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  1. #121  
    BTW, here are two Samsung phones with rotating screens and fixed keypads.





    We all know there are no new ideas in the world, but Palm need to start implementing some of the better ideas out there.

    Surur
  2. #122  
    "This is a bizarre idea.

    One of the main reasons people use a Treo is one-handedness (especially the WM ones), which you just now threw out the window.

    Look at the 6800 and slide it out. Now look at the back of the screen. That is what you would be looking at when you slid and rotated the screen--imo, that'd be hideous looking.

    Why is enhancing "the media experience" relevant for an enterprise device again"

    - malatesta


    Oh please, mal. It would simply something new for palm, not bizarre, but different. You might not prefer it, but others might. Incidentally, some dont like the treo design either - Ive heard it described as bulky, a monstrosity, etc. Read my posts again. I stated palm could offer BOTH the treo form factor AANNDD this model I described to experiment with new ideas as RIMM is doing. And sweet lord for the love of god, we`re not throwing out the one-handedness of the treo at all. AS I HAVE SAID, palm would simply be introducing a new form factor for while keeping the old treo design for those hellbent on that one form factor . Okay? Have we got that clear now?

    You asked for examples of innovation so I offered one, and instantly you attack it. Here`s an interesting challenge. Id like to see YOU describe a very specific "innovative" new smartphone. Lets see how it would hold up to the hideous/bizarro tests.

    Why is enhancing the media experience relevant for an enterprise device? Oh now I see. So you`d rather have palm do as little as possible to improve media features in a high end device, right? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Apple and rimm should have no trouble in continuing to pound palm`s minimalist enterprise devices into submission with your approach.


    Where in the hell did I EVER insist that new form factors be called treos, Mal. Show where Ive stated this. I couldnt care LESS what they are called. Call them Quatros, who gives a ____! I dont care what palm calls their new designs, as long as they try new ones. So drop that argument and move on, yourself.

    Regarding innovation, the iphone is a much more esthetic looking device than the treo. The multi-touch screen is very interesting and unique among cell phones in the US. Dont try to tell me the iphone wasnt creative, original and attractive compared to many smartphones on the market at the time. It is innovative in its design in as much as it was the thinnest, sleekest cellphone at the time which offered safari web browsing ( no other phone offered safari ) and a large screen - all of which the treo does NOT offer. Of course you`re going to bark about how the iphone had NOTHING whatsoever which was innovative compared to typical cellphones and smartphones today, and that it is no different than an entry level nokia cellphone, right?



    Regarding GPS, are you saying then that palm is wasting their money on the gps feature since most people are focusing on "personal gps"? I guess by your argument here, palm is making a mistake by adding this feature. How is my argument waning? Tell me. Gps smartphones havent even penetrated the market long enough for anyone to know they wont be successful!! How can you insist that larger screens wouldnt be a benefit in helping them sell? Sure gps units integrate with cars well, but not everyone owns gps equipped vehicle. Maybe they want a smartphone with gps instead of just a standalone gps device. We dont know how it will shake out yet, therefore your argument here is not convincing.


    Regarding blazer, I am talking about the nova browser, as well as recently released treos. In previous treos, Palm could have significantly improved upon frankengarnet`s web browser to enable a faster, more usable mobile internet. It was and still is slow. Ok, they didnt update their os, but for god`s sake at least they could have overhauled the palm os browser. Is that asking too much here? Incidentally, my comments had nothing whatsoever to do with Windows treos, so you can let that go too.


    Regarding modifying the treo and new form factors, it appears you are the one who is confused here. I make the point very clearly in my other posts as well as this one. While palm continues offering the treo form factor it can ALSO offer new form factors. Period. I have never at any point in this entire thread insisted that new devices be called treos. I dont care what palm might name them. Quatro, novas, whatever, Mal. The point very simply here is that palm adds new designs to the productline. Why you make SUCH a big deal out of this is just ridiculous.


    What is innovative to you, Mal? How about an OLED screen or a fuel cell battery? Putting a keyboard somewhere else on a device is innovative to you, yet having a worldphone cdma device wouldnt be?
    Listen, for palm, this would be VERY innovative. Why? Because palm has never offered a phone with this feature before, therefore in palm`s case....(drum roll )... this would be innovative.

    It might not be the first phone to ever don this feature worldwide, but that is NOT the point here. The point is that it would be innovative by PALM`S standards, PERIOD.
    Last edited by logmein; 06/01/2008 at 02:24 AM.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    It would simply something new for palm, not bizarre, but different. You might not prefer it, but others might. Incidentally, some dont like the treo design either...
    And as I said...Palm should try new and different things, including your flippy-rotating gimick, just not on a Treo.

    That is the focus of discussion here in the 850w forum: is the Treo 850 "innovative" enough--not about what else Palm needs to try, hence why I keep referring back to that topic. It all goes back to treosensei's post.
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    Id like to see YOU describe a very specific "innovative" new smartphone. Lets see how it would hold up to the hideous/bizarro tests.
    Why? It's all subjective opinion, no? I'm not an engineer and I don't know what is technically feasible and what is not (neither do you)...i.e. is OLED actually able to do blue for the rated hours and be massed produced in large enough quantities (I've heard 'no' for both; do you know?)

    How many radios can fit inside a device and pass FCC tests? What are the restrictions (if any) that carriers put on manufactures for devices? Why are there not better battery solutions on the market? etc. etc..
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    Dont try to tell me the iphone wasnt creative, original and attractive compared to many smartphones on the market at the time. It is innovative in its design in as much as it was the thinnest, sleekest cellphone at the time which offered safari web browsing ( no other phone offered safari ) and a large screen - all of which the treo does NOT offer. Of course you`re going to bark about how the iphone had NOTHING whatsoever which was innovative compared to typical cellphones and smartphones today, and that it is no different than an entry level nokia cellphone, right?
    No, I actually do appreciate a lot of what the iPhone is and has done.

    You cited Surur's post that you said was "...spot on regarding innovation" and I told you Surur also says the iPhone is not innovative in any way (not that I necessarily agree with him).

    The question I asked you, since you agreed with him about the GPS button, was do you agree with him about the iPhone? Evidently "no", which is fine. Backs up my point about "innovation" being a subjective issue.

    So thank you.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    And as I said...Palm should try new and different things, including your flippy-rotating gimick, just not on a Treo.

    That is the focus of discussion here in the 850w forum: is the Treo 850 "innovative" enough--not about what else Palm needs to try, hence why I keep referring back to that topic. It all goes back to treosensei's post.

    Why? It's all subjective opinion, no? I'm not an engineer and I don't know what is technically feasible and what is not (neither do you)...i.e. is OLED actually able to do blue for the rated hours and be massed produced in large enough quantities (I've heard 'no' for both; do you know?)

    How many radios can fit inside a device and pass FCC tests? What are the restrictions (if any) that carriers put on manufactures for devices? Why are there not better battery solutions on the market? etc. etc..

    No, I actually do appreciate a lot of what the iPhone is and has done.

    You cited Surur's post that you said was "...spot on regarding innovation" and I told you Surur also says the iPhone is not innovative in any way (not that I necessarily agree with him).

    The question I asked you, since you agreed with him about the GPS button, was do you agree with him about the iPhone? Evidently "no", which is fine. Backs up my point about "innovation" being a subjective issue.

    So thank you.


    They could try your cheap, flippy accelerometer gimmick with some cheap tiny keyboard stuck somewhere else too, couldnt they? As I have said I dont know how many times now, PALM CAN KEEP THE TREO FORM FACTOR FOR THE DIEHARDS AS LONG AS THEY BEGIN TO OFFER NEW FORM FACTORS AS RIMM IS DOING. They can call the new models whatever they want, dear Christ, they dont have to be called treos. You seem to be really struggling to come to grips with getting that point clearly here, Mal. Its becoming amusing now! Let it go already. Drop it and move on.

    Its interesting that you wont offer up a design which you might term to be innovative, yet you`ll sit here and criticize other people`s ideas. I suspect it has something to do with knowing that it will be subjected to the same criticism which you dealt out. Am I getting warm?

    Dont try to claim everyone else is off topic but you. Get off it. You`ve taken part in the argument regarding innovation just the same. Its not as if you havent played a large part in drawing this discussion out too. Sure we`ve been talking about the 850 being innovative enough. It just so happens that along the way this was broadened into other models, about which YOU TOO entered into argument. So get off your soapbox.

    You`re presumptious. How do you know I dont know what is and what isnt technically feasible? You dont even know what I do yet you presume to tell me what I know and dont know so prematurely? I guess theoretically I could proceed in the same vain by assuming that you dont know your a$$ from a hole in the ground regarding what everyone can agree upon being an innovative device, then, fair enough? Back at you.

    If fuel cell batteries could be developed to the point of being better solutions for smartphone power sources, would you consider them to be innovative? If OLEDS could be developed/mass produced to achieve the "rated hours" for blues, would you consider them to be innovative?


    Surur`s opinion on whether or not the iphone is innovative has nothing to do with THIS THREAD. Who cares? That is irrelevant to this discussion. YOU are talking to ME about staying on topic? Pfft. We were discussing the treo form factor and that of newer form factors, NOT whether surur feels the iphone is innovative or not.

    Here is surur`s post again.

    [ "You keep talking about my GPS button idea, but innovation is not just about new technology, but using that technology in new and useful ways.

    When I said add a button for GPS, I saif this button should be tied to a software backend, so hitting it should for example report back the GPS location to back-office, so managers know where their sales team are. That would be innovative, and the kind of thing I expect Apple will do with the GPS in iPhone 2.

    There is plenty of innovation that can take place which can increase the utility and desirability of a Treo without losing the iconic form factor.

    Maybe we can have a thread were people can list interesting ideas (as Palm cleary are devoid of them." ]

    - surur

    Even surur is trying to get through to you that innovation is not just about new technology. You seem to be trying to divert attention towards getting me into an argument with him about the iphone, which backs up my point that you too, are going off topic. Thank you. This is about treos and palm devices right? Not surur`s opinion on the iphone. K?

    I am agreeing with the fact that there is plenty of innovation possible within the treo form factor. I am agreeing that tech can be used in newer and more useful ways, particularly in different form factors.


    So stay on topic, Mal. Try to remember that this thread topic isnt about whether or not surur feels the iphone is innovative.
    Last edited by logmein; 06/01/2008 at 12:26 PM.
  5. #125  
    lmao, logmein you care way too much about what I think about stuff. :-)

    moving on...

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    lmao, logmein you care way too much about what I think about stuff. :-)

    moving on...

    Not in the least. It`s simply a matter of setting the record straight. You are intent on interjecting your opinions around here so I am responding in kind. Interesting evasion, but indeed, by all means, do move on.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    BTW, here are two Samsung phones with rotating screens and fixed keypads.





    We all know there are no new ideas in the world, but Palm need to start implementing some of the better ideas out there.

    Surur
    More gimmicks? Stop trying to mess with the form factor, its a big WHY people buy Palm devices. Now as for trying other form factors, well that requires Palm to attain more production capacity it seems...
  8. #128  
    "More gimmicks? Stop trying to mess with the form factor, its a big WHY people buy Palm devices. Now as for trying other form factors, well that requires Palm to attain more production capacity it seem"




    Dude, listen. These are not gimmicks. They are simply different form factors. The treo form factor will not be changed. Put that to rest. It is simply a matter of offering other form factors in ADDITION to the treo. Period! Incredible, I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp here- its very simple!!

    For those who don't like new designs - don't buy them. Stick with your dearly beloved and eternally cherished treo form factor to the bitter end.. New concepts such as those surur illustrated are meant to offer something different for those who are ready to move on to something else or don't like the candybar style.. It may improve palm's penetration into the market.

    Palm barely has a pulse as it is compared to apple and rimm, so they desperately need SOMETHING else to jumpstart their business.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    "More gimmicks? Stop trying to mess with the form factor, its a big WHY people buy Palm devices. Now as for trying other form factors, well that requires Palm to attain more production capacity it seem"




    Dude, listen. These are not gimmicks. They are simply different form factors. The treo form factor will not be changed. Put that to rest. It is simply a matter of offering other form factors in ADDITION to the treo. Period! Incredible, I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp here- its very simple!!

    For those who don't like new designs - don't buy them. Stick with your dearly beloved and eternally cherished treo form factor to the bitter end.. New concepts such as those surur illustrated are meant to offer something different for those who are ready to move on to something else or don't like the candybar style.. It may improve palm's penetration into the market.

    Palm barely has a pulse as it is compared to apple and rimm, so they desperately need SOMETHING else to jumpstart their business.
    I recognize that you are all saying that Palm can continue on with their Treo form factor. My point with the gimmicks is that Palm should focus on products that add value to its core customers. A sliding, swiveling device like Surur's appeals to the wrong demographic in my opinion. However, a samsung i730 like slider wouldn't be bad. Given Palm's apparent lack of production capacity, I think that it needs to concentrate on solid designs and not gimmicks that try to answer the question of innovation.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I recognize that you are all saying that Palm can continue on with their Treo form factor. My point with the gimmicks is that Palm should focus on products that add value to its core customers. A sliding, swiveling device like Surur's appeals to the wrong demographic in my opinion. However, a samsung i730 like slider wouldn't be bad. Given Palm's apparent lack of production capacity, I think that it needs to concentrate on solid designs and not gimmicks that try to answer the question of innovation.
    The fact is, what palm is currently doing with its ONE form factor is just NOT an overwhelmingly huge success. That is just a fact. There is no getting around that. The centro is selling but palm is not making a huge profit from it due to margins.

    Therefore, they need to offer more choices to increase their presence in the market. YOU might consider different designs to be gimmicks, but others might approve of them, which could translate into higher sales, profits and added marketshare for palm. Thereby giving palm more capital to put out more advanced devices, treo and otherwise. The key word is choice. As with cars, one size does not fit all. Apply the same thinking to the smartphone business. The nova os will be a start, but you will need attractive devices running that os to catch the eyes of people with differing tastes. It`s a very straightforward concept.


    I think we`ve all been supporting the idea of putting the best possible components and features under the hood with treos (for the diehards), and doing the same with newer form factors. Very simple.

    The samsung i730 is certainly another form factor to consider.
    I disagree that a swivel is a gimmick. If it is done well, it could be successful. If the entire rotating surface is one large screen, as in the iphone, you would have a huge, high resolution screen just above a comfortable keyboard. This may not appeal to you or some here, but it may be an interesting possibility to others. It is time for palm to branch out a bit here. Rimm is even developing flip phones now, and you can clearly see how successful Rimm is. Palm needs to do the same.
    Last edited by logmein; 06/02/2008 at 01:56 PM.
  11. #131  
    Wow, I love the look! I'd get it for sure if this was Palm OS. I'll just keep on waiting with my 755P
  12. aph
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    #132  
    Damn, that blows my 800w away
  13. #133  
    No Wifi yet?
  14. #134  
    Still no WIFI.. sad!!
  15. #135  
    image 2 seems to indicate that it does have Wi-Fi (If it's real.)

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...46&postcount=1
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