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  1.    #1  
    Hopefully we will see finalized pics of the 800 soon that make the new 850 pics easier to deal with but for now those are tough pills to swallow.

    Dissapointing to think that the 800 is going to have a slightly bigger brother that is much better looking - just as the the 700 did.

    Hopefully an 850w will make it to the CDMA carriers at some point.

    -Rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  2. TazUk's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'm wondering how much involvement the carriers have with the design, the 850's flush screen is very similar to the 500v's which was commissioned by Vodafone.
  3. nomad2000's Avatar
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    #3  
    850 is a replacer for 750v (vodafone, WCDMA/HSDPA)
    800w is a replacer for 700w(Sprint, CDMA2000 EVDO)
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  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad2000 View Post
    850 is a replacer for 750v (vodafone, WCDMA/HSDPA)
    800w is a replacer for 700w(Sprint, CDMA2000 EVDO)

    Right, and the 700 and 750 are the essentially the same hardware as is the 800 and 850.

    Why not just have your CDMA and GSM devices look equally as good?
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  5. hkklife's Avatar
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    #5  
    Why? Several possible reasons:

    1. $ related to R&D. CDMA users in the US are TRADITIONALLY used to larger, bulkier devices and are generally less concerned about looks and thinness. Thus, it would be cheaper from Palm--especially with the 800w being an in-house design--to stick to somewhat larger FF footprint with less condensed innards. Of course, Palm's engineers have gotten fairly good at shrinking PCBs down, as the Centro proves, so this may be a moot point.

    2. $ related to margins/carrier negotiations. Palm may try to slip the CDMA 800w in as a "cheap but feature-laden" entry--say, $200-$250 w/ contract, instead of the traditional $400-$500 pricetag w/ contract, and try to make up in volume what they lose in margins (ala Centro). Therefore, keeping the 800w's hardware specs as high as possible while keeping the build cost to Palm's OEM as low as possible would be the main goal.

    3. CDMA chipsets generally are slightly larger and more power hungry. Thus, the potential need for a larger battery. Look at the 755p vs. the 680 & 750 for a good example of this.

    4. The CDMA 800w may have a physically larger LCD (same resolution of course) or a physically larger keyboard with the "smile" shape when compared to the GSM version.

    5. Unlikely but still theoretically possible, the CDMA 800w have some compelling feature requiring more physical space (onboard flash memory? Retractable stylus? IR port? two microSD slots?) that the GSM version does not.
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  6. #6  
    I've somewhat held the Palm bashing to a minimum but I'm gonna agree with robber here. CDMA users have waited 2 plus years to get a follow up to the 700w/wx and all Palm can come up with is a slightly thinner 700w with a new color scheme.

    If this is indeed the Treo 850 for GSM, I'm gonna say that this has got to be the biggest bonehead move ever from Palm. Atleast with the 700wx & 750 there was some time in between devices so I can understand why the 750 looked a little better. As Mal pointed out in another thread, it's ridiculous to release these two devices around the same time yet they look nothing alike. I mean honestly if RIM can come out with devices on CDMA that look identical to their GSM versions, then why the hell can't Palm do it too?
  7. #7  
    I'm guessing it was probably a rhetorical question.

    Powerusers generally won't want a lesser device (in any respect) if there is a better counterpart in GSM land (for a similar phone), whether it makes sense for the manufacturer to do so or not.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by untouchablez View Post
    I've somewhat held the Palm bashing to a minimum but I'm gonna agree with robber here. CDMA users have waited 2 plus years to get a follow up to the 700w/wx and all Palm can come up with is a slightly thinner 700w with a new color scheme.

    If this is indeed the Treo 850 for GSM, I'm gonna say that this has got to be the biggest bonehead move ever from Palm. Atleast with the 700wx & 750 there was some time in between devices so I can understand why the 750 looked a little better. As Mal pointed out in another thread, it's ridiculous to release these two devices around the same time yet they look nothing alike. I mean honestly if RIM can come out with devices on CDMA that look identical to their GSM versions, then why the hell can't Palm do it too?

    I am a pretty big Palm supporter myself but this is kind of a kick in the balls for anyone that has used a WX for 2 years. At the same time there is a reason why I have used a WX for two years so it is catch 22.

    I want to stay with Palm
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  9. hkklife's Avatar
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    #9  
    If any of you are long-time Palm OS PDA users, you'll see this is nothing new.
    Historically, Palm has always made tiny, incremental upgrades and constantly reused or barely revised existing formfactors.

    In fact, Palm quite often subtracted several features when adding several more (the TX added wi-fi and 128mb RAM from the T5 but lost 100mhz of CPU speed, some battery capacity, and the internal flash storage etc). NONE of this should be a surprise.

    The Palm Pilot was the Pilot with a backlight, newer OS, & more RAM

    The Palm III was the Palm Pilot with a newer OS and slightly modernized body

    The Palm V/Vx was identical spec-wise to the III & IIIxe but in a sleek, metallic body (the Palm V, IMO, was a major industrial design milestone and should be celebrated immensely)

    The Palm m515 was the m505 but with more RAM, a brighter screen, and a slightly newer OS

    The T2 was the T|T but with 2x the RAM and a better quality LCD

    The Zire 22 was the Zire but with OS5, an ARM CPU, and 4x the RAM.

    The T|E2 was T|E but with a marginally better quality LCD, Bluetooth, and the Athena connector.

    Need I continue?

    That said, the 800w, regardless of formfactor, is the most feature-packed Palm device relative to the competition (IMO) since the T|T3 of 2003. I'll be the first to criticize Palm but I don't think the 800w is nearly as horrendous as everyone is claiming.

    Something else to keep in mind is that WE are no longer Palm's customers. It is the carriers to whom they are beholden and they will only produce what the (conservative CDMA) carriers will commit to purchasing in bulk. For example, I was seriously expecting Palm to come out with a 755w last summer alongside the 755p. It would've been perfect timing to replace the aging 700w/wx. A 755w could have had WM 6 Pro, a 320x320 LCD, and an antennaless formfactor and nicely bridged the gap between the 700w series and the 800w. I suppose that Palm either didn't want to spend the $ or the carriers didn't want to commit to an interim EVDO Rev.0 device, so Palm had no motivation to release a 755w.
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  10. cgk
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    #10  
    americans will buy ugly phones - us stylish europeans will not...

    <pouts and adjusts stylish hat>
  11. waldo15's Avatar
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    #11  
    I could not stop laughing this morning when I saw the newly minted 850. Just to think that 800w lovers were mentally preparing to accept the ugliness of the 800w they get a bomb like this... there's irony and comedy somewhere in there.

    What folks fail to realize is that the US is not the world. Europe and other geos are very important for Palm (perhaps even more than here?). Europe is big into driving GSM unlocked devices as well as acceptable ID form factors. It is rare (if not uncommon) to see a cellphone selling there that has a stubby antenna sticking out. Thus the 850 is tailored for a "discerning" market and Vodafone will make sure to market it well over there, just as much as the 750v was back then the first radical Treo who broke the old form-factor.

    Now, for those stuck in CDMA land, I read that other companies are making the exact same looking phones in both flavors... time to switch to a Blackberry bold? HTC? The possibilities are out there...

    Ode to 800w: Oh you deceiving Treo! You almost had me! But then I saw your sibling... love is short you know?
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  12. #12  
    I don't think that people have a hard time realizing that the US is not the world market of phones.

    But I could care less what is good for a developer as far as target market worldwide. I only care about CDMA phones that I can use.
  13. #13  
    Took a look at the 800 and the 850 today. I'm just not buying these phones anymore. This company is so old and tired I can't wait to start fresh with something new. When the time comes for an upgrade, its going to be either a blackberry or an iphone. Palm sucks hardcore and its just intolerable to wait years for truly boring devices.
  14. mikecc's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    Took a look at the 800 and the 850 today. I'm just not buying these phones anymore. This company is so old and tired I can't wait to start fresh with something new. When the time comes for an upgrade, its going to be either a blackberry or an iphone. Palm sucks hardcore and its just intolerable to wait years for truly boring devices.
    The 850 is worth a try just by looking at the picture. You never know what they will come out with later this year. Keep in mind that they hired someone from Apple to do the design. If you like the iphone/ipod, you may like their new phones too.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    Took a look at the 800 and the 850 today. I'm just not buying these phones anymore. This company is so old and tired I can't wait to start fresh with something new. When the time comes for an upgrade, its going to be either a blackberry or an iphone. Palm sucks hardcore and its just intolerable to wait years for truly boring devices.
    Palm is old and tired but I'd not trade my treo 700wx... I've thought about it and seriously thought about it. But after handling a htc, I decided against it. Having handling a blackberry, I decided against it.

    I'm not leaving sprint, so those were my options.

    I'm wondering why htc can't come out with a true "treo killer!" How hard would that be? My guess is that htc is "playing nice" since no wants to see palm die.

    Palm does suck... but they do make some great devices... very little major trouble out of my 700wx. I'll not be the first to own a 800w, but I'm hoping palm knocks it out the box.

    For the record, I'm not too concerned with looks... long as the damn thing is stable!!! My treo 700wx is not that pretty or thin, but it is stable for use as MY ONLY PHONE. It gets a lot of use, and it keeps a ticking. "Pretty" and stable would be nice, but "average looking" and stable is ok with me.... And palm, don't go thin if battery life is severely impacted! If I can't last at least a full day on one charge, what is the use of having a thin and pretty phone?
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  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Palm is old and tired but I'd not trade my treo 700wx... I've thought about it and seriously thought about it. But after handling a htc, I decided against it. Having handling a blackberry, I decided against it.

    I'm not leaving sprint, so those were my options.

    I'm wondering why htc can't come out with a true "treo killer!" How hard would that be? My guess is that htc is "playing nice" since no wants to see palm die.

    Palm does suck... but they do make some great devices... very little major trouble out of my 700wx. I'll not be the first to own a 800w, but I'm hoping palm knocks it out the box.

    For the record, I'm not too concerned with looks... long as the damn thing is stable!!! My treo 700wx is not that pretty or thin, but it is stable for use as MY ONLY PHONE. It gets a lot of use, and it keeps a ticking. "Pretty" and stable would be nice, but "average looking" and stable is ok with me.... And palm, don't go thin if battery life is severely impacted! If I can't last at least a full day on one charge, what is the use of having a thin and pretty phone?

    We are in the same exact boat, 700wx workhorses and not leaving sprint. I dont really care about looks that much either- I am just discouraged that the 800/850 are so close yet so far away.

    -Rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber View Post
    We are in the same exact boat, 700wx workhorses and not leaving sprint. I dont really care about looks that much either- I am just discouraged that the 800/850 are so close yet so far away.

    -Rob
    I understand... it is a complicated boat we are in....

    At the end I think we all get frustrated with palm and vent in many different ways.

    But I think we all LOVE palm in our own ways and in our own ways WANT palm to succeed. It may not sound like some people want palm to do well, but they do.

    Heck, sometimes I might go off against palm and sound like anti-palm.... It is frustrating to watch palm go down.

    Heck, most of us (like me) have had a palm device by our side for 10 years or more. Everyday... day in and day out. No way you are not connected to the name in some way.

    I love you palm. Get well.
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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber View Post
    I am a pretty big Palm supporter myself but this is kind of a kick in the balls for anyone that has used a WX for 2 years.
    Yeah thats one way to put it lol. It wouldn't have bothered too much if the 850 looked similar to the 800 but since we've now seen the 850, I know that Palm was capable of giving much more in terms of design for the 800 and that's what pisses me off.

    I mean let's face it, the 850 is what the 800 SHOULD have been from the start. I know I had high expectations for it and when the leaked shots came out from shadowmite, it confused me as to why it looked exactly like the mock up that jrinehart posted last year. You would think that after delaying it so much they would have changed up the design just a little bit. But after all of the recent leaks I think it's fair to say that Palm has pretty much screwed over the CDMA crowd with their rehashed & uninspired 800w design.
  19. jas o's Avatar
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    #19  
    I agree that the 800 should have looked like the 850. On that note though I know the first thing that I do when I get a new treo is put a rubberized case on it for protection. So it could be purple with yellow dots on it and it wouldn't matter. Let me tell you that my VX6800 is so attractive in its VZ blue. Purchase one was a case. This helped its looks but not what's inside it. It is a dog, but the BT works.

    What really matters is that it works! If we get a 700WX (working BT this time) with the latest specs I will be more than happy.
  20. cgk
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    #20  
    On that note though I know the first thing that I do when I get a new treo is put a rubberized case on it for protection. So it could be purple with yellow dots on it and it wouldn't matter.
    But that's not a factor in design decisions... "well one man might put it in a rubber case, so don't worry about the design of it..."
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