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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster View Post
    I can't believe I recall this, but gadgetfreaky has called Mal this before:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...3&postcount=14

    Perhaps it's merely a cute nickname between friends.
    lmao...errr...no

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ...This is very different than iPhone, N96, etc. which sort of "throw a bone" towards enterprise, but I highly doubt you'll see companies rolling out en masse those devices to their employees, lol.
    While this is true for now I see things rapidly changing as you might be able to judge from some of the Cisco branded screen shots posted at BGR & Engadget. My brother is a Cisco rep and has told me Cisco has really been on Apple's case to get their Exchange/Security act together so they can roll the iPhone out to their employees nationwide. THAT is some serious revenue. All it takes is one large, respected (and more importantly, embedded in the IT depts of HUGE enterprises worldwide) tech company like Cisco to put that kind of faith in Apple and others will soon follow suit. It is no accident that Apple is allowing Cisco that kind of access.

    I swear I'm not an Apple fan boy, just trying to make a point. I would have been first in line to get an 800w when my contract was up in January. I really, REALLY wanted to avoid getting an iPhone. But if the Touch is my only WM alternative with decent specs on VZW I'm afraid that will be the easiest choice I've ever made.
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  3. #63  
    In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.

    But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster View Post
    I can't believe I recall this, but gadgetfreaky has called Mal this before:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...3&postcount=14

    Perhaps it's merely a cute nickname between friends.
    LMAO
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Entertain me for a second. Beside mutlitasking (a somewhat over-rated feature, imo), what exactly does the HTC Touch do that the Palm Centro does not?

    Pretend I never used either platform (but prepare for my counter as I'm very proficient in both).
    I'm all for entertainment.

    OK... one of the things I've been wanting to do is to use LogMeIn, but I can't do that with my Treo 650... Blazer just doesn't seem to care for it, and from what I've read across the Internet, there is no support whatsoever for LogMeIn on a Palm platform, but there is for Windows.

    In fact, it's things like this that have me interested in moving from PalmOS to Windows Mobile... so the HTC Touch has Windows Mobile, and the Palm Centro does not.
    Who's flying this thing?
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Oh boy, Here Malatesta goes again with the conspiracy theories and downright making stuff up
    I'd be thoroughly disappointed (and not addicted to this board) if we didn't have people theorizing and speculating here. Quite frankly, most of us don't actually know what's going on (and the few that do, if any, probably can't talk about what we want to know), but at least we don't know together.

    I suppose that doesn't exactly differentiate our group from any other group of people.
    Who's flying this thing?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    It'll be certainly interesting to see if/when it comes out if it has anything that was worth waiting for e.g. QChat, WM 6.1 (or higher), etc. If it has just WM 6.0 and nothing really "wow" then I think we can certainly attribute any delays to Palm. OTOTH, if it has say...the oft-rumored "WM 6.5" which is some hybrid of WM6 and WM7, then we know it was for "other" reasons and was purposefully delayed, much like the HTC 6800 was delayed for 6-12 months on Sprint and Verizon, respectively.
    I can't quite imagine how you'd justify how to attribute the delays for that criteria. There's just too many variables for me to think that it would absolutely be Palm's fault for a delay if the device has just WM 6.0 and nothing really "wow", for example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I heard from a very reliable source that Palm has toyed with "flush screens" as recently as the Centro and had working tester versions.

    Evidently, their testers did not like the idea as they were constantly worried about scratching the screen.
    I wonder if they've been using more-easily-scratchable screen materials... haven't many manufacturers gotten over this hurdle?


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Like I said, if it comes out and has
    • a recessed screen
    • no Qchat
    • no WM6.1+
    • no new "underlying technology" e.g. chipset, etc
    Then I definitely think we can get the angry mob together...lol.
    One big mob aw yea aw yea
    One big mob aw yea aw yea
    Eh bara mala aw yea aw yea
    Eh bara mala aw yea aw yea


    Red Hot Chili Peppers, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I dunno, was the HTC 6800 delay of 6-12 months worth it for WM6 (and the following 8 month delay for GPS/RevA)? Pretty personal choice I suppose (especially with those "downgraders" at ppcgeeks who put WM5 back on )
    I'd say if they put the additional memory in to support WM6, then it would've been unquestionably worth it. Otherwise, gray area.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No argument there. But Palm knows that 2008 is not their time to compete with Nokia and those prosumer devices--that's just the reality of the situation. At least they are still saying Nova is "on track". If they make it to 2009 and have a new OS--that's when you'll see those devices, suposedly.
    I've read a lot about people's predictions for Palm's survivability, and now I'll share my own.
    Disclaimer to gadgetfreaky: I'm theorizing and making this up.
    Palm won't die for at least another two years, though it certainly could be acquired and shrunk in that timeframe.

    Palm's biggest potential appears to exist in the Centro (yeah, tight margins, but it sells) and in their future WM Treos. As much as I've loved PalmOS in the past, it's just not a growing platform. The fact that it's well-established suits it pretty well for the cheap Centro. The PalmOS Treos, on the other hand, are too expensive and not differentiated-enough from the Centro. That, combined with the non-growing platform, is practically a death sentence for those devices.

    The next PalmOS (linux-based) is a huge risk. I'd bet that if Palm were acquired before it launches, we'd never see it appear.

    The future WM Treos have much more potential than any PalmOS Treo, because they can come out much more soon than the next PalmOS, and because Palm could deliver enhancements on the WM platform that make it a bit more desireable (much like they did back when the launched the 700w initially). Palm could position themselves as a worthy competitor in the WM interface innovation space to HTC, though I really wonder if they have the chutzpah to do it.
    Who's flying this thing?
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbound View Post
    I'd be thoroughly disappointed (and not addicted to this board) if we didn't have people theorizing and speculating here. Quite frankly, most of us don't actually know what's going on (and the few that do, if any, probably can't talk about what we want to know), but at least we don't know together.

    I suppose that doesn't exactly differentiate our group from any other group of people.
    True but the theories have to be at least somewhat supported by reality. Using false sources, using factually incorrect statements, bringing up ideas from 2-3 years ago that don't represent current trends in wireless, in fact quite the opposite is not in fact constructive.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.

    But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.
    He's been grinding that axe against the carriers based on "inside sources" for what a year? How true has it turned out to be? Is it possible for a handset manufacturer to run into problems with one carrier in one country that slows a model down? Sure absolutely--it happens all the time and frequently. VZ tends to hold up phones the phones the most, others not so much.

    How possible is it then to run into delays at ALL the carriers across the Planet...for 2-3 years?....Sprint Maybe, but every other carrier on the planet is just holding palm back and preventing it from innovating for 3 years. Is that a plausible thought even though he claims to have all these inside sources?

    Let's pause on this idea for just a second. How likely is that to be the true problem here rather than just being a misleading idea that has no grounding in any reality?

    This theory as an excuse for why Palm can't get an innovative product out for 3 years not only strains credulity but its a relatively stupid theory.

    Just be very careful when you read stuff from this guy. He likes to frequently quote "inside sources" and they often tend to be false or just very imagintative creative "theories". If it's a theory it should be couched otherwise. There is no reason people can't theorize, but they should be supported by facts, rather than imaginary people inside wireless companies telling him things.

    For example, I've seen him make up inside sources at HTC telling him something that I for a 100% fact know are not true. I called him on it and he backed off so quick it was obvious he had talked to nobody and had made the entire story up much like this theory on it all being Sprint's fault.

    Additionally his theory that Carriers are stopping handset manufacturers does not hold water given many if not all of the carriers are opening their networks to any device that will work on them. Verizon, which has been the worst offender opened its network up.

    It creates a vibrant and interesting discussion when people exchange ideas and theories, but not when the sources are made up and one claims special insights when its fake.

    I can understand people getting overly excited and wanting to look like they are "in the know" But making up inside sources is not credible and saying it's all "just for fun" is not appropriate. This is supposed to be a forum where we try and figure out what's really occurring in the marketplace..if you want "fun" go to myspace and make stuff up there.

    In short, don't make up inside sources just to make yourself look like something you are not.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    but every other carrier on the planet is just holding palm back and preventing it from innovating for 3 years.
    Palm's lack of timely innovation has sucked, in my opinion. I sure couldn't place all the blame for the time between handset launches from Palm on the carriers. I could certainly believe the following:
    • Palm appears to have taken some misguided steps, resulting in a lack of focus on the handset business in ways that have made it less competitive.
    • For all manufacturers, some carriers are a pain in the when a timely launch is desired, and I do recall (hopefully correctly) some delays being blamed on "testing", yet even after delivery some of those products didn't appear to be tested well-enough.
    • I suspect that Palm either doesn't do a good job marketing their products to all carriers, or that many carriers are hesitant to get too involved with Palm, as it's a relatively small manufacturer, and their future certainly isn't obviously fabulous (understatement).
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Just be very careful when you read stuff from this guy. He likes to frequently quote "inside sources" and they often tend to be false or just very imagintative creative "theories".
    Gosh, aren't all sources codswallop until we hear something from one of the companies involved? Not saying I don't get excited by some of the stuff I hear via "theories", "inside sources", and rumors, but I really ought to reconsider what I'm eating for breakfast if I start counting on those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Additionally his theory that Carriers are stopping handset manufacturers does not hold water given many if not all of the carriers are opening their networks to any device that will work on them. Verizon, which has been the worst offender opened its network up.
    Ah... speaking of theories that don't hold water (in my opinion)... please explain (or provide the link where you already explained it) how the fact that the recent opening up of networks to any device would impact phones that entered the pipeline before the network has been opened up. I just don't understand this theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    This is supposed to be a forum where we try and figure out what's really occurring in the marketplace..if you want "fun" go to myspace and make stuff up there.
    Well, since you're taking the T-Bird away, I'd better get back to work...

    P.S. Completely off-topic... but I'm very pleased I used the word "codswallop". It's a recent fave... thought I'd share.
    Who's flying this thing?
  11. #71  
    Yes, my bad everyone.

    It is with great displeasure for me to introduce GadgetFreaky...my very own online anti-fan who like to follow all my posts, make incoherent arguments, offer no evidence and joke around how he "used to be" some upper employee of some off the shelf cell company.

    Take a gander at his post history and you'll see an overwhelming % are all about me , which I have to say makes me very happy...

    Enjoy his show! (I can't respond just because he's be "plonked" a long time ago).

    PS
    For those curious about carriers, innovation, etc. and my shady "insider sources" I encourage you to look at such radical readings as the

    and senior counsel for the Consumers Union (aka Consumer Reports) and on behalf of Free Press, Chris Murray, who gave testimony before Congress last summer on this issue (warning: pdf).

    I should also note, Sprint currently has the Samsung "Ace" GSM locked, so they're still putting themselves ahead of the customer.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.
    They did sorta kill the UI on the Tilt, eh? lol Luckily people can tweak their way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post

    But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.
    No doubt.

    The 800w should have come out at least a year ago. There should have been a 320x320 750 released as soon as WM 6 came out and we should have many more devices to choose from.

    We just have to attribute a lot of this to poor management, bad decision making in the past and the current "transition" process with Elevation (which is "ahead of schedule", whatever that means).

    As for "rest of the world" and Palm, considering the US makes up 82% of their sales, getting it right here in the U.S. is critical.

    Luckily, unlike GSM here, Sprint and Verizon have a pretty limited and shoddy WM lineup . It'd be cool to try the Asus m536 if that's ever released...
    Last edited by Malatesta; 03/25/2008 at 12:03 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    As for "rest of the world" and Palm, considering the US makes up 82% of their sales, getting it right here in the U.S. is critical.
    I keep hearing that, and I keep seeing phones from other manufacturers launched outside the U.S. that many of us wishes we had, and I think, why is it that getting it right here in the U.S. is critical? It seems to me that companies like Nokia and HTC are doing pretty well overseas, such that the U.S. isn't as critical.

    Sure, I'd like to see more success on U.S. soil, but I would think that if the U.S. is such a tough market, Palm would work that much harder on what appear to be much easier markets outside the U.S... unless what I perceive is wrong, of course.
    Who's flying this thing?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbound View Post
    I keep hearing that, and I keep seeing phones from other manufacturers launched outside the U.S. that many of us wishes we had, and I think, why is it that getting it right here in the U.S. is critical? It seems to me that companies like Nokia and HTC are doing pretty well overseas, such that the U.S. isn't as critical.

    Sure, I'd like to see more success on U.S. soil, but I would think that if the U.S. is such a tough market, Palm would work that much harder on what appear to be much easier markets outside the U.S... unless what I perceive is wrong, of course.
    No, it's a good point. I think the issue is for Palm it's "less competition" in the US and they have more cozy carrier relationships.

    Euro-land is very competitive and they'd get walloped pretty quickly if they went all out in the shape they are in right now.

    Euro = easier to innovate/launch but much tougher competition
    US = harder to launch and get innovation through, easier competition

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Euro-land is very competitive and they'd get walloped pretty quickly if they went all out in the shape they are in right now.
    They certainly seem to be in worse shape now than they have been in the past, and such an effort now may be beyond their reach.

    Then again, perhaps it's telling of Palm's 'thirst', if I may speculate. After all, wouldn't the level of competition in Europe drive innovation... and then wouldn't that innovation work well when trying to improve their position in the U.S. market?

    Who knows... I'm not in Ed's shoes (plus, I doubt he's a size 13), and I can't see all the strings that control the company (should I also mention that I've never worked for a cell phone company? )... but I'm a firm believer that if you're going to go out and do something, do it well and make it worth it... don't do it half-ed.
    Who's flying this thing?
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbound View Post
    Who knows... I'm not in Ed's shoes (plus, I doubt he's a size 13), and I can't see all the strings that control the company (should I also mention that I've never worked for a cell phone company? )... but I'm a firm believer that if you're going to go out and do something, do it well and make it worth it... don't do it half-ed.
    Agree 100%

    That's why I'm not that thrilled with "blame Palm/management/Ed", not because they don't deserve the criticism or because it's not their responsibility (they do and it is), but it evades the real answer--why did they decide to do "X".

    Dieter and I often discuss why Palm didn't do a 320x320 Treo 750. Obviously you can just go "Palm is terrible, that's why" but I'm more interested in the real answer, the one that was given presumably during a meeting: too expensive? AT&T not interested? Need to refocus? Tight supply chain?

    Who knows. But it would be nice to have some more transparency with the OEMs and the carriers. It'd be kinda nice if Palm just popped on their blog and discuss this stuff but obviously there are things we are not privy too. Then again, a lot can be said for Sprint/Verizon not mentioning the 800w officially...because officially there is no delay, there is no disappointment. Financially, it's obviously a different story.

    Hopefully when the 800w comes out, some Palm or leaked info will come out about why it took them so long (that's without judging the reason).

    Re: earlier about the flush screens

    The material is pretty scratch resistant these days, but from what I was told it was more or less the perception that such a pocketable device would be prone to scratches. Good enough reason? Probably not, but I don't know if its such a big deal on the Centro anyway..

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  16. #76  
    i think the reason palm had done so well in the past was because there was no open market and the competition was very small. after htc, moto, eten, and many others joined the smart phone revolution, palm just rested on their name. though the name was strong, the product showed its age fast because of the rapid acceleration of tech. i was a die hard fan of palm since the 650 days, but palm, in my eyes, has done nothing to hold on to their customer base. many people have said here that the 8525/8925 are very difficult to use and they are not very good to use one handed. i listen to that and agree but laugh at the same time. though i can not use my 8525 with one hand, i have a device which makes the 750 look like a cave man's cell phone---do you have wifi, more memory, a better all around device. and if you have the tilt, go ahead and add gps. if the 800 does not show up soon or it shows up handicapped, the blind followers, which at one time included me, can say good bye to palm
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  17. hkklife's Avatar
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    #77  
    Mal;
    In a nutshell and in your humble opinion, why did we not see a 320x320 WM6 755w sometime in '07?

    No carrier demand for such a beast? Or was Palm being arrogant/cheap/lazy/complacent etc? I think that a CDMA 755w would've been a natural follow-up to the rapidly aging 700w/wx. Palm did all of the heavy-lifting, formfactor & innards-wise, for the 700p/w/wx/755p, so you'd think a 755w would've been a no-brainer and a nice WM6 stopgap device until the 800w arrived sometime in '08.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by WMExperts Articles View Post
    We're listening in on the Palm Quarterly Results Conference call and we have some bad news to report. CEO Ed Colligan just confirmed our worst fear, with regard to “new Windows Mobile Treos,” he said this:

    > *Those products are not coming out this quarter.*

    Ouch. Earlier in the call Colligan said new Windows Mobile Treos would be released “before the end of summer.” If you're currently entered in our Treo 800w Rumortastic Giveaway, it's time to go update your guess.

    That giveaway, if you didn't know, is that we are going to give away a Treo 800w plus some great extras to a lucky commenter who can guess the release date.

    Read more at http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/tr...rive_unti.html

    On the bright side, Colligan is also saying that the new Treo (which he didn't name, but come on!) “will be the most competitive enterprise solution in the marketplace.”
    Is this the same conference call on which he announced that revenues are down 24%. Do you suppose they will get rid of this clown while there is still some Palm left. This guy is not a founder. He is a caretaker who has not taken care.
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  19. #79  
    A real 800 would be POS and GSM. (We should all live so long.) Who even cares about an 800w/CDMA?

    Perry, where are you?
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    A real 800 would be POS and GSM. (We should all live so long.) Who even cares about an 800w/CDMA?

    Perry, where are you?
    I do, and I'm the one who counts to me. Seriously, though... once you get a bit of distance outside of Boston GSM is much less available compared to CDMA where I need it. That, and while I really did love PalmOS, well... let's just say I didn't feel loved.

    Even Perry seems tempted.
    Follow the happy avatar and watch as the dark side appears to take over...

    Hey... what's that pink thing in the sky?
    Who's flying this thing?
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