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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    But the Treo 800w is more business/enterprise so I think comparing it to those other three is a bit odd. Much like comparing the BB 9000 to an iPhone--they're just different devices.
    well if palm is conceding the consumer space to apple and whoever, and Rimm has enterprise on lock down what's left. the two spaces are somewhat converging but the fringe users on business go for rimm, those for a media device go to apple if they can swtich carriers. their best bet is consumer since apple is only on one carrier in the us, but the specs on the device don't get them there which is the ops point. (and i concur).
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    ...and Rimm has enterprise on lock down what's left.
    Well, MS sees RIM as the real target for Windows Mobile 6 and Palm sees their Treo as a competitor to RIM.

    Will it succeed? Dunno. But MS has invested a ton into the whole seamless Exchange/device management with 6.1 and so they are serious at going against RIM--and if one type of device could do it, a Treo would be it.

    If they can beat the 9000 on price (both back-end and device), that'd also matter to IT departments.

    Also, Palm is doing an okay job of keeping their toe in the consumer market with the Centro--that low-end is still important for growing the whole smartphone industry as not everyone wants a $400 phone.

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  3. cgk
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    well if palm is conceding the consumer space to apple and whoever, and Rimm has enterprise on lock down what's left. the two spaces are somewhat converging but the fringe users on business go for rimm, those for a media device go to apple if they can swtich carriers. their best bet is consumer since apple is only on one carrier in the us, but the specs on the device don't get them there which is the ops point. (and i concur).
    and lo...

    UBS analyst Maynard Um today cut his rating on Palm (PALM) to Sell from Neutral, with an unchanged $5 price target. Um says the company is on track for some new Treo products in the August and November quarters, but that Palm faces an increasingly competitive landscape, with the pending arrival of the 3G Apple (AAPL) iPhone and the expected July launch of the 3G Blackberry Bold by Research In Motion (RIMM).

    A Palm turnaround still relies on the success or failure of its new Linux product, he says, which won’t be launched before the first half of 2009 “at the earliest.”


    PALM today is down 18 cents, or 3%, at $5.76.
  4. #24  
    yep. the 800 looks way too far behind. the new os next year is like craziness. but not a surprise for those of us watching the ceo of palm for a while. I think palm's best bet is to get bought by huaweii. it's a good way to enter the market for them and they don't really care that its not really a performing asset.

    sprint's kinda in the same spot and its getting killed by no cool phones and bad customer service. it's best bet is getting bought by tmobile then switching to lte. my opinion.
  5. cgk
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    #25  
    I totally lost with palm W devices - what's the killer reason for existing users to upgrade from their current palm device to this?
  6. #26  
    Ah.. the issues about CDMA and GSM. Like what someone said, the i788 will take care of the GSM us band. CDMA in my opinion is very inflexible and locks you to the telco and phone. With GSM, I can just swap out my SIM card and put it into another GSM phone. Most of the world out there is GSM so you can't blame them for getting GSM first. You tell me, how many NEW GSM models you see when compared to CDMA?
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    yep. the 800 looks way too far behind.
    But behind what? The BB 9000? They seem about neck and neck, except for the slightly larger screen and 1gb internal memory (will that translate into higher cost too?)

    I think for a business messenger device it's right on target. But I'm curious: what else should be put in there? I threw out hybrid-GSM and ambient light sensor...but what else does a business device need?

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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ddeath View Post
    Ah.. the issues about CDMA and GSM. Like what someone said, the i788 will take care of the GSM us band. CDMA in my opinion is very inflexible and locks you to the telco and phone. With GSM, I can just swap out my SIM card and put it into another GSM phone. Most of the world out there is GSM so you can't blame them for getting GSM first. You tell me, how many NEW GSM models you see when compared to CDMA?
    It's all trade offs though.

    I pay < $30 a month for unlimited 3g, text messaging, 500 minutes and unlimited N&Ws.

    I've also had 3g now for nearly 3 years (ppc-6700 in '05 baby). GSM is only now catching up to CDMA and at higher costs.

    It's not one is better, it's just trade-offs. Here in the States people don't swap SIM cards like in Euroland, so it's not really a big deal (plus I can swap CDMA devices fairly easily now).

    I'm also not sure that converting a GSM to CDMA is really a huge deal--it's just some companies don't do well with our strong-armed carriers (cough, Nokia).

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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    But behind what? The BB 9000? They seem about neck and neck, except for the slightly larger screen and 1gb internal memory (will that translate into higher cost too?)

    I think for a business messenger device it's right on target. But I'm curious: what else should be put in there? I threw out hybrid-GSM and ambient light sensor...but what else does a business device need?
    i think you are trying to say Treo is only targeting Business/enterprise but I dont think thats 100% right. I still think of it as a general purpose device for consumers and business.
    If you are a business you are gonna go Rimm
    if you are a consumer you are gonna go iphone if you can, and if you can't then HTC diamond or Raphael is the way to go spec wise.
    Wherever the go they are behind unless there are secret specs we dont know about.

    oh and btw I think business and consumer is melting as a category. just like the pc.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Yup, MSM-7500 is dual, though not that good. Actually, it's the ARM 11 processor (vs the other one, ARM 9) that is not very good.
    Perhaps I am now a HTC fanboy (I used to be a Treo WM fanboy), but that is not a fair statement. The 6800 suffers from lack of memory (and early bugs in rom) not due to a slow processor. The 6900 is a sweet multitasking device with its additional memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    It's all trade offs though.

    I pay < $30 a month for unlimited 3g, text messaging, 500 minutes and unlimited N&Ws.

    I've also had 3g now for nearly 3 years (ppc-6700 in '05 baby). GSM is only now catching up to CDMA and at higher costs.
    Actually GSM/hsdpa has surpassed evdo-A with current speeds up to 3.8 MBps and I read where AT&T will be increasing the download rates to 7.6 Mbps by the end of the year and 20 Mbps by the end of 2009. Granted it is nice to be able to go practically anywhere and be able to get evdo

    BTW I think there is a decent niche for the 800w, and it will probably be business users. I see alot of people at my company carrying around moguls and MotoQs. The only problem is that they dont know how to use them properly I think the 800w will get plenty of that market. I am just disappointed as a consumer that I have had to wait this long for a 700wx replacement, and ive moved on to the touch, and adapted and seriously doubt the 800w is in my future or that of many other consumers, although wh knows when I see one in person (yea i know nice runon sentence)
    Last edited by volwrath; 05/15/2008 at 09:09 PM.
  11. #31  
    every questions and other comparable specs will be answered once theses devices will be released, tried and tested by the experts and reviewers.
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    It's not one is better, it's just trade-offs. Here in the States people don't swap SIM cards like in Euroland, so it's not really a big deal (plus I can swap CDMA devices fairly easily now).
    CDMA is great if you never leave the States I guess.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    CDMA is great if you never leave the States I guess.
    Which an extremely large chunk of the world never does.

    In some areas CDMA based providers works far better than GSM based. Where I live I get great reception (nearly) everywhere I go with Sprint. With AT&T (Cingular, whatever), the reception is horrible in many places, or you have these random dead spots.

    Just because GSM may be superior where you live doesn't mean that it is where I live. And this isn't a Sprint fanboy perspective either, most of VP's/Directors at the company I work (using corporate blackberries) for have switched to Verizon from AT&T due to reception issues. Verizon is now considered the default unless you specifically request something different.

    I hate it when people make CDMA vs GSM another HDDVD vs Blu-ray (or VHS vs Betamax) type battle. Each one has strengths and weaknesses, and if both exist then it simply creates a higher level of compitition, which is good for consumers of both CDMA and GSM. Look what happened to VHS (and more recently Blu-ray). Once the competition was gone, prices skyrocketed, sales dropped, and you have a whole bunch of pissed off people who refuse to buy your product because they "lost" the standards battle (and now have an obsolete product that's worthless).

    Competition is a good thing, and maybe you folks overseas could use some more of it.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    Competition is a good thing, and maybe you folks overseas could use some more of it.
    We have it - between networks - between standards just sounds daft. This means that if someone releases a phone on one network and not on yours, you can get it unlocked on ebay and if you are pay as you go and the like, you can swop and change with no hassle.

    Hell even contract, you can swop network, keep your old phone if you like it and flog the new one they give you - making the monthly rental effectively zero
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    CDMA is great if you never leave the States I guess.
    well lots of markets in Asia actually use it. Korea, China --south asia etc.
    I agree though. I almost wish we had not done it in the states...altho for a time it looked like CDMA might win the ballgame.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebag333 View Post
    Which an extremely large chunk of the world never does.

    In some areas CDMA based providers works far better than GSM based. Where I live I get great reception (nearly) everywhere I go with Sprint. With AT&T (Cingular, whatever), the reception is horrible in many places, or you have these random dead spots.

    Just because GSM may be superior where you live doesn't mean that it is where I live. And this isn't a Sprint fanboy perspective either, most of VP's/Directors at the company I work (using corporate blackberries) for have switched to Verizon from AT&T due to reception issues. Verizon is now considered the default unless you specifically request something different.

    I hate it when people make CDMA vs GSM another HDDVD vs Blu-ray (or VHS vs Betamax) type battle. Each one has strengths and weaknesses, and if both exist then it simply creates a higher level of compitition, which is good for consumers of both CDMA and GSM. Look what happened to VHS (and more recently Blu-ray). Once the competition was gone, prices skyrocketed, sales dropped, and you have a whole bunch of pissed off people who refuse to buy your product because they "lost" the standards battle (and now have an obsolete product that's worthless).

    Competition is a good thing, and maybe you folks overseas could use some more of it.
    it sort of has created competition. I am sure nokia and ercisson would have charges carrier networks a lot more if cdma had not existied as an alternativive. not sure it was worth it though to be honest. the tech progress in gsm and cdma has not been that good despite intense competition.
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    #37  
    well if palm is conceding the consumer space to apple and whoever, and Rimm has enterprise on lock down what's left. the two spaces are somewhat converging but the fringe users on business go for rimm, those for a media device go to apple if they can swtich carriers.
    I dont think anyone is conceding the consumer space or Enterprise space. And the Treo 800 fits squarely into both. WM has a significant piece of the Enterprise that they plan on expanding OS and Server wise and it is a market
    that will keep expanding. The Treo is very important to that. So when RIM's solutions have a few more outages, and Enterprise software solutions are needed to be created more and more, well is BB where its at?

    And in the Consumer Market... A lot of people want this Form Factor!!! A lot of People wont pay $400 plus subsidized for a phone. A lot of people want a step up from their current WM Standard Qs, BJ, Dash.... A lot of people have Treo's and have been waiting for this rather huge upgrade. And at least in the North American Market a lot of people are on CDMA. And the consumer smartphone market is going to grow at a huge rate and Palm and Treo has brand recognition which is big!

    So saying this is behind(which I agree with Malatesta its not) and using the spec war answers are rather incorrect and usually depend on "what is coming from someone else" just doesnt really matter to the actual business making the decisions. And yes, Palm decided to wait and release this when it was really ready... They are a little slow on the trigger, but that isnt all bad....

    This is going to be very important to a lot of new and existing businesses and consumers on a lot of carriers. I dont see anything missing that matters anymore.
  18. cgk
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdsoft View Post

    And in the Consumer Market... A lot of people want this Form Factor!!! A lot of People wont pay $400 plus subsidized for a phone.

    But isn't that the price range this "high-end" phone is going to in?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But isn't that the price range this "high-end" phone is going to in?
    The 700w/wx/p (and now the 800) has always been targetted at high end consumer and business users. It's considered the "flagship" of the Palm devices for a reason.

    Take the 7xx style design, make it a smartphone (no touchscreen), put a few tweaks on there, throw an OS on it that doesn't cost you much (if anything)...and you have a smartphone in the sub $100 market. Which is exactly where the Centro fits in.

    I believe this is what Birdsoft was driving at, that the form factor is a big part in what convinces people to purchase (or not) a phone. The BB Pearl has been very popular because of the same price ($99), but a lot of people complain about the split keyboard.

    It wouldn't suprise me to see Palm continue to come out with a range of devices in the 7xx form factor, but toned down to meet lower prices. I'd really like to see them come out with a 7xx form factor with WM in the $100 price range, but I doubt they can license WM that cheaply. With the 700's Sprint and Verizon are giving steep discounts to get them out the door at $199.
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    #40  
    Subsidized after the initial release most Treos get down around $200-300 range for the majority of their shelf life, which is a lot easier to swallow for the vast majority of even high end users and businesses than the $400-500 of phones like the iPhone(which will probably increase with the release of iPhone2). So yeah, in the phone market being able to hit price points is a monster factor... If it is competing with Blackberry Im sure they wont price themselves out of that market...I hope...
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