mob user isn't going to spend 500-600 on an unlocked Treo 850 as it would be too cost-prohibitive.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
    Yes the band is unique NOW, but wasnt 1900 at one time? Eventually I invision quadband UMTS/HDPA radios on phones... why not start that trend now?

    AWS will be used elsewhere on the North American continent eventually, right?
    Simple - its too expensive to have a quadband HSDPA radio right now...
  9. #9  
    Just because T-Mobile has the best-priced plans, doesn't mean all its subscribers won't buy a high-end phone. I've had unlocked Treos on T-Mo for years! With all the minutes, internet access & messaging, my plans come to just over $100 per month. Many feel a loyalty to T-Mobile, and would like the option of buying unlocked phones if only the bands were on them.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew-NYC View Post
    Just because T-Mobile has the best-priced plans, doesn't mean all its subscribers won't buy a high-end phone. I've had unlocked Treos on T-Mo for years! With all the minutes, internet access & messaging, my plans come to just over $100 per month. Many feel a loyalty to T-Mobile, and would like the option of buying unlocked phones if only the bands were on them.
    You misunderstand (or I just didn't do a good job of communicating my point) - most of t-mobile users are very price sensitive. Not all - but I would say most. In some areas tmob is very strong, but across the country it is by far the worst service of the big 4. I've had all of the carriers and I travel for business and tmob had horrible service, not to mention the lack of 3G. 95% of my friends and people I know with T-mob have it because its so cheap. The demographic is VERY price sensitive.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
    Yes the band is unique NOW, but wasnt 1900 at one time? Eventually I invision quadband UMTS/HDPA radios on phones... why not start that trend now?

    AWS will be used elsewhere on the North American continent eventually, right?
    But US T-Mobile is also rolling out 3G too slowly for it to be worth putting out T-Mobile 3G band phones on a regular basis. What's their current time table for the spread across the US? I know they have the NYC area covered but what about the other areas?

    When their 3G is set be used in a significant number of urban areas, THEN the manufacturers should get more phones ready. NYC is not enough.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Exactly. What's the last Palm product T-Mobile carried anyways? No Centro, Treo 750, Treo 680...why would Palm want to spend the money on T-Mobile exclusive frequencies unless T-Mobile wanted to carry it? And the argument that T-Mobile users would buy it unlocked isn't a strong one as T-Mobile is a low cost carrier and therefore, the demographic t-mob user isn't going to spend 500-600 on an unlocked Treo 850 as it would be too cost-prohibitive.
    That I don't know about. I saw lots of people drop big bucks on the Nokia N95 and they're using it on T-Mobile as well as AT&T.

    The real problem IMO is T-Mobile's 3G band. It's incompatible with everyone else. You can take a phone with AT&T's 3G bands to use with Rogers in Canada if you have an unlocked phone. And likely some Mexican carriers and South American carriers if you travel south. Who else but T-Mobile uses 1700/2100 AWS as of now? It's just useless to produce a lot of AWS phones at this point IMO. And even if you did get an unlocked AWS phone, where could you use it but on US T-Mobile(unless it also supported AT&T's bands)? Mainly a waste of money at this time IMO.

    However, Palm could make a T-Mobile flavor if requested, I suppose.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13.    #13  
    Weren't all GSM bands "useless" at first when only one carrier used them when they were freshly approved by the FCC?

    Yes, Tmo USA is the first to use AWS, but it won't be the last. I'm fairly certain it'll be picked up by other carriers eventually. ...or for roaming purposes by other carriers onto Tmobile. They would still want to provide their customers 3G, even off Tmo's 3G backbone, right?

    I guess which is the better strategy?

    1) Build out 3G and have no phones to use it with, and only after your network is "up" (what would be that definition anyhow??), start to sell phones that'd take advantage of it?

    or

    2) Start selling a lot of 3G capable phones in parallel as you bring up your 3G network, and when the network is "done", then there's a built in population ready to use your new product immediately.

    I can see pros and cons to both, but personally I would think #2 is my choice.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
    Weren't all GSM bands "useless" at first when only one carrier used them when they were freshly approved by the FCC?

    Yes, Tmo USA is the first to use AWS, but it won't be the last. I'm fairly certain it'll be picked up by other carriers eventually. ...or for roaming purposes by other carriers onto Tmobile. They would still want to provide their customers 3G, even off Tmo's 3G backbone, right?

    I guess which is the better strategy?

    1) Build out 3G and have no phones to use it with, and only after your network is "up" (what would be that definition anyhow??), start to sell phones that'd take advantage of it?

    or

    2) Start selling a lot of 3G capable phones in parallel as you bring up your 3G network, and when the network is "done", then there's a built in population ready to use your new product immediately.

    I can see pros and cons to both, but personally I would think #2 is my choice.
    I think your argument is flawed because that was when cellular tech was fairly new. Now there are various options out there for manufacturers to focus on that have already proven that they have a solid future and will provide the company with a solid basis for revenue. Making a 3G device or T-Mobile right now is an investment that Palm doesn't really need to concern itself with. Focusing on the larger networks now (Sprint, AT&T, Voda overseas) that use the now-standard frequencies is a safer bet, and also a safer bet that will generate a lot of revenue that makes the R&D and other costs worth it. Right now, the testing and all that for a t-mobile specific version doesn't make sense because the network itself won't be ready for a while, and Palm will have to charge a premium for the radio itself since they aren't being sold in volume. Customers won't be able to realize the value in t-mob 3G for what, another year? What's the gain for Palm to release a product now when the future is unsure (particularly if T-Mob doesn't actually carry it)? Like I said, although SOME t-mob users buy unlocked devices, MOST will buy a cheaper, subsidized, t-mob branded phone.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I think your argument is flawed because that was when cellular tech was fairly new. Now there are various options out there for manufacturers to focus on that have already proven that they have a solid future and will provide the company with a solid basis for revenue.
    So 1900 came out as a GSM band first, then 850 in 2001.. Why did manufacturers decide to make 850 phones since 1900 was around? By your definition, no phone should have ever been made with the 850 band, because there already was a 1900 standard ("various options out there" to use your verbiage) But they did it. And I think they should here as well with AWS.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Making a 3G device or T-Mobile right now is an investment that Palm doesn't really need to concern itself with.
    Unless you work for PALM, I don't think any of us are able to comment on what Palm needs or doesnt need to focus on.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Focusing on the larger networks now (Sprint, AT&T, Voda overseas) that use the now-standard frequencies is a safer bet, and also a safer bet that will generate a lot of revenue that makes the R&D and other costs worth it.
    Short term, I agree with you on this. In the long run, they are passing up a large opportunity and customer base, in that of Tmobiles 3G customers.


    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Right now, the testing and all that for a t-mobile specific version doesn't make sense because the network itself won't be ready for a while,
    100% disagree. Testing can be done in NYC immediately, and in a few other markets within a few weeks. The fact that the network is UP anywhere negates your argument above.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    ...and Palm will have to charge a premium for the radio itself since they aren't being sold in volume.
    Please cite your pricing source here.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Customers won't be able to realize the value in t-mob 3G for what, another year?
    I will be able to relize 3G on Tmobile as soon as I get a handset that supports it, thank you very much. Now I know not everyone will, but you would have to quantify which customer's you are talking about. Population-wise, isn't the North-East the most densely populated? Based on that, you could conclude that the single largest concentration of Tmobile customers could take advantage of Tmobile 3G, had they a handset that would support it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    What's the gain for Palm to release a product now when the future is unsure (particularly if T-Mob doesn't actually carry it)?
    Please define "unsure" as I'm not sure what you mean here. T-Mobiles parent company is financially sound as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Like I said, although SOME t-mob users buy unlocked devices, MOST will buy a cheaper, subsidized, t-mob branded phone.
    Again, what are your sources for this comment? Perception of a value carrier may not be the same as the actual numbers.

    I could say the same thing about ANY carrier, and using a rule of numbers, I would say that since Verizon and AT&T are bigger, chances are THEY infact have more customers buying cheaper, subsidized handsets.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
    Weren't all GSM bands "useless" at first when only one carrier used them when they were freshly approved by the FCC?

    Yes, Tmo USA is the first to use AWS, but it won't be the last. I'm fairly certain it'll be picked up by other carriers eventually. ...or for roaming purposes by other carriers onto Tmobile. They would still want to provide their customers 3G, even off Tmo's 3G backbone, right?

    I guess which is the better strategy?

    1) Build out 3G and have no phones to use it with, and only after your network is "up" (what would be that definition anyhow??), start to sell phones that'd take advantage of it?
    or

    2) Start selling a lot of 3G capable phones in parallel as you bring up your 3G network, and when the network is "done", then there's a built in population ready to use your new product immediately.

    I can see pros and cons to both, but personally I would think #2 is my choice.

    The problem is, do the manufacturers know T-Mobile's timetable for 3G expansion? If not, it's a gamble to put out too many AWS phones right now. T-Mobile already missed two projected deadlines they gave us once two years ago, then one from last year.

    AT&T didn't put out too many 3G phones that were unusable at the time. They released a select few. They waited until they got a better network, NOW we have several to choose from.

    T-Mobile needs to show a steady 3G service increase, then manufacturers will probably start producing more.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I think your argument is flawed because that was when cellular tech was fairly new. Now there are various options out there for manufacturers to focus on that have already proven that they have a solid future and will provide the company with a solid basis for revenue. Making a 3G device or T-Mobile right now is an investment that Palm doesn't really need to concern itself with. Focusing on the larger networks now (Sprint, AT&T, Voda overseas) that use the now-standard frequencies is a safer bet, and also a safer bet that will generate a lot of revenue that makes the R&D and other costs worth it. Right now, the testing and all that for a t-mobile specific version doesn't make sense because the network itself won't be ready for a while, and Palm will have to charge a premium for the radio itself since they aren't being sold in volume. Customers won't be able to realize the value in t-mob 3G for what, another year? What's the gain for Palm to release a product now when the future is unsure (particularly if T-Mob doesn't actually carry it)? Like I said, although SOME t-mob users buy unlocked devices, MOST will buy a cheaper, subsidized, t-mob branded phone.
    I agree with most of what you've said.

    T-Mobile has already missed two promised deadlines, and is unbelievably slow. I'll believe T-Mobile will get 3G out across the country when I see it. NYC area is not enough and frankly due to the LONG wait, they should have debuted it in a few other major areas as well! It's almost June 2008 and only NYC area has T-Mobile 3G, what kind of progress is that really??? No wonder there are barely AWS phones, with that kind of snail's pace!!!

    Sorry Blacknoi, but I think he's right. Palm needs to go where they can make a profit NOW since they aren't at the top of their game anymore. Let Sony Ericsson push the Xperia 1 AWS version(they said there was going to be one) first and see how that goes. They can afford to wait and see if T-Mobile will get it together finally. Palm really can't right now, looking at how their profits and their stock price seems to be. Even their reputation is suffering. People are already bashing the 850 just due to Palm's perceived lack of innovation. It's just too much of a gamble for them to cater to T-Mobile right now, and HOPE people will buy enough AWS 850s, even when the network isn't cooked enough yet.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    The problem is, do the manufacturers know T-Mobile's timetable for 3G expansion? If not, it's a gamble to put out too many AWS phones right now. T-Mobile already missed two projected deadlines they gave us once two years ago, then one from last year.
    I agree with most of what you said, but WHERES the gamble?

    Tmobile is committed to the AWS band (they spent enough money for it). It will be rolled out. It is in process!! I just don't understand how its a gamble. Its not like AWS will go away. Its just the "fledgling" band right now.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the US Government's fault that the deadlines were missed? They didn't vacate the spectrum ontime? I didn't think it was T-Mobile's fault.
  19. #19  
    I did read that the government took it's sweet time, no surprise there. But maybe before they promised a roll-out twice, they should have waited until they were more sure. It looks like broken promises. And why only the NY area when they finally do roll it out? Do they realize how far behind they are? Couldn't they have released in several markets and informed customers that there may be glitches but they will work on it?

    The gamble is: how long before T-Mobile 3G is at least partially nationwide? They have been very slow. It is also a gamble as to whether or not you can sell enough phones for a network not truly ready. Of course that's true for any new phone. But due to this one feature unique to T-Mobile that's not even truly ready for primetime, I don't know if it's a good idea to release a lot of phones that only a handful of people can use, YET. Maybe by the time 2009 CES rolls around.

    It does seem that the manufacturers waited on AT&T's network also. There was actually a horrible selection of AT&T 3G phones for a while until AT&T finally got it's network almost fully running(at least in major urban areas), so maybe it's the same this time around too.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
    So 1900 came out as a GSM band first, then 850 in 2001.. Why did manufacturers decide to make 850 phones since 1900 was around? By your definition, no phone should have ever been made with the 850 band, because there already was a 1900 standard ("various options out there" to use your verbiage) But they did it. And I think they should here as well with AWS.



    Unless you work for PALM, I don't think any of us are able to comment on what Palm needs or doesnt need to focus on.



    Short term, I agree with you on this. In the long run, they are passing up a large opportunity and customer base, in that of Tmobiles 3G customers.




    100% disagree. Testing can be done in NYC immediately, and in a few other markets within a few weeks. The fact that the network is UP anywhere negates your argument above.



    Please cite your pricing source here.



    I will be able to relize 3G on Tmobile as soon as I get a handset that supports it, thank you very much. Now I know not everyone will, but you would have to quantify which customer's you are talking about. Population-wise, isn't the North-East the most densely populated? Based on that, you could conclude that the single largest concentration of Tmobile customers could take advantage of Tmobile 3G, had they a handset that would support it.



    Please define "unsure" as I'm not sure what you mean here. T-Mobiles parent company is financially sound as far as I know.



    Again, what are your sources for this comment? Perception of a value carrier may not be the same as the actual numbers.

    I could say the same thing about ANY carrier, and using a rule of numbers, I would say that since Verizon and AT&T are bigger, chances are THEY infact have more customers buying cheaper, subsidized handsets.
    Look, I'm not here to argue with you or pick fights. What's the last Palm product T-Mobile has carried? What motivation does Palm have to create a 1700mhz Treo 850 if T-Mobile won't carry it? And an unlocked device? Well that hasn't worked out for Palm in the past since they give exclusives to carriers for what, 3-6 month windows? This will hit voda first, and in the states, it'll hit AT&T. No unlocked models here until after the probable AT&T exclusivity period ends 6 months after release. By the way, NYC, although densely populated, isn't the center of the universe.
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