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  1. jas o's Avatar
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    #301  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbinbi View Post
    Verizon's comment was that it would be open for phones that have compatable radios. These are CDMA phones. VZW is not going to change to GSM. All of their infrastructure, billions of $ are built around CDMA. Dual band phones such as their new (ne old now) Blacberry world phone has both cdma and gsm. However a gsm phone will not work alone.
    Are you sure about them not changing to GSM? This article from Endaget seems to indicate a change. Maybe I am not reading it correctly????

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/v...n-4g-networks/

    I was really wondering what they would do with thier existing infrastructure. Rent / Sale it to sprint and Alltel?
  2. #302  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Certainly interesting information. The Treo 750 is getting that upgrade in the Spring, which means if it's part of 6.1 then the 750 is getting 6.1 as well.
    Something else you may find interesting is that the MS TechNet rep said WM6 fully supports windows update and could easily update itself to 6.1. However, there are no carriers that allow such convenience
  3. #303  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluesk1d View Post
    Something else you may find interesting is that the MS TechNet rep said WM6 fully supports windows update and could easily update itself to 6.1. However, there are no carriers that allow such convenience
    I thought about that possibility...thanks for the confirmation though on the actual ability

    Gah, even with that Update feature, which some of us thought would allow them to bypass carrier certs, we're out of luck.

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  4. efudd's Avatar
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    #304  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jas O View Post
    Are you sure about them not changing to GSM? This article from Endaget seems to indicate a change. Maybe I am not reading it correctly????

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/v...n-4g-networks/

    I was really wondering what they would do with thier existing infrastructure. Rent / Sale it to sprint and Alltel?

    they already 'rent' it to the others in the form of roaming agreements.

    By the time verizon moves to that though sprint will already be heavily into wimax and might just be dumping cdma themselves and going to that or some new flavor of something anyway.

    alltel as best I can figure owns very little in the way of an actual network and just pays sprint and verizon to roam on those networks for much of the US- ( i certainly could be wrong....) IF thats the case and sprint is going to wimax and vz to that gsm type upgrade then alltel is likely to just convert what they have to a new standard anywho. And if VZ really is going gsm=ish then anyone left on CDMA would likely get the heck out of that since there would be few if any roaming partners to use- it would be smartest just to give in and go gsm like basically everyone else would be at that point (except perhaps sprint with wimax or something). WHat good is a cdma network that only covers a small percentage of the US when you can't roam in the rest of the US....
  5. #305  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    they already 'rent' it to the others in the form of roaming agreements.

    By the time verizon moves to that though sprint will already be heavily into wimax and might just be dumping cdma themselves and going to that or some new flavor of something anyway.

    alltel as best I can figure owns very little in the way of an actual network and just pays sprint and verizon to roam on those networks for much of the US- ( i certainly could be wrong....) IF thats the case and sprint is going to wimax and vz to that gsm type upgrade then alltel is likely to just convert what they have to a new standard anywho. And if VZ really is going gsm=ish then anyone left on CDMA would likely get the heck out of that since there would be few if any roaming partners to use- it would be smartest just to give in and go gsm like basically everyone else would be at that point (except perhaps sprint with wimax or something). WHat good is a cdma network that only covers a small percentage of the US when you can't roam in the rest of the US....
    Just a quick notation is howiecam name? SLINKLY. We never heard back from him after the pm to him by the forum moderator.
  6. #306  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jas O View Post
    Are you sure about them not changing to GSM? This article from Endaget seems to indicate a change. Maybe I am not reading it correctly????

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/v...n-4g-networks/

    I was really wondering what they would do with thier existing infrastructure. Rent / Sale it to sprint and Alltel?
    I think that what you would see is similar to how AT&T weened off of their TDMA network. The other thing to recognize is that this most likely will not consitute a full new build out. Obviously the same towers (maybe even antennas) and network infastructure will continue to be used.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  7. #307  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    Just a quick notation is howiecam name? SLINKLY. We never heard back from him after the pm to him by the forum moderator.
    not true at all, he came back and even laughed at the "conspiracy theories" about the PM.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...8&postcount=78

    He just doesn't care that much about the 800w and isn't as obsessive ;-)

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  8. #308  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    not true at all, he came back and even laughed at the "conspiracy theories" about the PM.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...8&postcount=78

    He just doesn't care that much about the 800w and isn't as obsessive ;-)
    Well he gave us no new information after the initial release of information. I am not so sure that Howie even saw the device
  9. #309  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    Well he gave us no new information after the initial release of information. I am not so sure that Howie even saw the device
    True, though from my understanding he doesn't have easy access to one--it was someone he was visiting, I believe, who works for a company doing testing with one.

    So it was more of a sighting of the 800w...but I think he wanted to dispel any rumors that somehow he was "silenced" by Dieter, which was a pretty funny notion ;-)

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  10. #310  
    double post.
  11. #311  
    Quote Originally Posted by robber View Post
    I think that what you would see is similar to how AT&T weened off of their TDMA network. The other thing to recognize is that this most likely will not consitute a full new build out. Obviously the same towers (maybe even antennas) and network infastructure will continue to be used.
    TDMA is just an American Flavor of GSM. And don't forget, Bell South bought ATT and Bell South was GSM not TDMA. ATT was TDMA.
  12.    #312  
    Umm.. TDMA is the NA cousin of GSM????

    I think T-mobile and AT&T would beg to differ with you on that.

    I think you need to do some reading on Wikipedia or just google the two terms.

    PS, I am NOT slinky.
  13. #313  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    Umm.. TDMA is the NA cousin of GSM????

    I think T-mobile and AT&T would beg to differ with you on that.

    I think you need to do some reading on Wikipedia or just google the two terms.

    PS, I am NOT slinky.
    T mobile is not TDMA. It's GSM. I know cuz I was employee 25 at what is now Tmobile and helped build the network. I helped buy the gear from Nokia, Ericy , Nortel etc. GSM is a european standard. It's not an american one. We just chose it in the United States because the handset subsidies were a lot cheaper than CDMA and we didn't like Qcom. Bell South --also is GSM- NOT TDMA. Pac Bell the western part of the US- Chose GSM. The biggest user of TDMA was ATT which was purchased by ATT.
    P
  14.    #314  
    Here is some info about GSM and TDMA..

    (quoted from wirelessadvisor.com I am on my treo so forgive me for not giving the URL.. I am sure you can google it if you need by copying a sentence and pasting into google.)

    GSM is the international standard. It is used in over 184 countries. GSM works by chopping up a conversation into timed bursts and seperates callers by time index and frequency (these are refered to as FDMA - frequency division multiple access - and TDMA - time division multiple access). Although its method of seperating calls is the same as that of TDMA, these are very different technologies. GSM currently uses 2 different codecs for encoding calls: EFR (enhances full rate) and AMR (advanced multi rate). These codecs were developed from the ISDN landline standard and offer very high call quality.

    TDMA is more accurately refered to as D-AMPS because that is what it is: digital analog. TDMA takes the old analog system and puts a bandaid on it by converting the signal to digital and adding a time division to it (analog is only divided by frequency). It is not much more advanced than that and is the only system that can handoff from digital to analog.
  15.    #315  
    GSM is an international standard, not european.
  16. #316  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    Here is some info about GSM and TDMA..

    (quoted from wirelessadvisor.com I am on my treo so forgive me for not giving the URL.. I am sure you can google it if you need by copying a sentence and pasting into google.)

    GSM is the international standard. It is used in over 184 countries. GSM works by chopping up a conversation into timed bursts and seperates callers by time index and frequency (these are refered to as FDMA - frequency division multiple access - and TDMA - time division multiple access). Although its method of seperating calls is the same as that of TDMA, these are very different technologies. GSM currently uses 2 different codecs for encoding calls: EFR (enhances full rate) and AMR (advanced multi rate). These codecs were developed from the ISDN landline standard and offer very high call quality.

    TDMA is more accurately refered to as D-AMPS because that is what it is: digital analog. TDMA takes the old analog system and puts a bandaid on it by converting the signal to digital and adding a time division to it (analog is only divided by frequency). It is not much more advanced than that and is the only system that can handoff from digital to analog.
    First of all--whoever wrote that can't spell. Second, GSM was developed as a Standard in Europe. Carriers there could not select which technology they could use they had to pick GSM. That's why the handset subsidies were so lo because the euros already had the handsets. We paid 200 bucks per handset 10 or so years ago in subsidies..CMDA was much worse and we didn't want to put our cash into that. TDMA--as far as I was told (and I don't care to look it up) was developed by ATT off of GSM technology. A lot of the patents overlap which is why when you bought TDMA stuff you ended up paying the europeans even though lucent made a lot of that gear.
  17. #317  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    GSM is an international standard, not european.
    No.

    At a very young age I learned not to assume I know something when I really didn't. Europe is where the standard was set and developed. The patents are held by Ericsson and Nokia and it was first deployed in the EU and set by the European Union as the only wireless technology that could be deployed in the European Union. It's not a standard in the US. The FCC decided to allow any wireless standard to be used in the US. It turned out to be a horrible error. It's used by some carriers but it's not a government required standard like it is in Europe.
  18.    #318  
    Like I said, I quoted it.
    The reason why europe is locked into GSM is because the EU decided to make it the only digital wireless phone standard for interoperability across the continent.

    I you read my post (you don't have to look it up), TDMA was a bandaid digital patch placed on top of AMPS mainly to stop the whole cloning nightmare and eavesdropping that was going on in the mid 90s with analog networks.
  19. #319  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    Like I said, I quoted it.
    The reason why europe is locked into GSM is because the EU decided to make it the only digital wireless phone standard for interoperability across the continent.

    I you read my post (you don't have to look it up), TDMA was a bandaid digital patch placed on top of AMPS mainly to stop the whole cloning nightmare and eavesdropping that was going on in the mid 90s with analog networks.

    Once again you and the article you quoted in Wiki are incorrect. It's not an international standard its a european one. I don't need to reread what you quoted. Why don't you reread it since it says it in your own post.

    If it troubles your brain so much I'll go into Wikipedia and remove the word International standard and replace it with the word European so it's accurate.
  20. #320  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    Like I said, I quoted it.

    I you read my post (you don't have to look it up), TDMA was a bandaid digital patch placed on top of AMPS mainly to stop the whole cloning nightmare and eavesdropping that was going on in the mid 90s with analog networks.

    Here is the text to TDMA which I looked up for you.

    Most 2G cellular systems, with the notable exception of IS-95, are based around TDMA. GSM, D-AMPS, PDC, and PHS are examples of TDMA cellular systems. GSM combines TDMA with Frequency Hopping and wideband transmission to reduce interference, this minimizes common types of interference.

    IS-95 is another name for CMDA jsut so you know and your wiki entry distinguishes it from TDMA and GSM (which use similar techniques). and while it has D-amps in there it's only because D-amps uses time to separate channels. GSM uses that technique also to create channels as does almost every technology except cdma which uses unique codes of very long numbers to identify handsets to the Base Station.

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