Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1.    #1  
    Did a search and didn't find too much on this assuption so here's a new thread.

    Assuming what we think we know about the 800w, it seems to share the same features that the Mogul has. Based on that, I'm assuming that it has the same Qulacomm chipset as the Mogul (MSM7500??).
    That would thus mean that it has the same Bluetooth, WiFi, Rev.A ED-DO, camera and most likely the same xScale processor. So essentially, it's a Mogul in a Treo dress.

    Anyone think I'm way off base here? If not, we could also assume that the 800w's performance is equal to the Mogul. Never having tried a Mogul, is this good news or bad news???
  2. #2  
    I would think the main significant difference would be having 128 mb ram, which is a pretty big deal these days, and one if the areas where the Mongul really falls down.

    Surur
  3. #3  
    The MSM-7500 chipset does not include wifi or bt, just the ability to directly control those features.

    e.g. HTC tends to use Texas Instruments WL1251 for wifi in its devices, but obviously there are other wifi solutions from different companies to choose from...

    Same goes with BT, camera lens and fixture as well as any hardware choices for things like antenna, screen, speakers, etc. None of those are a result of the msm-7500.

    In fact, even the chipset may vary. There is a msm-7500a version that uses a 63nm configuration i.e. it's smaller than the msm-7500 90nm. In addition there are other Qualcomm chipsets that they may be using that are newer or Palm might not even be using Qualcomm what with their litigation and injunction problems.

    So there can be lots of hardware differences between the two--just going by "the numbers" or abbreviations doesn't tell you anything. There is also no definitive evidence that HTC is involved with the 800w. Going further, since the development cycle between the 6800 and 800w is at least 1 year apart, presumably the 800w would benefit from improved hardware, faster memory, better speakers, etc.

    Then the big issue is "How well is the hardware married to the software?", which is where Palm can either shine or fail with the 800w.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 03/16/2008 at 01:51 PM.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    There is also no definitive evidence that HTC is involved with the 800w.
    Based upon the 6800 I tried, I hope HTC was kept away from the 800. The 6800 felt cheap and lightweight as compared to my old Treo 600 and the XV 6700 I'm currently using.

    Please VZW save us from the XV6800 and it's lack of RAM - SOON!

    RMD
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The MSM-7500 chipset does not include wifi or bt, just the ability to directly control those features.
    Malatesta: Great info...like I said, I'm making assuptions. That dynamically changes those assuptions based on your information.

    Since the time I originally posted, I now have a Mogul (actually, my wife's). I think it performs well for a "current" device. However, thinking that the 800w should have a life of about 18 months, I sure hope the performance surpasses how the Mogul performs now (using that as a benchmark). Software integration with the hardware and faster peripherals would seem only incremental improvements to the overall feel of the device. I personally have the HTC Touch which has more memory than the Mogul, and, although it is an overall performance improvement, it doesn't make a miraculous Jesus phone either. But we are talking about HTC devices vs. a Palm device. That is apples 'n oranges and I don't have any experience with the 800w. I'm just throwing the idea out there that based on the MSM-7500, there may be only so much polishing you can do to a turd....
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    Malatesta: Great info...like I said, I'm making assuptions. That dynamically changes those assuptions based on your information.

    Since the time I originally posted, I now have a Mogul (actually, my wife's). I think it performs well for a "current" device. However, thinking that the 800w should have a life of about 18 months, I sure hope the performance surpasses how the Mogul performs now (using that as a benchmark). Software integration with the hardware and faster peripherals would seem only incremental improvements to the overall feel of the device. I personally have the HTC Touch which has more memory than the Mogul, and, although it is an overall performance improvement, it doesn't make a miraculous Jesus phone either. But we are talking about HTC devices vs. a Palm device. That is apples 'n oranges and I don't have any experience with the 800w. I'm just throwing the idea out there that based on the MSM-7500, there may be only so much polishing you can do to a turd....
    always glad to assist.

    actually, it's pretty well confirmed now that the 800w is using the msm-6800 chipset--a much different beast than the msm-7500.

    In fact two points:

    msm-6800 will behave differently than the msm-7500 (hopefully better)
    Palm has done some deep level OS tweaks to WM 6.x

    That latter point is only being noticed by myself, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $but$ $it$ $is$ $very$ $important$. $Palm$ $did$ $the$ $same$ $for$ $the$ $700wx$ $and$ $even$ $though$ $it$ $had$ $a$ $slower$ $processor$ $than$ $the$ $6700$, $it$ $was$ $always$ $snappier$ $than$ $that$ $device$ ($plus$ $had$ $more$ $available$ $RAM$).

    Case in point:

    Sprint Touch:
    128/256mb RAM
    73/151mb RAM actual (after OS)

    Palm 800w
    128/256mb RAM
    100mb/170mb RAM actual (after OS)

    That difference is huge: 25mb of more RAM and about 20mb of more storage memory. Where'd it all go? That's most likely due to Palm stripping the down the OS as that was roughly the same ratio between the 700wx and ppc-6700.

    I'm expecting the 800w to be "very snappy" in use, compared to other WM devices.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    Malatesta: Great info...like I said, I'm making assuptions. That dynamically changes those assuptions based on your information.

    Since the time I originally posted, I now have a Mogul (actually, my wife's). I think it performs well for a "current" device. However, thinking that the 800w should have a life of about 18 months, I sure hope the performance surpasses how the Mogul performs now (using that as a benchmark). Software integration with the hardware and faster peripherals would seem only incremental improvements to the overall feel of the device. I personally have the HTC Touch which has more memory than the Mogul, and, although it is an overall performance improvement, it doesn't make a miraculous Jesus phone either. But we are talking about HTC devices vs. a Palm device. That is apples 'n oranges and I don't have any experience with the 800w. I'm just throwing the idea out there that based on the MSM-7500, there may be only so much polishing you can do to a turd....
    Another thing worth noting is that the 700wx with its lowly 312mhz processor is one of the snappiest wm5 devices out there. Far quicker than other devices that have 400+mhz processors.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Case in point:

    Sprint Touch:
    128/256mb RAM
    73/151mb RAM actual (after OS)

    Palm 800w
    128/256mb RAM
    100mb/170mb RAM actual (after OS)

    That difference is huge: 25mb of more RAM and about 20mb of more storage memory. Where'd it all go? That's most likely due to Palm stripping the down the OS as that was roughly the same ratio between the 700wx and ppc-6700.

    I'm expecting the 800w to be "very snappy" in use, compared to other WM devices.
    I guess that's a factor of Palm closely marrying hardware and software by nature of their roots in the device business. Too bad that other manufactures don't dig this deep. I guess with release cycles and schedules, its always easier to slap the legos together (my hardware with your standard OS offering) rather than custom carve the OS to work optimally with the hardware. Unfortunately, thats a double edged sword in the world of standardization and under appreciated by the masses who want the next best thing...right now...

    In your opinion, how does the 800w perform, say against a Mogul or Touch? Has Palm's 'extra mile' effort in tweaking the OS/hardware going to pay off?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    I guess that's a factor of Palm closely marrying hardware and software by nature of their roots in the device business. Too bad that other manufactures don't dig this deep. I guess with release cycles and schedules, its always easier to slap the legos together (my hardware with your standard OS offering) rather than custom carve the OS to work optimally with the hardware. Unfortunately, thats a double edged sword in the world of standardization and under appreciated by the masses who want the next best thing...right now...

    In your opinion, how does the 800w perform, say against a Mogul or Touch? Has Palm's 'extra mile' effort in tweaking the OS/hardware going to pay off?
    You hit the nail on the head- and this is why Treos are the best wm devices available.

    Cant speaker for the 800, but the Mogul and touch were no faster than my WX. The mogul was actually slower if I remember correctly but the mogul is an admittedly flawed device so outperfroming it should not be any benchmark.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  10. #10  
    Ive asked this in other threads and havent gotten an answer...

    Speaking of hardware, does anyone know if the new 800 will have full size SD cards or Micro/Mini?

    Thanks!
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    In your opinion, how does the 800w perform, say against a Mogul or Touch? Has Palm's 'extra mile' effort in tweaking the OS/hardware going to pay off?
    Since I don't have an 800w, can't say for sure.

    But...I'm going with an overwhelming "yes" and I will be very shocked if it's "about the same" or "slower".

    It'll also be interesting to see it against those upcoming HTC devices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    Ive asked this in other threads and havent gotten an answer...

    Speaking of hardware, does anyone know if the new 800 will have full size SD cards or Micro/Mini?

    Thanks!
    It has to be micro-SD--it's what the Centro is using and I don't see any compelling reason one would want full SD or mini at this point as the industry is standardizing around micro...

    I'm sure we'll find out for sure soon.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  12. #12  
    Yah cept those that have invested heavily in SD or SDHC cards.

    Sigh. 16GB will be hard to down scale/grade from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    It has to be micro-SD--it's what the Centro is using and I don't see any compelling reason one would want full SD or mini at this point as the industry is standardizing around micro...

    I'm sure we'll find out for sure soon.
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  13. hkklife's Avatar
    Posts
    439 Posts
    Global Posts
    605 Global Posts
    #13  
    microSDHC, just like the Centro (and, presumably, all future Palm products).

    For what it's worth, IMO, any device larger than a Centro that uses mini microSD shows that their manufacturer is taking the easy/cheap/lazy way out.

    Despite the relative size trade-offs and reliance on spring-loaded card ejecting (usually), fullsize SDHC is unmatched from a capacity/performance/compatibility standpoint.

    Palm was on the right track for the perfect Small Square Screen + QWERTY formfactor with the Treo 680 and its fullsize slot but then regressed to miniSD (750, 755p) and then again with microSDHC (Centro, 800w).

    IMO, Palm only ditched fullsize SDHC b/c the increasing card capacities (4GB+) were showing FrankenGarnet's 32-bit addressing limitations with large volume cards. Moving backwards to miniSD then to microSD bought Palm an extra year without having to actually address Garnet's filesystem issues. Now, having microSD on the 800w just saves Palm's OEMs a few fractions of a cent per device from a manufacturing standpoint.
    Last edited by hkklife; 05/19/2008 at 03:20 PM.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    microSDHC, just like the Centro (and, presumably, all future Palm products).

    For what it's worth, IMO, any device larger than a Centro that uses mini microSD shows that their manufacturer is taking the easy/cheap/lazy way out.

    Despite the relative size trade-offs and reliance on spring-loaded card ejecting (usually), fullsize SDHC is unmatched from a capacity/performance/compatibility standpoint.

    Palm was on the right track for the perfect Small Square Screen + QWERTY formfactor with the Treo 680 and its fullsize slot but then regressed to miniSD (750, 755p) and then again with microSDHC (Centro, 800w).

    IMO, Palm only ditched fullsize SDHC b/c the increasing card capacities (4GB+) were showing FrankenGarnet's 32-bit addressing limitations with large volume cards. Moving backwards to miniSD then to microSD bought Palm an extra year without having to actually address Garnet's filesystem issues. Now, having microSD on the 800w just saves Palm's OEMs a few fractions of a cent per device from a manufacturing standpoint.
    Really?

    You don't think the size of the full size SD physical drive vs the one for Micro has anything to do with it? That's a bold statement.

    Full size SD is huge compared to micro...I'd wonder why any manufacture would use anything larger than micro. If you're an engineer, you want the smallest thing possible to make room for other hardware.

    As far as speed/performance, aren't all SDHC-types based on "Speed Class". So how is a SDHC card have better "performance" than a microSDHC card? They don't, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK.

    Re: "compatibility", I don't see why using any of the freebie adapters are such a problem. I use microSD to SD adapters all the time with no issues.

    Re: "capacity", no doubt SD is higher but microSD is at 8gb right now and 16gb is expected this summer. Honestly, the amount of people "waiting" for 16gb cards vs. those who in Enterprise would be happy with 2,4,6 or 8gb has to be very small.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    IMO, Palm only ditched fullsize SDHC b/c the increasing card capacities (4GB+) were showing FrankenGarnet's 32-bit addressing limitations with large volume cards. Moving backwards to miniSD then to microSD bought Palm an extra year without having to actually address Garnet's filesystem issues. Now, having microSD on the 800w just saves Palm's OEMs a few fractions of a cent per device from a manufacturing standpoint.
    You continue to beat this conspiracy drum even though I have already pointed out to you last year that the cost savings from a full size SD to a microSD socket was ~$0.82 which is an enormous sum to an OEM and coupled with the board real estate savings it beacame an inevitable change.

    Every pocket device manufacturer has been moving to microSD and I am sorry you have a giant stack of SD cards lying around, but perhaps you can get together with the folks that have a laser disc collection and rage against the machine together...lol
  16. #16  
    Not to jump off topic, but what on earth are you putting 16 gigs of stuff on your phone for? Im all for the idea of " Better to have and not need" but what exactly is all the space needed for? Music? File transfer? No offense of course, just curious. Plus.... memory will always be larger and cheaper as time passes... and by the time this Treo is out....
  17. #17  
    Not to mention.... If one 8 gig card isnt enough... There is always this thing called taking one out and putting another one in there... (Now try THAT with an Iphone...)

    You could have unlimited memory then...

    What I would more like to see is them to put multiple memory slots into the phone.. That way you can have one for your normal system stuff and one as an add on for things like pictures or movies and such... Tie one down so it works better when loading programs on it and such...

    Imagine what you could do if you had 8gig of system memory... And another 8 or 16 gig of other memory.. Would be nice too if they would atleast have a way to have an adapter so you could plug in flash drives into the phone to load up the phone without taking out the memory card.... With the miniUSB socket it would seem that it would just be a matter of time...
  18. chong67's Avatar
    Posts
    956 Posts
    Global Posts
    983 Global Posts
    #18  
    So Palm did the 800 with any HTC help? All American design and engineering?

    Hard to believe.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by chong67 View Post
    So Palm did the 800 with any HTC help? All American design and engineering?

    Hard to believe.
    hey now....while the HTC Diamond & Raphael looks awesome that will be the first HTC product imo that is truly cool. Prior to that HTC has just been make em cheap and fast r. us.

    America has the Iphone man...you cant say we don't know how to innovate.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by overbyc1 View Post
    Not to jump off topic, but what on earth are you putting 16 gigs of stuff on your phone for? Im all for the idea of " Better to have and not need" but what exactly is all the space needed for? Music? File transfer? No offense of course, just curious. Plus.... memory will always be larger and cheaper as time passes... and by the time this Treo is out....
    A lot of people like to take their music and video collection with them. Good for plane rides, working out etc.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions