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  1. #61  
    I have loved the Palms since I first got the Treo 600p a few years back, but I must admit, I am throughly underwhelmed.
  2. #62  
    Did some PS work to see it with some dark grey highlights against the black body, it looks better to me.

    For all the people who are surprised how the color change is so dramatic remember back to the early Centro pics: white=fugly, pink=cute.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No offense Surur, but you slammed the Centro pre-release too for all the same reasons you are saying about the 800w and I think your critiques are certainly premature.
    I was not the only one.

    Also I also don't consider "flush screens" or glossy paint "innovation" exactly, so I'm not sure what you mean
    I was thinking more of innovative features measures that differentiate the device from other devices with exactly the same base feature set, like the blackberry 9000 for example.

    HTC famously tries all kinds of boondoggles which never really work out very well, but at least make their devices more interesting. The Dash had the JOGGR, the Artemis had the RollR trackball and ring, the Tilt of course has the tilt. Samsung has its optical track-pad, the Toshiba devices have finger print readers etc etc.

    Software wise of course HTC has done touchflo and touchflo 3D. If Palm doesn't make their hardware interesting I hope they do something nice software wise.

    Surur
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I was not the only one.
    lol, doesn't make the analysis any better or worse...

    fact is, we should refrain from pre-judging the device till the final spec sheet and the publicity "glamor shots" come out--I would have thought the Centro situation would have taught us that...
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I was thinking more of innovative features measures that differentiate the device from other devices with exactly the same base feature set, like the blackberry 9000 for example.

    HTC famously tries all kinds of boondoggles which never really work out very well, but at least make their devices more interesting. The Dash had the JOGGR, the Artemis had the RollR trackball and ring, the Tilt of course has the tilt. Samsung has its optical track-pad, the Toshiba devices have finger print readers etc etc.

    Software wise of course HTC has done touchflo and touchflo 3D. If Palm doesn't make their hardware interesting I hope they do something nice software wise.

    Surur
    Palm does need to try new and wacky ideas...no argument.

    Just on a different line of devices, not the Treo line which has a long history, reputation and following.

    I guess I'm just tired of people trying to turn a messenger/business device into an iPhone, Diamond "insert new fad device here". Palm does need those devices but not while calling it a "Treo".

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  5. #65  
    Granted, you could do some fairly "different" changes to the Treo line without going the HTC Diamond/iPhone route (which basically only really means pure touch interface with focus on the screen).

    If there was a Mogul/Raphael type device that was called a Treo (but hopefully with a bit better keyboard than the Mogul and some design tweaking to make it easier to hold) I would be quite interested and would give it consideration. I can't speak for everyone though. For a quick example, if it had the Treo 755p keys on the slideout and a similar finish.

    What I like far less is how I keep seeing pictures of the 800w, 500, etc that look Centro-ish. The design is a step backwards imo, although some people probably like it
  6. #66  
    So this is what the long wait has been for, the Centro2? Did Palm finally renegotiate their contract with the silk screener and now can put Treo on the Centro cases? Is that what really happened? Where is the innovation? The Palm sink hole just got bigger and deeper. Back to square one.

    Hey Palm, what about that ex-apple designer super hero you guys picked up? Doesn't he get any input on how the future designs will look? Or was that hot air to buy you time to work on the Foleo?
  7. #67  
    In my view, whether its a photoshop black or blue, this treo is still just...... eh.

    Same ole ****. Wifi and gps which are nice, but not really a great deal to sing about in the sleepy world of palm.

    The usual.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I was not the only one.



    I was thinking more of innovative features measures that differentiate the device from other devices with exactly the same base feature set, like the blackberry 9000 for example.

    HTC famously tries all kinds of boondoggles which never really work out very well, but at least make their devices more interesting. The Dash had the JOGGR, the Artemis had the RollR trackball and ring, the Tilt of course has the tilt. Samsung has its optical track-pad, the Toshiba devices have finger print readers etc etc.

    Software wise of course HTC has done touchflo and touchflo 3D. If Palm doesn't make their hardware interesting I hope they do something nice software wise.

    Surur
    The JOGGR is annoying, the Tilt is a gimmick (but surprisingly useful at times), and the Treo form factor is PERFECT IMO from an efficiency AND effectiveness standpoint. Flush screen, larger battery, more programmable hardkeys are all things that I think would make it a better device, but not necessary. Also, soft touch paint ALL the way - I'd rather have a device that is easy to hold and feels secure in hand rather than a fingerprint magnet glossy finish that also gets as slippery as a bar of soap whenever it comes into contact with human skin.

    What other innovation do you guys want from Palm? How many WM6 Pro devices are there in the QWERTYbar format right now that aren't so full of bugs that you end up returning it? In terms of form factor, Palm got it right with the Treo 600 so why bother changing it? Sure, it would be good for Palm to have other options, but KEEP this design as the main model. I've owned a variety of devices and I'll go through the Pros/Cons of each different form factor now:

    QWERTYbar - Overall efficiency and effectiveness winner.
    Pros: Like I said, the best form factor for me. Always there keyboard is convenient not only for text entry, but for shortcuts, quick dialing/searching of contacts, and being better at navigating (go to programs and press "S" to get to the programs that start with an S). Even something like Google Search from the Today screen is RIDICULOUSLY easy and FAST. My Blackjack II is also great at this BECAUSE of the form factor. This form factor should allow for smaller designs as well.
    Cons: Smaller screen, not much of a "wow" factor, smaller keyboard (although, this isn't usually a problem as most people adjust to keyboards by touch)

    Keyboard Sliders (AKA Tilt, Mogul) - best for "all-around" but inefficient.
    Pros: Definite wow factor at first; large, spacious keyboard; bigger screen sizes possible.
    Cons: Overall size and weight, MAJOR inefficiency when entering data (from the time it takes to slide orientation, to switch screen orientation, to finally entering data - at times it would take my hacked Tilt/8525 4-5 seconds to become responsive to text entry!); slower contact searches/dialing; inefficient Google Search from Today (fairly big deal to me); more moving parts that can break.

    Touch devices - i.e. iPhone, HTC Touch - best for multimedia
    Pros: Size, cool factor, larger screen, less weight, flush screens.
    Cons: no tactile feedback on keyboard, no keyboard shortcuts (Press start and try to easily press "C" to launch the Calendar), smaller screens = smaller onscreen keyboards or having to resort to SureType/T9esque keyboards, both of which lead to inaccurate typing.

    To me, the above summarizes the main form factors we're seeing in the WM world today. As a business and "prosumer" user, I think the QWERTYbar is the epitome of efficiency and effectiveness.

    So what are your thoughts? Why does Palm need to mess with a winning formula? Adding features like 3G (done), wifi (not important to me but important in a high end smartphone nonetheless), GPS (more important now than ever to carriers for revenue as well as those of us that travel frequently for work or for personal), more RAM/ROM, and a competent processor, which is something Palm has seemed to have remedied. What more is there? Mobile TV? Hey, throw that in too on the GSM model.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    In my view, whether its a photoshop black or blue, this treo is still just...... eh.

    Same ole ****. Wifi and gps which are nice, but not really a great deal to sing about in the sleepy world of palm.

    The usual.
    So what else are you looking for? A toy with new "features" that don't really work right but make it a "cooler" device?
  10.    #70  
    I think most of Palm's devices, even business-focused, are still bought by consumers out of pocket. With that in mind, there are basics which Palm has omitted, such as a 3.5 mm headphone jack.

    In addition, nice features like a side scroll wheel has also not made it to the Palm platform recently.

    I cant think of anything truly innovative that would still make it a business device, but taking the best of what everyone else has done, and doing it well, is also innovation of a kind (look at the iPhone for example).

    In that vein, and keeping it business-focused, a belt holster designed for the phone would have been cool, and even better if it clipped into a small dashboard mount or vent mount (magnetically even). The device does have GPS after all.

    How about a large "locate me" button on the top of the device (say upper right corner) which would activate the GPS, and be configurable to either send out your location to a central server (run by Palm as a free service), launch your GPS apps or launch google maps so you can search it?

    How about having the ringer switch double as a speaker phone switch, so all incoming calls are automatically on speaker phone (e.g. for car usage)? We are selling this device primarily to the travelling salesman after all.

    Anyway, just brainstorming a bit, but I bet the people who get paid for this can come up with many real, useful and realistic ideas which could have made the 800w even more desirable.

    Surur
  11. airibis's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    In my view, whether its a photoshop black or blue, this treo is still just...... eh.

    Same ole ****. Wifi and gps which are nice, but not really a great deal to sing about in the sleepy world of palm.

    The usual.
    Agree

    I am starting to like the new "flashier" phones sprint is putting out. Little details, like the Ipod touch wheel of the diamond (and how it lights up in a circle when you have a notification)

    just the small things like that.

    plus I like an "artsy' UI.. sprint never really put much into that department
  12. #72  
    In addition, nice features like a side scroll wheel has also not made it to the Palm platform recently.
    I dont want any of these other "workarounds". The Palm WM interface is AWESOME, imho. I dont need touch pads and scroll wheels. I can do almost everything with my ONE thumb on a Palm device. Thats why we are on this forum, right?

    I just switched to AT&T and have a new (to me, but old to the industry) WM6 Unlocked 750. The best device I have ever had.

    I need 750 functionality, in a device that I can use my hundreds of dollars worth of WM third party apps, with more speed, more memory, GPS, WIFI and a modern "BB Bold look".

    I just want to use my thumb (on a D-pad), quickly, during my busy day. I dont have time for Mogul or BB-like interfaces.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Anyway, just brainstorming a bit, but I bet the people who get paid for this can come up with many real, useful and realistic ideas which could have made the 800w even more desirable.

    Surur
    lol, we haven't even seen the device turned on yet.

    I think, if accurate, that 100mb of free RAM (~25mb more than average 128mb HTC devices) hints at some serious tweaking.

    The dedicated WiFi button is nice (as well as ones for email and calendar). Plus that ringer switch that HTC won't put on.

    Who knows what the OS looks like though and if they did any other "innovation"--like I said, lets at least see the
    1. final Version
    2. device turned on

    ...before deciding.

    btw, when did the "black slab" (Instinct, Diamond, iPhone, Voyager, p560, xenium, bb thunder, shine, glyde, prada, iPerformer, LG Vue, Paris, e66 etc.) become "innovation" in the (pseduo) smartphone market? Because that's all I'm seeing now...

    Thankfully we have such creative people at these companies.

    Last edited by Malatesta; 05/17/2008 at 01:16 AM.

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  14. mlbizzle's Avatar
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    #74  
    Well put Malatesta.. I have a feeling when this device is actually released and is slightly (probably not significatly) different than this prototype we see but we can actually hold it and see the operating system tweaks and Palm touches (that they are great at and have improved on from the 700wx to the 750 and now the 800...) everyone will sing a different tune...

    This device is going to look sharp with windows mobile in 320 x 320 next to all of the 320 x 240 slider phones out there too...
  15.    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    btw, when did the "black slab" (Instinct, Diamond, iPhone, Voyager, p560, xenium, bb thunder, shine, glyde, prada, iPerformer, LG Vue, Paris, e66 etc.) become "innovation" in the (pseduo) smartphone market? Because that's all I'm seeing now...

    Thankfully we have such creative people at these companies.

    Black slabs are clearly the future. 2010 here we come

    BTW, I am not saying its a bad device, just that its not very interesting. I am sure with the specs Palm gave it (with which I cant find anything wrong, unlike the diamond with its absence of a card slot for example) the device will work really well, be really snappy, and have good battery life.

    As usual, we criticise because we care. We want Palm to do even better, because we know its possible, instead of doing the minimum all the time.

    Surur
  16. #76  
    same ol' design, very little innovation, but hey, that hardly comes as a surprise. color it what you want.

    as it currently stands, no thanks.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    same ol' design, very little innovation, but hey, that hardly comes as a surprise. color it what you want.

    as it currently stands, no thanks.
    Treos have been about usability, efficiency and speed and they do these three things better than any other device. That is why we are all here, nt because we are looking for rounded edges and metallic paint.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Black slabs are clearly the future. 2010 here we come

    Surur
    lmao, nice...

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  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber View Post
    Treos have been about usability, efficiency and speed and they do these three things better than any other device. .
    i might give you one of the three....
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  20. mlbizzle's Avatar
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    #80  
    I really wanna see a picture of the back of the device... I hope it doesn't look like the centro... I'm not a big fan
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