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  1. #221  
    Quick thing, Ebag, I was trying to edit the registry of the ROM you linked to, but for some reason it doesn't work because it is in a module. I also tried to extract it with CeRegistryEditor, but it "failed within a few lines of line1". Any advice? Thanks.
  2. kwyatt's Avatar
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    #222  
    Hi ebag, question about your final rom. Is there any way to re-enable the default sip keyboard. when i click on it nothing happens. Thanks
  3. #223  
    The ROM is copied to RAM? So the idea is if you strip the ROM you will have more RAM available because there is less ROM to copy to the RAM? As well as faster speed due to less files to go through in RAM ?
    No - the rom is permanent memory - files in rom may use ram when running, but just being in rom means they are not stored in ram. More or less in rom doesn't change the amount of ram available, but it will allow you to store more programs.
    Ok this was my 0ther choice..
    So if I got this right...
    If you look at the /windows directory after installing some programs you can do a directory listing of this directory and a bunch of the files will actually be residing in ROM and some will be residing in RAM. The main difference is that the ROM ones will be read only files that you can not remove. Where as the ones in RAM you can remove. I am assuming then if you have a file in ROM that is the same name as one in RAM in the same directory that the one in RAM will be the one used so you can upgrade what is in ROM this way. (As long as the files that are in ROM are changed... Or otherwise ignored by the new version?)
    I am assuming then that the Registry is copied from ROM during a hard reset and then stored in RAM where it can then be edited and modified.
    But over all it makes sense... If you put the programs in ROM then that still frees up RAM by making it available.

    So then what does putting programs into the ROM do for you? Just allow you to load the programs up upon a hard reset?
    They are already loaded after a hard-reset, and you can strip out things you don't want to run. All OS based programs cannot be removed otherwise.
    Makes sense now that I understand the whole ROM/RAM thing better. (hopefully this might also let others understand WHY we want to redo the ROM)


    Couldn't you do the same thing then by stripping the ROM and creating a CAB file that contains all the programs you want to run? Then just install THAT cab file?
    See answer 1
    So you COULD still do this BUT it would use up RAM... So you COULD build a CAB file that has your programs in it that you want installed after a hard reset so you just install one cab instead of a bunch of them.

    I am now guessing you could take a CAB file and put your registration information in there as well so all you need to do is install the CAB file and its already registered if you include the registry entries with the proper registration codes?
    Yep - I have several cabs I've created with reg info for many different things. Mostly stuff that orig. couldn't be put into a kitchen, now all of it since there wasn't a 700 kitchen.
    I haven't tried looking into this sort of thing yet but this could be very useful. I get tired of going back to emails I have to put the doggone codes in after a hard reset...
    Is this as simple as opening up the CAB file, looking for a registry entry for a CID and putting the registration code in there or something?
    Or do you do a comparison of the Registry before and after registering to see where it changes the code?

    Still keep rereading this thread and a little more sinks in each time.. In a few more days this whole cooking ROMS thing will be second hat...

    And lastly Can we get a totally Stripped ROM to start from?
    I believe that's what the first one was
    I believe if you read the information about the FINAL ROM he deleted some additional stuff from the ROM before he added programs. I want to get a copy of this Stripped ROM BEFORE he added programs so I can add my own...
    I am currently researching this and trying to understand it fully. Once I do I may decide to make my own custom ROM. But thats what this is all about...

    Thanks again to all who have worked on this so far!
  4. #224  
    I am still in the learning process here.. I am a quick study and I can see where we are deleting files from the different locations to save space... and Speed up searches etc....

    With the new programs I am assuming we are putting the files in their proper directories and then making Registry changes. This basically duplicates the whole CAB installation process then. (I am used to writing programs that had to have their own config files.. I am assuming the use of a Registry kind of is like having Environmental variables... So I do understand the concept.. Just instead of a config file we use the Registry now.)

    I noticed however that the Registry appears untouched otherwise. There are a considerable portion of entries that are related to the stripped files. Shouldn't these Registry entries also be removed? Removing unused Registry entries would seem to speed up the phone a little bit more as well as save a little space. I seem to recall programs to strip unused entries and "stranded" entries from PC's to speed up the computer. Looking through the Registry it appears there is a bunch of Bloat there as well. I don't know alot about registries (yet) but looks almost like a registry from a PC... There are entries about Hard drives, Cdroms, floppy drives... Unless I am missing something here you really can't use ANY of those things on the phone so shouldn't we be able to remove a bunch of Junk Registry entries as well?

    Seems like you should be able to do some additional chopping at the Registry level...

    I am considering as well perhaps writing a program that would make an easy to use interface into your Kitchen. Could be done with some scripting I suppose but I am thinking more long term. Look at the "Windows components" on a PC under "Add/Remove programs" in the control panel for the sort of thing I am thinking about. In idea there would be a series of Radio boxes you could check or uncheck for the different features you could have or remove from the ROM... Then at the same time have a routine to pull programs from CABS and install them into the ROM so you could install new programs into the ROM easily. Then "every day" people could just fire up the program, choose what they want to hack off the ROM, Add whatever programs they want to add, finalize the ROM, then burn it to their phone.

    Another addition to this is a potential for a "Transfer" type system.. The idea is you could "Chop" out a program from the ROM and then make a CAB file for it.. This would then allow you to install that CAB somewhere else... Or install it back in at a later date if you so desire so then you could remove functions but store them to put them back in later. This would work well for chopping out stuff from WM6 and installing them into WM5...

    The program would have a series of Templates to use to pick and choose the programs. IE, with the Template you would choose the files to relate to that program and the Registry entries. Someone would have to create the Templates but this would be quite simple once the program was up and running.

    I am assuming the kitchen is using generic tools made available to people from various "hackers" so in Theory if I create such a "beast" it would be relatively simple to create this program in a way that it could be used for many more phones then just the TREO..

    Ok.. Now back to researching this thread, registries in general and looking at getting some programming language to write this in... (I am versed in MANY languages so I am sure I can find one I can figure out.. I have been out of programming for a while but its something that comes natural to me..)
  5. #225  
    If you really want to know how the registry works to boot, here is the documentation from Microsoft on hive based registry startup for Windows Mobile:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms885475.aspx
  6.    #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Landon.Epps View Post
    Quick thing, Ebag, I was trying to edit the registry of the ROM you linked to, but for some reason it doesn't work because it is in a module. I also tried to extract it with CeRegistryEditor, but it "failed within a few lines of line1". Any advice? Thanks.
    Are you talking about the ROM you and Larry got? If so, I haven't messed with it hardly at all, so you're pretty much on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyatt View Post
    Hi ebag, question about your final rom. Is there any way to re-enable the default sip keyboard. when i click on it nothing happens. Thanks
    Not sure what you mean by this. The keyboard works fine for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    But over all it makes sense... If you put the programs in ROM then that still frees up RAM by making it available.

    Makes sense now that I understand the whole ROM/RAM thing better.
    Well......not quite.

    Lets see if I can explain this a bit better.

    What we have is two types of memory here. We have 128 mb of "storage" memory and 64 mb of "program" memory (as it's referenced on the phone).

    Storage memory you can think of like a hard drive. Program memory you can think of as RAM.

    Now the "hard drive" of our phone has the first 64 (roughly) MB of memory reserved for the ROM. The rest of it is free for us to use. (Which is why if you look at free memory is only shows 64 MB total, roughly.)

    What we're doing, essentially, is to move files/programs out of the "open" hard drive space into the "closed" hard drive space, that is move it out of where we normally would install it and into that reserved ROM area.

    This does not effect RAM at all.

    Where people are getting confused is from the reports that with the changes the phone runs faster. It does, but that's not due to us freeing up "RAM", we make zero changes to RAM.

    What we are doing to effect the speed of the phone, however, is two-fold:

    1. By implementing registry tweaks directly into the ROM (meaning loaded at start) we can speed up certain things a bit. Like no animation for menu's. Increasing cache sizes. That sort of thing. Some of these changes actually will actually cause WM5 to use more memory. My final ROM uses roughly 8 to 10 megs more of memory, but to me it's worth it as it causes certain things to happen faster (such as rendering the screen). This means that you have less memory to run for programs (and also means 700w owners might not want to use this ROM).
    2. By removing many files (near 350) from the \Windows\ directory we are speeding up the operating system. Apparently (from what I've read) the theory is that WM5 loops through the \Windows\ directory fairly often. By cutting down on the amount of files that exist there, this drastically speeds up this process.


    I hope that explains this a bit better.



    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    I noticed however that the Registry appears untouched otherwise. There are a considerable portion of entries that are related to the stripped files. Shouldn't these Registry entries also be removed? Removing unused Registry entries would seem to speed up the phone a little bit more as well as save a little space. I seem to recall programs to strip unused entries and "stranded" entries from PC's to speed up the computer. Looking through the Registry it appears there is a bunch of Bloat there as well. I don't know alot about registries (yet) but looks almost like a registry from a PC... There are entries about Hard drives, Cdroms, floppy drives... Unless I am missing something here you really can't use ANY of those things on the phone so shouldn't we be able to remove a bunch of Junk Registry entries as well?

    Seems like you should be able to do some additional chopping at the Registry level...

    I'd love to, but can't.

    Yes cleaning up the registry should make a small difference, but I can only add or modify the registry, I cannot delete any keys.


    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    I am considering as well perhaps writing a program that would make an easy to use interface into your Kitchen. Could be done with some scripting I suppose but I am thinking more long term. Look at the "Windows components" on a PC under "Add/Remove programs" in the control panel for the sort of thing I am thinking about. In idea there would be a series of Radio boxes you could check or uncheck for the different features you could have or remove from the ROM... Then at the same time have a routine to pull programs from CABS and install them into the ROM so you could install new programs into the ROM easily. Then "every day" people could just fire up the program, choose what they want to hack off the ROM, Add whatever programs they want to add, finalize the ROM, then burn it to their phone.
    It's always been my intention to create such an intereface. I was planning on using AutoHotKey as you can build a quite slick (if simplistic) interface into it, and it could easily be maintained by anyone who's so inclined.
  7. kwyatt's Avatar
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    #227  
    the on-screen keyboard.. when i tap on it... no response whatsoever
  8. #228  
    I'd love to, but can't.

    Yes cleaning up the registry should make a small difference, but I can only add or modify the registry, I cannot delete any keys.
    I guess I will have to try reading this thread when I am not so tired...

    Maybe the questions will be answered when I read the thread again... But what is the problem with deleting Registry Entries? If we have the complete ROM and we can modify things we should be able to delete them too or am I missing something again? No utility (yet) to access the registry for full access?

    As to my saving RAM mention...
    The thought was...
    Normally a program resides in RAM... Now that you put it in ROM you still have it there but its in ROM and not RAM... So the space that WOULD have been taken up in RAM is now available for other things... So yes, you end up saving RAM by putting programs in ROM.

    Rodney
  9.    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by kwyatt View Post
    the on-screen keyboard.. when i tap on it... no response whatsoever
    *shrugs* works for me. Bad flash maybe?


    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    Maybe the questions will be answered when I read the thread again... But what is the problem with deleting Registry Entries? If we have the complete ROM and we can modify things we should be able to delete them too or am I missing something again? No utility (yet) to access the registry for full access?
    Converting the hives to registry and back to hive breaks the flash. Even if nothing is changed.

    Modifying the default.hv will result in WM not loading. Modifying the user.hv will result in WM not functioning anywhere close to correctly.

    You can add or modify by editing the PROVXML files.


    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    As to my saving RAM mention...
    The thought was...
    Normally a program resides in RAM... Now that you put it in ROM you still have it there but its in ROM and not RAM... So the space that WOULD have been taken up in RAM is now available for other things... So yes, you end up saving RAM by putting programs in ROM.
    You're confusing RAM and ROM again.

    RAM is temporary memory. When you soft reset the device, or terminate the application, the RAM used by the program is gone. Unrecoverable. Toast.

    "Storage" memory (as it's called on the device) is not temporary, this is where your programs you install normally reside.

    Code:
    Storage (Permanant) Memory:
    
    |---ROM---||---FREE---| = 128 MB
    
    
    RAM (Temporary) Memory:
    
    |---FREE---| = 64 MB
    That diagram might provide a little more insight. The top bar (the 128 meg one) is your storage memory. Your ROM uses about 64 megs of that, leaving about 64 megs free for you to install programs.

    The bottom bar is your RAM. It's completely seperate from the storage memory.

    You install your programs to the top bar (in the free area). Not the bottom one. What you can do with cooking a ROM is to move them from that FREE area to the ROM.
  10. #230  
    Ok, was using poor terminology but thats what I meant...

    So there is 128meg of ROM and 64meg of RAM in these phones?

    I have seen mention elsewhere of a pointer for changing the configuration of the free space and they were mentioning moving it from program space available to usable RAM. So figured there was 64meg ROM and 128meg RAM in these things... With the RAM not being cleared out until it looses power. Soft Resetting only clearing the usable ram and not the program space. Figured this RAM was powered by onboard power storage and if you pulled the battery out long enough and let the onboard power storage run down it would be the same effect as a hard reset since it would eventually loose power and the RAM would clear its self out...
  11.    #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    I have seen mention elsewhere of a pointer for changing the configuration of the free space and they were mentioning moving it from program space available to usable RAM.
    Theoretically we could generate a 125 meg ROM (with everything in it) and could load it on there. I have not tried adding more to the custom rom's than I've removed. I wouldn't recommend trying it unless you're willing to brick your device, because you could really screw it up. The ROM images are a specific size for a reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    So figured there was 64meg ROM and 128meg RAM in these things... With the RAM not being cleared out until it looses power. Soft Resetting only clearing the usable ram and not the program space. Figured this RAM was powered by onboard power storage and if you pulled the battery out long enough and let the onboard power storage run down it would be the same effect as a hard reset since it would eventually loose power and the RAM would clear its self out...
    That's why it's not RAM.

    The storage memory uses a non-volatile file system, meaning that regardless of power you won't lose information. Prior to the Treo 650, Palm did not use the NVFS system, which meant you only had a few seconds to swap your battery before losing everything.

    RAM information is lost when power dies, that's why you will lose the Word doc you were working on (but didn't save) but you won't lose your installed programs if you pull the battery out and let it sit for hours.


    But this is rather off the topic.
  12. #232  
    rulk - go here - http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53 and check this out before doing your program. Even though you probably don't have a 6700 (I used to so was very familiar with all of this) you'll get a better idea of how they put together the kitchen, as opposed to just a rom image. Just a suggestion as they have done a ton of work already that could at least be partially adapted here if you so desire. You might want to contact some of the developers there and see if they might share some of the code/info they used to develop the kitchen.
  13. #233  
    Thank you for the information...

    You will note I have started a new thread for people to discuss how to do this so we dont continue to flood this thread with unrelated "how the heck do I do this" stuff...

    I will look into that and I hope some of you that have been doing this for a while can help point me and other newbies in the right direction...

    In my mind the more people we can get doing custom work the more likely we are to have some seriously cool stuff...

    Rodney
  14. #234  
    I dunno if anyone can do anything with it, but here are the all the HTC Diamond rings and alerts--very nice and peaceful.

    Perhaps someone can replace the default rings/alerts with some of these? Dunno.

    Download here.

    -mal

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. santos's Avatar
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    #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by kwyatt View Post
    Hi ebag, question about your final rom. Is there any way to re-enable the default sip keyboard. when i click on it nothing happens. Thanks
    I too have this issue and I don't think it's a bad flash. I click on the software keyboard and it does not open.
  16. #236  
    I think he added the null keyboard hack to the "final rom"

    Now im wondering how to access my hotmail without the msn stuff on there.... Seems outlook needs it to access hotmail....

    Unless im missing something...

    Rodney
  17.    #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by rulk View Post
    I think he added the null keyboard hack to the "final rom"
    I did, but that shouldn't remove the other keyboards. And mine still works....

    Although I don't see the null keyboard. I might take out that hack since it doesn't seem to be working right.


    Oh, you try hitting the arrow on the right of the keyboard, and selecting different one?
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by hufn View Post
    rulk - go here - http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53 and check this out before doing your program. Even though you probably don't have a 6700 (I used to so was very familiar with all of this) you'll get a better idea of how they put together the kitchen, as opposed to just a rom image. Just a suggestion as they have done a ton of work already that could at least be partially adapted here if you so desire. You might want to contact some of the developers there and see if they might share some of the code/info they used to develop the kitchen.
    If only we had a thread like that for the Treo 700...
    But that isn't too far away considering the progress made here
  19. #239  
    Quick question for anyone what is the point of a module and can you upx an exe in there?
  20. #240  
    Ok, after searching through this thread I haven't found the answers I am looking for...

    What is the ROM dump?

    I see directories of files (exe, dll, hv) that have the same names as files in the windows directory...

    Are these in fact files from the windows directory?

    If so how does the ROM create the other directories and put stuff in the directories?

    I have been "researching" cab files... I haven't gotten anywhere really with them yet but they do seem to look a lot like the "module directories" in the dump folder.

    And while researching that and looking at the registry stuff I actually ran accross where someone was doing registry edits with .ini files... Do .ini files work with WM? Looked like it would be a good way to add, modify or delete registry keys... Also saw where you could use a .reg file but from the initial information I saw it looked like the .ini process would be a bit smoother way of doing it... You could install .ini files right in the rom and run them once to get stuff done with the registry...

    I still have to believe there is a way to edit the roms more fully.. If Sprint was able to create the ROM as an update and made so many changes we should be able to do the same thing....

    Rodney

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