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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Palm's problem is that they have not been growing as fast as everyone else. They have lost market share due to basically not having enough product on the market both in terms of cycles and different versions. Combine that with other companies offering varying devices, price points and form factors (all a good thing) and the pie slice gets smaller, but only relatively, but everyone still gets "more" overall.
    Their year on year growth rate has dropped each year, and for the last two years was 28, then 21%.

    If you extend their current growth rate 2 years into the future it doesn't look too good.



    Surur
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Their year on year growth rate has dropped each year, and for the last two years was 28, then 21%.

    If you extend their current growth rate 2 years into the future it doesn't look too good.

    Surur
    Right, but no one is denying that Palm has a problem, which is why I said:
    Palm's problem is that they have not been growing as fast as everyone else. They have lost market share due to basically not having enough product on the market both in terms of cycles and different versions.
    I mean, what does your graph say that I didn't? Their rate of growth is declining, but sales are technically going up. Palm needs more high end products on the market, period. No mystery, no amazing insight.

    The Treo 800 WM line will hopefully start them on that road but it won't be realized with Garnet devices (Centro) and will have to wait till "Nova" hits the scene. Palm has said for that OS they will have many different devices/form factors available and not license out the OS. We'll see.

    Will it work? Who knows (who cares). I'll leave fortune telling to the fools who think markets are reliable as opposed to some large chaotic sham, offering the illusion of consistency and predictableness.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Right, but no one is denying that Palm has a problem, which is why I said:

    I mean, what does your graph say that I didn't? Their rate of growth is declining, but sales are technically going up. Palm needs more high end products on the market, period. No mystery, no amazing insight.

    The Treo 800 WM line will hopefully start them on that road but it won't be realized with Garnet devices (Centro) and will have to wait till "Nova" hits the scene. Palm has said for that OS they will have many different devices/form factors available and not license out the OS. We'll see.

    Will it work? Who knows (who cares). I'll leave fortune telling to the fools who think markets are reliable as opposed to some large chaotic sham, offering the illusion of consistency and predictableness.
    The analysis is all well and good, but what it really boils down to for me is one fundamental question: Do I feel an upgrade to the 800w is worthwhile?

    If anyone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said "yes" without hesitation, but given what is available from other vendors and Palm's slow ability to adapt to advancing technology, I'm just not that enthusiastic any more.

    I wish I could feel different about the situation.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insp_Gadget View Post
    If anyone had asked me that question a year ago, I would have said "yes" without hesitation, but given what is available from other vendors and Palm's slow ability to adapt to advancing technology, I'm just not that enthusiastic any more.
    Right and I'm no different. If there was something even close on Sprint like a high-end WM Treo, I'd give it a hard look. But there isn't and won't be so...

    Diamond is an $800 consumer/gimmick phone, albeit a very nice one. "Raphael" is only vapoware right now (even if it weren't, I'm not psyched about sliders too much).

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Their year on year growth rate has dropped each year, and for the last two years was 28, then 21%.

    If you extend their current growth rate 2 years into the future it doesn't look too good.



    Surur
    Linear thinking at its best
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    Linear thinking at its best
    Thats actually a polynomial regression line BTW.

    Surur
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Right and I'm no different. If there was something even close on Sprint like a high-end WM Treo, I'd give it a hard look. But there isn't and won't be so...
    I think that is the deal with many of us on Sprint... we are not happy, but then there are few other options.

    Not to mention, most of us (at least I am) are satisfied with the device we currently have. Or at least not dissatisfied to the point that we leave SERO and go to another carrier. Some might only have sprint available in their area....
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  8. #28  
    Ok maybe I am missing something here...

    The only thing I wish was on the treos would be a rectangular screeen instead of a square screen. But other then that the 800w does everything I would want for now...

    If it works and is functional I don't see the issue.
    If its the bling factor you want then go glue some gold on your teeth...

    My phone stays pretty much in my pocket except for when I am using it. If it works and doesn't annoy me when I am trying to use it then I am happy. I don't get whats sexy about a phone... Unless you have a different definition of phone sex then I do...

    Same thing with a computer... I would rather build my own and make the most powerful machine I could instead of buying a prebuilt Dell or something because it "looks sexy"... I know when I interface those ports I am using cables... And "sexy" never comes to mind...

    Problem with getting bleeding edge technology is nothing is made to work with it... Take computers for example... Go buy the fastest setup you can get today.. Spend say $3500 or more for a Tripple SLI motherboard, with liquid cooled dual quad processors, 2 gigabyte lan ports, 8 channel surround sound with seperate processor for just sound... Etc... 48inch main monitor with a couple 32 inch wide screen monitors to each side...

    Ok now what are you going to play on it? It has some pretty awesome specs... You could play some of the best games out there and they look and sound real but heck you could have had the same with a much lesser computer.. It will take 2-3 years for someone to really work this setup... And by then the same setup will be old technology and be available for $1200...

    I only bring this up because when I buy computers I try to buy last years technology.. Its cheaper, more durable and works well for whats available today...

    So I guess while you are fumbling with that new wizbang phone that doesn't quite work right, isn't supported well, doesn't support as much as you would like and isn't what you thought it would be... Ill be tooling along with my "old" treo doing all you can do and more... For a whole lot less and a whole lot more durable... (Ok, probably unfair comparing to the Iphone but heck... if the shoe fits...)

    Rodney
  9. #29  
    Oh yea, I forgot your most important reason to get a new phone... "Because it looks sexy"...


    Heck I don't get a phone for that.. My woman don't care what phone I have... She just cares that I call her...

    So I guess I need someone to explain to me why a phone needs to look sexy...
    Your going to put a cover on it, or stick it in your pocket anyhow so who cares?

    My daughters phone got run over by a car and is all scratched up.. Now thats ugly... Still works, sorta but its ugly... But luckily with insurance on it she will have a new phone no problem.

    Anyhow... How does a sexy phone win out over a functional one? I just don't get it...

    Its not like your going to drive it or wear it in plain sight...
  10. #30  
    The reason why it matters that Palm's new phones are sexy is because most people dont think like you. This results in poor sales by Palm, which results in poor cash flow by Palm and poor support by Palm of their customers (you).

    Basically if Palm goes bankrupt in 6 months, you may find your phone unsupported, with no ROM updates or upgrades to WM7. Even if they stay open, they may move their support from India to Haiti, to save money.

    Lastly the Treo 850 shows that being sexy and functional are not mutually exclusive.

    Surur
  11. #31  
    Eh, I just don't find phones to be "sexy." Well, the vibrating function is kinda nice, but that can only go so far.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by PDAholic View Post
    Eh, I just don't find phones to be "sexy." Well, the vibrating function is kinda nice, but that can only go so far.
    Again, while you may fit in perfectly on the board of Palm, that attitude is not the road to commercial success.

    Surur
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Again, while you may fit in perfectly on the board of Palm, that attitude is not the road to commercial success.

    Surur
    Surur, weren't you arguing kind of the opposite last year when the iPhone came out, talking about form vs. function e.g. how even though having more than 1 button is not aesthetically pleasing, it just plain works better? Or rather while the iPhone looked "sexy" it was sort of meaningless since it couldn't do half of what WM could?

    I guess it's sort of funny (and dubious) seeing you not only defend "sexy" but all of a sudden putting it forth as something necessary for WM smartphones, especially since it was only with the "Touch" series did HTC bother to spend more than 30 seconds considering visual appeal.
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Lastly the Treo 850 shows that being sexy and functional are not mutually exclusive.
    Seems as if this statement only applies since late 2007 and onwards.

    The 6700 was fugly, as is the Mogul, Tilt, Dash (TI calculator ftw!) Vox, the Lobster (!), etc. Yet I don't quite remember you pontificating on their looks too much, eh?

    Sure devices could "look better" but a lot of this is subjective.

    Lets face it: 90% of "sexy" is merely having flashy ad shots (perhaps like the Diamond endlessly pirouetting in that YouTube vid, lol) and simply being "glossy black"--that's it. I'm also not sure how any of this would figure into an IT departments decision making--especially since IT nerds are the last to know anything about "sexy". (It's also funny seeing how much HTC is emulating Apple in their ads and styling--that's another topic though)

    It's all about glossy black slab phones. Yet the reality is soft touch paint often works and feels much better, with no fingerprint marring.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 05/26/2008 at 02:37 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14. #34  
    I knew some-one would bring that up Sacrificing function for style is obviously anathema (to me at least) and for example I would not get a HTC Diamond for myself, since they dropped the removable storage to save 2 mm in thickness.

    However if you can have both style and function (and the 850 shows you can) why not get both?

    Either way, in the interest of Palm and its customers, they better get with good AND sexy phones.

    Surur
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I knew some-one would bring that up Sacrificing function for style is obviously anathema (to me at least) and for example I would not get a HTC Diamond for myself, since they dropped the removable storage to save 2 mm in thickness.

    However if you can have both style and function (and the 850 shows you can) why not get both?

    Either way, in the interest of Palm and its customers, they better get with good AND sexy phones.

    Surur
    Agreed.

    I still think the 800w will look better with they finish dressing it up a bit and put in black--not quite 850, but it'll be pretty good. Time will tell though.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Agreed.

    I still think the 800w will look better with they finish dressing it up a bit and put in black--not quite 850, but it'll be pretty good. Time will tell though.
    exactly, we have only seen pre-production models, final models due out within the next couple weeks, see centro pre-production models
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by nickf126 View Post
    I am a huge fan of palm. I have owned the Treo 600, 650, and 700w. I waited and waited for something new, until I had to jump ship for another device.

    In my heart I still held the hope that somehow Palm would pull a rabbit out of a hat and come up with some sort of new, sexy, innovative design for the 800 and win me back.

    So the leaked photos come out, and...eh. I am glad that I decided to jump ship.

    The icing on the cake here is the leaked photos of the 850 that just showed up. Why would Palm want to take a dump on the customers by designing a a new interesting phone, but then sticking the USA with the same old boring stuff?

    I concede that the specs on the 800 sound good, but they just do not go far enough to offset the bulkiness, and frankly, the ugliness of it.

    It breaks my heart, but Palm blew it. The only thing that can save them is that the 850 is really the 800.

    keyboard looks better on the 800W (just make it thin!) I think that Palm's days of innovative design are in the past unless they produce a real winner with the Palm Treo 900 "Nova".

    But Palm is going to have serious competition with:

    1. Android designs and operating system (what if the Android Linux runs Palm OS program complements of "Access")
    2. HTC winning touch and the Diamond are soon with us.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    I hear you, nick. I had the EXACT same response upon looking at the leaked pics, myself.

    Its just.....eh.

    I'm heading over to either the blackberry bold or the apple 3g iphone when the time comes for me to upgrade.

    The palm experience is old and tired and its just time now to move on. I'm eagerly looking forward to the change. Many former treo users are sorry they hadn't done so earlier.
    What I am reading here in the forums that Palm has done NOTHING this past year and what a shame! Shame on you Palm, you have failed your loyal users and continue to do so. Maybe the reason we have very few leaks from Palm is that they have very little to show us and to woo their falling customers back.
    Why not give us the Treo 800W thin like the Treo 850? The smiley keyboard is a winner.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    Why do people keep mentioning the Bold? It's not even in the same league as the 800w. It's a dumbed down smartphone for newbies. Limited OS, no touchscreen, no 3rd party programs, etc. Compare the Bold to the upcoming Instinct if you want a fair comparison.
    Th BB Bold has a keyboard and the Instinct does not! If the BB had more 3rd party programs sales would boom even higher. I think Landware will soon release a "Pocket Quicken" for BB
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    keyboard looks better on the 800W (just make it thin!) I think that Palm's days of innovative design are in the past unless they produce a real winner with the Palm Treo 900 "Nova".

    But Palm is going to have serious competition with:

    1. Android designs and operating system (what if the Android Linux runs Palm OS program complements of "Access")
    2. HTC winning touch and the Diamond are soon with us.
    If you think that the Touch and Diamond are any competition for the 800w, you'd better do a little research. Two very different demographics.
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