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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    That assumes two things though right?
    1) That sprint doesn't want an updated phone to compete with the iphone. A lot of the features I am asking for would make the treo a lot more competive with the iphone. Why would sprint want to prevent that?
    2) Even if it's all sprints fault. You guys assume Sprint is the only carrier that carriers Palm devices. T-mobile, Verizon, and ATT can carry treos also.
    It's no so much assumption as just fact. It was nearly 2 years between the 6700 and 6800 and I think we can all agree that the Kaiser is much nicer than the 6800, yet Sprint got that and so did Verizon. Speaking of, Verizon (who still hasn't launched the Mogul) was testing it back in December '07.

    Sprint knows the secret to beating the iPhone will be their Wimax network, which will be open to any device that can use Wimax (there is talk of free access, but limited bandwidth to 364kb speeds; then a pay model with higher speeds). Think cameras, UMPCs, tablet devices, phones, smartphones, laptops, etc. (I also do not think a Treo would compete with the iPhone: one is enterprise, the other is media)

    Sprint is there #1 customer and probably get some exclusives (while they lost the 700w one, they got the better 700wx for awhile). Cinealta posted their numbers:

    Sprint = 24%
    Verizon = 18%
    AT&T/Cingular = 14%
    Ingram Micro = 6% (Ingram is a wholesale distributor)

    I am not saying that Palm couldn't do better: they could, especially on GSM. But currently that is not their first priority. The international market was really just bridged with the 750.

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  2. #42  
    I know you are a wimax expert and all--but don't you think that makes you a tad bit biased relative to its importance to the Treo 800 issues.

    If Palm waits for Wimax to be out for the 800, they deserve to go bankrupt. Seriously. People want devices NOW. Sprint has the best data network today and with Wimax-it has the best network in the future for data. But who cares if you have crappy devices today.
    If Palm keeps losing share to HTC, apple and Rim, -it isn't going to matter what Sprint wants since Palm will be out of business or bought out at a fraction of the current already meager value.
    Again. Wimax man. Wow. Like. just wow. If I find out palm is waiting on wimax
  3. #43  
    oh and sprint used to have 100% of the palm market. now its just one of 3 major us customers. Verizon would be more than delighted to take a non wimax palm to challenge the iphone.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    I know you are a wimax expert and all--but don't you think that makes you a tad bit biased relative to its importance to the Treo 800 issues.
    Probably.

    I'm not even confident in saying the 800w will have Wimax, just that it may be a possibility.

    My main point is that Palm really is not the one who calls the shots here but it's the carriers. I disagree with this model as I believe the carriers should be more like ISPs (GSM is close to this, but you still have the lock/unlocked thing).

    The fact is, the CDMA market has the fastest and cheapest network, yet are always about 1 to 2 generations behind in technology. Name me one CDMA phone that is cutting edge. That new Moto Q on Verizon is barely and upgrade.

    It's the business model that should be vilified, not so much Palm HTC or any OEM. This is what made Apple special: they bullied the hell out of Verizon (who said no) and AT&T (who said yes) and they got 100% control over the device design, specifications, branding, services (none besides Apples), selling, etc. It worked for them but I bet these carriers will not allow that model to go forward, since it's all about them loosing control, and in turn, revenue from their dumb services e.g. Music store, V-Cast, etc.

    Who knows, maybe even with an open model Palm would still be behind. But without that in place it's very hard to say. If you ever speak to these companies, they don't speak highly of working with Sprint, Verizon, etc.

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  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ...This is what made Apple special: they bullied the hell out of Verizon (who said no) and AT&T (who said yes) and they got 100% control over the device design, specifications, branding, services (none besides Apples), selling, etc.
    Good point. Reportedly, Apple also gets 10% of the voice/data plan income (for iPhones).
  6. #46  
    The business model is bad but people like Apple and google will change that.

    As far as CDMA technologies that are innovation. The HTC mogul -for about a month was leading edge. GSM tends to have a more open architecture because of simm cards and europe is GSM. What GSM phones are so bleeding edge other than the iphone? The new HTC Kaiser? i admit that's a nice one. It has GPS which would make me happy.

    While I think carrier pushback is a factor, I think its an argument mostly used by Palm apologists. If it's gotten to the point where they can't innovate because carriers won't let them put out new phones, they should return the cash to shareholders and exit the business.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    The business model is bad but people like Apple and google will change that.

    As far as CDMA technologies that are innovation. The HTC mogul -for about a month was leading edge. GSM tends to have a more open architecture because of simm cards and europe is GSM. What GSM phones are so bleeding edge other than the iphone? The new HTC Kaiser? i admit that's a nice one. It has GPS which would make me happy.

    While I think carrier pushback is a factor, I think its an argument mostly used by Palm apologists. If it's gotten to the point where they can't innovate because carriers won't let them put out new phones, they should return the cash to shareholders and exit the business.
    The model could be changed though. The GSM/SIM thing is one excuse but no talks about the dirty secret: CDMA SIM cards. They exists, they work, they uninterpretable with GSM too. Google --> R-UIM.

    As far as innovation, Palm actually doesn't too bad. They sold 750,000 Treos in the last quarter, which is not bad for a company of about 1,200. They do better than Motorola who can't turn a profit in the business.

    It's not so much "palm apologists" as I think the same arguments can be made about Motorola (the billionth iteration of the RAZR?), HTC (6800 is quite outdated and has low memory), Samsung (only the Blackjack is relevant). Symbian is barely here in the U.S., I don't know why. There just isn't much choice.

    This all comes down to this: if you don't like Palm, buy something else. If you own stock in Palm or Sprint, pull it.

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  8. #48  
    What do you mean CDMA have Simm cards.

    I don't think the 6800 was out dated. it did have kinda low memory though and really low battery life imo. Rimm, HTC, Apple, Samsung and Motorola are all providing good substributes. The Nokia N95 is killer. I guess you are just saying people will go to all these competitors, i'm saying it's a shame as palm used to 100% of this market. My point is it will be zero soon if it doesn't do something fast. And it's not the carriers fault..it's up to Palm to change the rules just like Apple did.

    Right now I am looking at the new Kaiser or maybe going back to the blackberry. Especially one with gps in it.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Probably.

    I'm not even confident in saying the 800w will have Wimax, just that it may be a possibility.
    I doubt that the 800w will have wimax since there were rumors that it would be released for VZW this month(never panned out), and VZW does not have any WiMax plans announced. Unless they plan to surprise us or Palm gives us two versions one with WiMax for spirnt and another with WiFi for VZW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The fact is, the CDMA market has the fastest and cheapest network, yet are always about 1 to 2 generations behind in technology. Name me one CDMA phone that is cutting edge. That new Moto Q on Verizon is barely and upgrade.
    If you count the Moto Razr2 Sprint has it out a few weeks before the others do, granted the CDMA versions get the lower color internal screen while rest of the features are the same. There is Perl2 if you count that. VZW is getting it first, unless the version of the Perl they are getting is not the Perl2, but Perl1.5? You could also say the 700w and 700wx, but that was not to cutting edge. But, yeah CDMA gets the last of everything.

    Personally I am holding out for a device, that is the same form factor as the Treo 700 series, Moto Q, or Samsung Blackjack, but comes with WiFi and is WM6 on a CDMA carrier. The HTC Iris or what ever the new Treo with wifi is maybe the device for me. Then again my friend just got the BB Curve and that looks pretty tempting specially when it comes out with WiFi.
    Last edited by bloodycape77; 08/22/2007 at 08:28 PM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodycape77 View Post
    I doubt that the 800w will have wimax since there were rumors that it would be released for VZW this month(never panned out), and VZW does not have any WiMax plans announced. Unless they plan to surprise us or Palm gives us two versions one with WiMax for spirnt and another with WiFi for VZW?
    Funny you say that.

    It's very possible to do this. If you follow the Intel chip news, they demonstrated a Wimax/Wifi dual chip in 2006. In fact, it seems that most embedded chip developers for Wimax (Intel, TeleCIS Wireless, NextWave, probably Motorola, Samsung) are opting to make these chips dual nature, since it keeps production costs down and allows simple transitions between those two networks.

    So Palm (Samsung, Motorola) could all makes these devices that have both on the chip, but just Wifi enabled.

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  11. #51  
    Well that is some interesting news. I wonder if you get a device like that, but for VZW you think it is possible to unlock the WiMax feature and use it on a WiMax network with out an issue? Hmmm
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodycape77 View Post
    Well that is some interesting news. I wonder if you get a device like that, but for VZW you think it is possible to unlock the WiMax feature and use it on a WiMax network with out an issue? Hmmm
    Bingo. Very possible since the Sprint system is open to any wimax device.

    But, alas, we're heading down the road of speculation!

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  13. #53  
    Wow...you just won't stop talking about Wimax.
    Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.
    Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.
  14. #54  
    umm--it may HAVE WiMax (XHOM) in it.... so he's not pushing it on us, he's merely speculating that it will come out around the time that Sprint lights its WiMax network up...



    when the heck did TC become so much like HoFo with all the criticism that goes on in a SPECULATIVE thread anyway??
    ...This ain't a phone or a PDA, It's a way of life!
    for all your multimedia needs, it's gotta be Starrwulfe Ltd!
  15. #55  
    He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Look at his sig-he's got money in it.
    WM (windows mobile) isn't the only OS that can take advantage of WiMax.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.
    Since when did this turn into a personal attack? Way to bring this thread down.

    If you don't like my posts, don't read them. You are not forced to read nor respond and yet you do. And have money in it? I own no stock, I sit on no boards, I don't work for Sprint and I don't develop software or hardware. I'm a grad student working in linguistics, if you must know.

    What has that to do with anything?

    Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.
    Flag down a moderator, otherwise mind your business.

    Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.
    Umm...read post #2 and then the link I provide in post #7 to the Engadget story saying that Palm was working on a ultra-thin Treo with Wimax. It is quite relevant.

    Every thread in "Future Treos" is speculating. That's the point. I've been very clear that 's what I'm doing.

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  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Wow...you just won't stop talking about Wimax.
    Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.
    Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.
    Obviously you don't read many of the posts he has done here and at numerous other forums. He is one of top 5 people I would trust for help out of all the forums I visit. His contributions and help are very well known, so get your facts straight before you start attacking someone like him.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  19. #59  
    Please check out Mal's track record before you attack him. I believe in what he "speculates".
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
    Look at his sig...
    I have and can't see anything remotely connected to WiMax in it, there's links to two Windows Mobile related sites if that's what you're referring to

    He's one of a small number of people on here who understand the concept of constructive criticism, so I for one appreciate what he has so to say.
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