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  1.    #1  



    Covering Macworld yesterday the only big iPhone news was a minor feature update - we still get to look down upon its lack of 3G and the fact that it's handcuffed to AT&T like a clicé sitcom episode where the two adversaries become best friends *forever* after 23 minutes (plus commercials) of being chained together.

    *Ahem*. There is one new iPhone feature that we need to tell Microsoft about, but fixing the same problem on Windows Mobile turns out to be a very thorny issue. Read on for much more on this after the break!


    Read more at http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ed...osofts_ha.html
  2. ajwalker's Avatar
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    #2  
    If your looking for something close to Spb Mobile Shell, you should definately try Facade (I did a mini-review on Morning Paper here)

    But I sure wish Microsoft would grow some and get us updates themselves. It doesn't have to break the agreement. It could (and should) be done just like on the PC side.

    Microsoft releases upgrades/ fixes once - twice a month to XP and Vista on a range of desktops with a range of components, usage scenarios and price points so why can't it be the same within the mobile arena?

    I'm sure, back in the day when everyone was beholden to the carriers you had to dance to their tune. But Apple has shown you can have a whole new band, playing just your song but I don't see anyone else looking to create a similar deal. Granted, I doubt the manufacturers could get much more out of the carriers, but Microsoft could and should. They have that kind of clout. Especially since I never hear about RIM having problems getting their devices updated on their schedule.

    I'm just sayin'
  3. #3  
    I dont know if you noticed, but the UI of the iPhone and WM phones are different. The iPhone uses a flat Palm-like launcher, now with multiple pages (which means you can forget where you left you app potentially).

    WM (professional) uses the start menu. You can easily specify which 7 apps you want there, and you have 5 more slots which are filled with your OTHER most recently used apps. Thats 12 of your apps available with a simple UI. How many apps do you use every day?

    Why people hate on the Start menu I dont really know, but it works rather well.

    Again, just because the iPhone does something some way does not make it the best way, and I think the UI was never meant to be extended the way it is, and is in fact slowly falling apart usability-wise.

    Surur
  4. #4  
    Actually, I hate on the start menu because it's a terrible "2 feet from your face while walking" interface. The items are way too small (HTC's big start menu helps) and it's impossible to "thumb" it one-handed (although you can resort to the 5-way).

    I hate on the start menu because although I'm not in-principle against having multiple ways to launch programs, i think the Start Menu is a poor implementation of that. My gripe about how items in the start menu disappear off the programs list is exhibit A of what's wrong with it.
  5. #5  
    agreed, the "start menu" is something thankfully I never have to go near again after installing SPB Mobile Shell...as I always do on any win mob device. The fact you are limited to 7 apps is annoying too.
  6. #6  
    For apps you want to use from 2 feet way (which ones?)most WM phone have what we call buttons.

    It seems since the iPhone most people are forgetting the push WM made towards one-handed usage the last 2 years. For example on devices with exposed keyboards you can start an app by pressing start>(shortcut key).

    Do people really believe touching the screen is the fastest and most efficient way to do things?

    Surur
  7. jcjdoss's Avatar
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    #7  
    Not to start a flame war here, but this is why I moved over to an iPhone. It was not the iPhone's superiority, but Microsoft's lack of updates to current models. Anyone who has waited for a firmware upgrade, even a promised one, knows how frustrating it is. I waited 6 months longer for my wm6 upgrade for my Blackjack than what was promised. Remember Xbox Anywhere, an interface for your mobile phone for your Xbox 360. I can't imagine why they announced it just to keep us in the dark to this point.

    To simplify my frustration, Microsoft is a software company, Apple is a hardware company, yet the Hardware company is putting out software updates for their hardware, adding functionality, bug fixes, integrating third party apps with support, (Google Maps, You Tube) We'll see how installed third party apps go in February. So far Apple has given me the support I needed from Microsoft.

    And to Surur...Yes, if done right
  8. #8  
    @surur:

    No sir! I've been using the iPhone here at Macworld and I dearly miss a physical keyboard. I am walking pretty much everywhere and it's pretty much a 20 minutes walk from my hotel to the convention hall. Typing on the iPhone while walking is very difficult for me, and even if I got back into practice with it I don't think it would ever be as good as a physical keyboard.

    But in that same walking situation, unless I have plenty of keyboard shortcuts memorized, a half-inch square icon is much easier to hit than the tiny bit we get on the start menu. Yes, there are buttons, and you could hit Start, down down down down, enter to do something on the start menu, but it's still not ideal.

    Of course I'm not arguing that the iPhone's UI is the best evar, just that the Start Menu is a desktop metaphor that doesn't belong on a mobile device.
  9. #9  
    I'm with Surur. I hate touch tech as the sole entry method. One-handed usage was a long time coming and I'm not ready to toss it now that it's here.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcjdoss View Post
    Not to start a flame war here, but this is why I moved over to an iPhone. It was not the iPhone's superiority, but Microsoft's lack of updates to current models.
    Actually, if you follow the AKU builds of WM, you'll see MS actually updates quite a bit (Note: WM6 has been updated six times already).

    But the problem is this (as Dieter alluded to): the OEM/Device maker has to request the new build and "customize it" to their device and carrier specifications, all of which is not a free undertaking. So there is money involved.

    Furthermore, carriers are very strict, especially CDMA. If the new update touches the radio, it has to go threw literally months of testing to get certified. Less so if it doesn't, but teasing those apart is not always clear. The carriers also want "bug fixes" but to have those bugs fixed and a new OS build, costs the carriers money since they have to contract it out to the OEM.

    To the end-user, having that extra shortcut in Outlook Mobile to switch folders might be essential and worth getting a newer OS build for, but to the carriers, they just see $$$ leaving and nothing coming back.

    The only "real" solution is the most unlikely: carriers have to become "dumb pipes" for data and voice, leaving the device hardware/software end to private companies who deal directly. That means also surrendering those silly, yet lucrative, "services" that they offer (like Sprint Music store).

    Just think of your current desktop computer: do you need permission from AOL, Cabelvision, Cox, etc. to change or modify the OS/hardware? No. Do you also get a subsidy when buying that computer? No. All trade-offs , hence why you pay basically full-price for an iPhone w/contract yet the Centro is a measly $99.

    Re: Start Menu

    I still hate the Start Menu too as Dieter noted: it's fine for a desktop, but poor for a Mobile device. I don't necessarily want "Touch" either as I don't like touch-input at all, but something like MobileShell is at least one way of doing it right, imo.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    List (partial) of WM AKU releases

    Windows Mobile 6
    AKU Release Build
    0 15342
    0.2 17740
    0.2.1 17741
    0.2.2 17742
    0.2.4 17746
    0.3.1 17944
    0.4.2 18125


    Windows Mobile 5.0
    AKU Release Build
    0 14343
    0.1 14352
    0.1.1 14354
    0.1.2 14355
    0.2 14359
    1.0 14363
    1.0.1 14366
    1.0.2 14367
    1.1 14402
    1.1.1 14406
    1.1.2 14409
    1.1.3 14410
    1.1.4 14411
    1.3 14523
    2.0 14847 MSFP
    2.1 14914
    2.2 14928
    2.2.1 14929
    2.3 14955
    2.5 14967
    3.0 15096
    3.0.1 15097
    3.2 15633
    3.3 15671
    3.3.1 15673
    Last edited by Malatesta; 01/16/2008 at 04:39 PM.

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  11. #11  
    I was just thinking about windows update today. It is a huge downfall that MS cannot push updates or at the least let the user request a update to there WM phone. It looks like they have some sort of framework setup to do it but as you said, with all of the players (telcoms, hardware mfr.) who knows if it will ever be used.
  12. #12  
    Dieter are you jealous of the jigglies?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I dont know if you noticed, but the UI of the iPhone and WM phones are different. The iPhone uses a flat Palm-like launcher, now with multiple pages (which means you can forget where you left you app potentially).

    WM (professional) uses the start menu. You can easily specify which 7 apps you want there, and you have 5 more slots which are filled with your OTHER most recently used apps. Thats 12 of your apps available with a simple UI. How many apps do you use every day?

    Why people hate on the Start menu I dont really know, but it works rather well.

    Again, just because the iPhone does something some way does not make it the best way, and I think the UI was never meant to be extended the way it is, and is in fact slowly falling apart usability-wise.

    Surur
    You've cracked.
    The iPhone's launcher is not like Palm's. You need to scroll Palm's up and down to get to icons that are not within viewing range. This is disorienting. With Apple's solution, you have what is an easily discernible placement - page 1 or page 2. And do you know why Apple went with navigating adjacent pages by swiping - no, it is not because of consistency (which would shoot your theory to hell about the iPhone's UI slowly falling apart ). It is because it is easier to get to what you want by sliding a new page in rather than attentively navigating to a precise location that is only vaguely represented by a sidebar's size relative to the amount of content. I am drunk and I can write this because it is so obvious.

    You know what else is obvious. The fact that you are so obviously wrong in stating that the iPhone's UI is slowly fallling apart.

    Everything in this last update has done nothing but strengthen the ease of use, the logic behind the choices made and the placement abd navigation of the UI elements.

    Let's take Safari: they moved the bookmark button down to the bottom bar (from the top left) which allows for a tap to rise up from this bar when clicked. This is a far more logical placement especially when considering th eoptions and the grouping of the now, 3 current choices of bookmarking. AND WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE TO THIS CHANGE OF INTERFACE ELEMENT PLACEMENT!!!???!!! Yet an even better position for what was once a hidden icon, the search tool (the magnifying glass). You can now easily see what to do (where to click) to search. And of course the enlarging of this upper bar is so appropriate in context, it makes you say, "THIS is cool!"

    Google Maps. Same thing. The addiotions are so well grouped and the icons are even better. And the functionality is of course enhanced over other implementations of this pseudo triangulation because Apple is partnering with Skyhook to triangulate wi-fi locations and stack the two bits of information on top of each other (or I guess subtract the bits of info in this case) to get a more precise location. The step by step directions are even easier to follow as well.

    I could go on but I think I am wasting my time.

    See ya.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    I'm with Surur. I hate touch tech as the sole entry method. One-handed usage was a long time coming and I'm not ready to toss it now that it's here.
    I use the iPhone with just one-hand most all the time.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    I use the iPhone with just one-hand most all the time.
    Picture viewer apps?
  16. #16  
    double tap


    Or sometimes I anchor it with my index finger layed over the top of the screen and then just drag my thumb.
  17. #17  
    First Time EVER!!!!!

    surur lets me have the last word.

    pq[ow4e `sdr['qwe4...



    whatwhat, what, what happened...

    Oh, sorry about that, apparently I lost consciousness for a bit.
  18. #18  
    I was waiting for you to catch the joke. Still haven't I see. I'll keep on waiting.

    Surur
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I was waiting for you to catch the joke. Still haven't I see. I'll keep on waiting.

    Surur
    lol, zing

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