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  1. airibis's Avatar
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    #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    Obviously a physical keyboard is preferred, but if you have to go the virtual route, then Tengo is pretty good.

    To me, the form factor of the Touch makes the Treo feel like a chunky monkey.

    There are always trade offs....it just depends what you place more importance on.
    maybe, but then again can a device ever be too thin?

    I myself have large hands, and wrapping them around a Touch for a bit of time can be quite uncomfortable.


    then again, it would take up less pocket space; hm
  2. #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    I think Palm just cannot move fast enough or efficiently enough to compete with HTC and others with the PDA style devices. Nothing fundamentally wrong with the Palm OS for very basic use - I still have my original Palm Pilot and a Palm V that work - but that is like deciding OS/2 is the better OS to run my PC on. For certain apps / uses, it's fine....but it is not today. I think as an organization, Palm has to make a real impression in a short time frame (1Q08) otherwise it will be toast. I'm very pessimistic that they can turn things around.
    How can you say this about HTC and Verizon--you just got the xv6800 after the first leaked images of the Verizon branded 6800 came almost 1 year ago? HTC may be fast (sometimes too fast, like when they don't put enough RAM in the 6800 or the 1st gen Touch) but Verizon is slow as heck releasing PDA devices.

    And of course Palm OS is dated--yet I've been running the Centro for 40 days now and it's still quite competitive compared to WM devices on many functions (at least it wakes for alarms and phone calls ) and it certainly kills the iPhone and BB for smartphone applications and functions.

    The "Palm will be toast" line has been predicted for years now, so I'm not quite as confident as you in that regard
    -----------------------------------------
    Re: Touch

    Yeah I can't give up a KB for the sleekness and Palm can't do that with the Treo and still call it a Treo. Plus I'll take a 320x320 over 320x240 when given as a choice. But that's fine: Sprint has the Touch for those who want it and a Treo for those who prefer that--no need for Palm to copy HTC who copied the iPhone (lol).

    I think Sprint has a great lineup for WM devices, ranging the spectrum: Mogul, Touch, Treo and Q9c for smartphone. All pretty solid devices.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/01/2007 at 02:03 PM.

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  3. #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by airibis View Post
    ^^;; i tried it all, nothing seems to match up to the accessibility of a tangible keyboard.

    I would love to see a full screen phone with a vertical sliding keyboard....


    ^^;; if it comes to it, I will look into modding and creating my own new device once sprint accepts unlocked phones from other networks.
    Do you know how to make keyboards?

    I've seen there's a new bluetooth credit card sized keyboard due out from freedom input in 2008, but I'd still rather have something that actually attaches to my touch. Something that could snap into the bottom, perhaps by clicking into the handstrap groove and plugged in via the mini usb port.

    I know this thread isn't for touch discussion. I too am curious about the 800w and keep up on it like the rest of ya. Just got excited when I read the post above!
  4. airibis's Avatar
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    #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by ydounvme21 View Post
    Do you know how to make keyboards?

    I've seen there's a new bluetooth credit card sized keyboard due out from freedom input in 2008, but I'd still rather have something that actually attaches to my touch. Something that could snap into the bottom, perhaps by clicking into the handstrap groove and plugged in via the mini usb port.

    I know this thread isn't for touch discussion. I too am curious about the 800w and keep up on it like the rest of ya. Just got excited when I read the post above!
    Thats a brilliant idea


    ^^;; never made a keyboard before, but something to look into.
  5. #285  
    I would buy one!

    I'd be able to use the threaded sms again. The virtual keyboard blocks the input screen so I think it'd be something a lot of people would want just for that feature alone.
  6. #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by robdam View Post
    I left my WX for an i760. I do not regret my decision. I keep checking back to see if when/if any new WM Treo will be availble on VZW however.

    robdam,
    sent you a PM
  7. #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    How can you say this about HTC and Verizon--you just got the xv6800 after the first leaked images of the Verizon branded 6800 came almost 1 year ago? HTC may be fast (sometimes too fast, like when they don't put enough RAM in the 6800 or the 1st gen Touch) but Verizon is slow as heck releasing PDA devices.
    I will not dispute the fact that as a carrier, Verizon does not do a good job regarding PDA devices....if I had no motive to stay with Verizon (given the number of friends and family on the network), I would have jumped to the Tilt on AT&T. But, Verizon's poor record has nothing to do with the fact that Palm got passed by a number of other manufacturers.....and doesn't seem like it will catch up anytime soon.

    I've got my 6800 configured and loaded with software. Right now, WMDC is xferring about 1.2GB of music, 2 audiobooks, and 3 movies onto the storage card. I've got 140MB of free internal storage, should have about 300-400MB free space on my msd card (room for a few backups), and have about 15MB more program memory free right now than my Treo 700W did with a similar load. (HTC isn't the only company that skimps on RAM - the 700W was nearly crippled by it) By my usage measure - that's a success....as it applies to me.

    The only thing I miss at this point is no active internal GPS (perhaps Verizon will follow Sprint's lead - but I won't hold my breathe) and it's harder to work one handed if I need to reply to messages. It's a nice (for me) step up from my 700W. We'll see if I feel the same in a couple of weeks.

    And of course Palm OS is dated--yet I've been running the Centro for 40 days now and it's still quite competitive compared to WM devices on many functions (at least it wakes for alarms and phone calls ) and it certainly kills the iPhone and BB for smartphone applications and functions.
    Your emotion and effort to defend Palm - particularly around the Centro (only on Sprint) - is commendable. For you, perhaps Centro is the perfect form factor and device. But, on the other hand, it doesn't meet my needs in terms of key features or network. "Certainly kills the ....." is fine hyperbole - and fits your opinion - but I don't see very much more progress in the Palm OS than where it was when I got rid of my Treo 600. At least with the Centro, one is getting a device that is more accurately a reflection of the value than with the $299 or $399 prices.....but on that basis, my $149 net MIR and discounts 6800 gives me what I need....and try as it might, the Centro doesn't.

    The thing about 'Palm will be toast' is - there are still many more like me who are leaving Palm after using their hardware and software for years than it appears are leaving other devices and heading to Palm. At some point, the numbers catch up regardless of the loyalty of the remaining fans.

    I don't think they have a magic bullet either. They will always be a company that can innovate the heck out of 1.0 or maybe even 2.0 of a new trend - but get passed by 3.0 and left in the dust at 4.0.

    I think Sprint has a great lineup for WM devices, ranging the spectrum: Mogul, Touch, Treo and Q9c for smartphone. All pretty solid devices.
    No, I have no issue with Sprint's lineup vs. Verizon's. The challenge is - I only need about 400 minutes a month since 50% of my calls are 'in' calls, and Sprint's signal at my house and around the hills here -is far worse than Verizon's. So, when the network isn't an advantage - Sprint's lineup becomes a non-factor. Just as BB and the iPhone don't meet my needs.
  8. #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    But, Verizon's poor record has nothing to do with the fact that Palm got passed by a number of other manufacturers.....and doesn't seem like it will catch up anytime soon.
    Palm has about 2,000 employees. It will never be able to out-do companies like HTC, which was originally an OEM for everyone else, nor will they out do Samsung, Nokia, Motorola, etc. Those latter companies are huge (Moto is rolling out 37 GSM cell phones next year), so I really don't expect Palm to "out do them" especially if we are just talking about rolling out other iterations of WM devices. How could they? There is rarely ever 1 killer WM device. Even if there is, that title has a shelf life of 6 months these days.

    If Palm ever comes out with a new, competitive and unique mobile OS, then it may be able to out-do some other companies, but even then...WM markets are different from what they want to go after.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    and have about 15MB more program memory free right now than my Treo 700W did with a similar load. (HTC isn't the only company that skimps on RAM - the 700W was nearly crippled by it)
    Palm really screwed up on the 700w--no argument there. It was their first WM device, they were looking to keep costs down and they err'd. HTC though has much more experience in making WM devices--to have devices in 2007 with still too little RAM after all their experience is a bit harder to forgive.

    One further note about the 6800: If you need that device for what it is meant, then there is no way a Centro or any Palm OS device could be an option to consider. I have always maintained that a 6800 has a specific audience. Problem is, many buy the device because of the allure of all that power, yet find it is overkill when all they do is talk on the phone and SMS to friends. But lets be clear: Centro & 6800--very different audiences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    Your emotion and effort to defend Palm - particularly around the Centro (only on Sprint) - is commendable.
    Out of curiosity, could your explain what you actually mean by "emotion and effort to defend Palm"?

    Because frankly, they are just a company that makes phones--I don't care if they stay in business or not. I have no loyalty to them and when I buy devices like the 6700 or Moto Q, I think it attests to that.

    But if you have a better example of how I invest emotion into this, I'm all ears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    For you, perhaps Centro is the perfect form factor and device. But, on the other hand, it doesn't meet my needs in terms of key features or network....
    Understand, I wasn't trying to sell you on a Centro or PamOS. Rather I was replying to your statement about the OS being old and outdated, which I agreed with. I went further though and mentioned how their OS still can do a lot that WM can do and more, in terms of smartphone features, than a BlackBerry or an iPhone. I don't really consider that hyperbole either--iPhones can't do 3rd party (yet), nor 3g, cut n paste, etc. and BlackBerries have a lot less 3rd party programs as well. It doesn't mean they are bad devices (the iPhone is probably the best iPod + phone), just that Palm OS is still quite resilient. The fact I can do HTML push email, watch Slingbox, do VOIP, IM, stream video and radio, etc. on such an old OS in a $99 device is quite impressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    The thing about 'Palm will be toast' is - there are still many more like me who are leaving Palm after using their hardware and software for years than it appears are leaving other devices and heading to Palm. At some point, the numbers catch up regardless of the loyalty of the remaining fans.
    Smartphones are just starting to become mainstream. There are many more varieties today than last week and 3 years ago. The market will continue to grow and yet diversify greatly in the coming years. Palm has no "new" OS and is adding to the huge pool of WM devices. All of this is expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    I don't think they have a magic bullet either. They will always be a company that can innovate the heck out of 1.0 or maybe even 2.0 of a new trend - but get passed by 3.0 and left in the dust at 4.0.
    Who knows, who cares. We'll see if and when they release something new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    No, I have no issue with Sprint's lineup vs. Verizon's. The challenge is - I only need about 400 minutes a month since 50% of my calls are 'in' calls, and Sprint's signal at my house and around the hills here -is far worse than Verizon's. So, when the network isn't an advantage - Sprint's lineup becomes a non-factor. Just as BB and the iPhone don't meet my needs.
    Understand, the part under the dotted line in my post was directed at the general audience in this thread, going back to the actual topic: the 800w, specifically how making it "Touch like" would not be a good idea.

    It was an attempt to get back on track not engage in a debate about Sprint vs. Verizon, which was just a side observation on my part.

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  9. #289  
    Originally, when news leaked of WM 6.1, dates were floating around for a Q1 2008 release date to OEMs.

    This date then translates into Q2 (May 2008) for actual release on a device due to hardware and network testing/bug reports and fixing.

    Now, with the BGR report of the new Moto Q q9 with WM 6.1 already on board--what does this mean--specifically for the 800w? It seems obvious that 6.1 is further than we thought and already in some OEM hands.

    It certainly caught me by surprise as I was not expecting any news till at least January on this OS release.

    Should we hope/speculate that the upcoming 800w will have 6.1 on it? Is this one of the reasons for its delay? Or what about the 1st post of this thread, which has the OP observing:
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    One thing I liked was the time bounced around the screen when the backlight was off so those of you that don't wear a watch can glance at the time.
    Is that one of these new 6.1 features or a Palm invention (assuming it is real, of course).

    Personally, I think it makes sense that it will have it on board--even if it meant delaying it by a few months. Palm needs a big "wow" device, they have a strong relationship with Sprint tending to release devices there 1st, and they seem to have a close working relationship with MS, developing features behind the scenes (like 320x320).

    Thoughts (especially from our "insiders")?

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  10. #290  
    When is the exact date that VZW will begin allowing handsets from other networks? I would be very interested in picking one of these up for Sprint then porting it over immediately.
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  11. #291  
    Tre-i-e-i-o:

    Not till end of 2008 IRC. Even then, it is not clear what restrictions there may or may not be. Either way, as you figured out, Verizon will probably have its own 800w waaay before then ;-)

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  12. #292  
    Hmmm interesting point Mal, but most of what BGR posted about WM 6.1 seems to be geared towards standard instead of professional. So unless Microsoft plans on releasing a separate 6.1 update for WM pro I don't think it matters much regarding the 800w. I say screw WM 6.1 and just give me the 800w with plain ol WM 6 already lol .
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ...Verizon will probably have its own 800w waaay before then ;-)
    Haha...call me crazy but it doesn't exactly look like you're ready to be put on the record with that quote!
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
    Former Treo owner (iPhone 3G baby!)
  14. #294  
    800w and Verizon should not even be mentioned in the same sentence. Verizon don't even have the 755p yet.

    ET
  15. #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Originally, when news leaked of WM 6.1, dates were floating around for a Q1 2008 release date to OEMs.
    I was just at a MS TechNet event where the new features of Exchange Server 2007 SP1 were being reviewed. Several smart phone management features such as disabling the camera, bluetooth, removable storage, etc while on-site were going to be supported in WM 6.1. The speaker said the product had not been RTMed so I don't think any manufacturers actually have it in hand. There are some beta/RC testers I'm sure but nothing officially distributed. It was stated to be released to manufacturers next month most likely. Any additional "cool" features were not talked about. It appeared to be almost entirely geared toward network admins like me in managing devices on the corporate network. That being said, not having 6.1 on my device is certainly not a dealbreaker.
  16. jas o's Avatar
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    #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tre-i-e-i-o View Post
    When is the exact date that VZW will begin allowing handsets from other networks? I would be very interested in picking one of these up for Sprint then porting it over immediately.
    My question about the new open Verizon Network sharing is how far off in the future is Verizons switch to 4G and switching to LTE. If I am reading this correctly Verizon will be switching to GSM(???) which means SIM cards. Is this what they are referring to as an open network (the real reason they are opening up) or is it something completely different?
  17. #297  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluesk1d View Post
    I was just at a MS TechNet event where the new features of Exchange Server 2007 SP1 were being reviewed. Several smart phone management features such as disabling the camera, bluetooth, removable storage, etc while on-site were going to be supported in WM 6.1. The speaker said the product had not been RTMed so I don't think any manufacturers actually have it in hand. There are some beta/RC testers I'm sure but nothing officially distributed. It was stated to be released to manufacturers next month most likely. Any additional "cool" features were not talked about. It appeared to be almost entirely geared toward network admins like me in managing devices on the corporate network. That being said, not having 6.1 on my device is certainly not a dealbreaker.
    Certainly interesting information. The Treo 750 is getting that upgrade in the Spring, which means if it's part of 6.1 then the 750 is getting 6.1 as well.

    As far as "cool" features and RTM, it sort of misses the point of what I linked to in my post, which was that this new upcoming Motorola Q9 phone already has 6.1 on it. So it appears that at least Moto has it in their hands, or copies are floating around to OEMs already. Palm tends to get in early on these things, which is why I raised the possibility that maybe the 800w may have it.

    The cool factors are there too. The new homescreen with side scrolling and threaded SMS for the smartphone I would think are pretty nice improvements as well as a bunch of other things, which can all be seen here:

    BGR WM 6.1 Gallery


    So the big (rhetorical) question is: what changes (if any) are there to the Today screen in WM Professional? I would assume it also had threaded SMS built in now as well as some other UI enhancements...

    Here are the changes noted in the Smartphone version of 6.1:
    • Task Manager now shows CPU usage as a whole, and also lists it by process
    • Internet Explorer offers 6 zoom modes and copy / paste functionality
    • IE also uses a new font, which looks worlds better
    • ActiveSync will now try to automatically configure your Exchange settings once you enter an email address
    • Wi-Fi indicator in the status bar, just as in Windows Mobile Professional
    • Copy / Paste (finally!)
    • Domain Enroll in Settings (Enrolling in a domain will connect your device with company resources.)
    • New home screen (pan left and right to check out missed calls, notifications like email, sms, etc.)
    • Change Master Security Code
    • Added text input settings
    • Recent Programs when pressing Start menu
    • Threaded SMS!
    • When you compose an email, or SMS, and start typing the name of the contact in the "To:" field, the contact names finally pop up like Windows Mobile Professional!
    • Internet Explorer now lets you define a homepage, and also zoom in and out using a nice and clean interface
    • New "Vista" home screen and theme
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/06/2007 at 02:57 PM.

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  18. #298  
    Right now they are saying 4G/LTE no earlier than 4Q2009-1Q2010
    OH-IO!!!
    Current Record: 1-2 in BCS Championships Current Rank: #5
    Next Game: 8/30 - Youngstown State

    Formerly "Tre-i-e-i-o"
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  19. jas o's Avatar
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    #299  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tre-i-e-i-o View Post
    Right now they are saying 4G/LTE no earlier than 4Q2009-1Q2010
    Am I right in that this is a change to GSM?? How would they make the transition? Maintain two systems for several years and then pull the plug on the cdma? All new phones would be GSM and just slowly phase out the cdma?
  20. jbinbi's Avatar
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    #300  
    Verizon's comment was that it would be open for phones that have compatable radios. These are CDMA phones. VZW is not going to change to GSM. All of their infrastructure, billions of $ are built around CDMA. Dual band phones such as their new (ne old now) Blacberry world phone has both cdma and gsm. However a gsm phone will not work alone.

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