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  1. #41  
    Palm did say that HSDPA would be enabled on the 750 many, many months ago. WM6 enables HSDPA, so I think those of you who haven't loaded the leaked ROM can be pretty ticked about the very long delay.
    Atlas Just Shrugged!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by conekkted View Post
    I'll admit there are of few posters who just need to get over themselves acting as if this upgrade is the most important thing in their lives. However I also am not fond of those people who just discount other people's issues and tell you to just accept getting screwed and move on. To some of us the upgrade is not an issue of simply wanting the latest and greatest cool software. There are still many bugs that are keeping some of our phones from being highly usable. To those of you out there who have no problems, that's great. But the 750 came out in February and here we are in November with no fixes for these issues. And none are planned because they tell us that many issues will be addressed in WM6. So if WM6 is Palm/ATT's only recourse to fix some substantial issues, then people have a right to be knocking rather loudly on their doors demanding a fix. And it is not realistic to tell people to just download the leaked ROM. Regardless of how good it is, some people want the official release for various reasons. So if you are happy with your device then why bother posting in this thread to slam the folks who are frustrated with their situation? Just move on.
    I come to this forum to get information. The 680 forum is all about help, innovation, improvement. This forum is all about whining. It's a waste of time and bandwidth. There ARE substantial issues. They ARE solved with WM6. There's not a single incident of someone bricking a phone, like there is on the Palm OS side. I have installed 3 separate ROMs, gone back to WM5, reinstalled 2 ROMs just to compare. I'm not discounting people's issues. I have the same ones. But rather than bi#ch about them, I fixed them easily with the tools that are readily available. Conekkted, I have read your many posts and I have a lot of respect for you. You definitely add to the dialog. But all these people complaining about make-believe "promise" dates make me nuts.
  3. #43  
    For those of you who say Palm never promised a firm date for an update you are correct--but please acknowledge that if you buy something around the first of the year and the manufacturer's published literature states that an updgrade to HSDPA will be coming later in a software release that it is totally reasonable to expect it far sooner than nearly a year later. To say Palm or AT&T has technically not failed to deliver on a promise is a real stretch. Please admit that given the life expectancly of a pda/phone that not even Palm/AT&T can say waiting an entire year for this update is anywhere close to reasonable.

    Secondly, the bluetooth issue only exists because Palm decided to go with their own bluetooth stack instead of the Windows bluetooth stack. Therefore, if they chose to go with their own and it is essentialy worthless in that it only works with a few car kits then in my opinion they owe the community a fix--and not a year later. If you look at their support page the list of supported car kits for the 750 is laughably short. I don't think it is unreasonable for a consumer who buys a $700 retail priced device, or even worse signs a contract committing to it for two years, should expect it to work with a car kit for a BMW, Audi or whatever car they own--especially when previous devices by the same manufacturer such as the 650 did. I don't buy the "bluetooth integration with car kits is a tricky issue"

    As for the other issues and claims about bugs we can all debate whether Palm/AT&T owe us updates but if a bug such as the memory card issue that is well known to exist is acknowledged how can anyone say a fix can wait a year?

    Still a great device but no mystery to me why so many customers jump ship and try other manufacturer's devices. IMO this is one of the reasons that Palm as a company has performed so poorly in recent times.

    Just my two cents.....
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    For those of you who say Palm never promised a firm date for an update you are correct--but please acknowledge that if you buy something around the first of the year and the manufacturer's published literature states that an updgrade to HSDPA will be coming later in a software release that it is totally reasonable to expect it far sooner than nearly a year later. To say Palm or AT&T has technically not failed to deliver on a promise is a real stretch. Please admit that given the life expectancly of a pda/phone that not even Palm/AT&T can say waiting an entire year for this update is anywhere close to reasonable.

    Secondly, the bluetooth issue only exists because Palm decided to go with their own bluetooth stack instead of the Windows bluetooth stack. Therefore, if they chose to go with their own and it is essentialy worthless in that it only works with a few car kits then in my opinion they owe the community a fix--and not a year later. If you look at their support page the list of supported car kits for the 750 is laughably short. I don't think it is unreasonable for a consumer who buys a $700 retail priced device, or even worse signs a contract committing to it for two years, should expect it to work with a car kit for a BMW, Audi or whatever car they own--especially when previous devices by the same manufacturer such as the 650 did. I don't buy the "bluetooth integration with car kits is a tricky issue"

    As for the other issues and claims about bugs we can all debate whether Palm/AT&T owe us updates but if a bug such as the memory card issue that is well known to exist is acknowledged how can anyone say a fix can wait a year?

    Still a great device but no mystery to me why so many customers jump ship and try other manufacturer's devices. IMO this is one of the reasons that Palm as a company has performed so poorly in recent times.

    Just my two cents.....
    DSOL - Your two cents are perfectly stated and worth much more than two cents! Thank you for your insight.

    I also think it is important to note that for many it is absolutely not an option to load an unauthorized version of WM 6.0 on their phone. There are software license issues, legal issues and employer guidelines for technology, particulary, as in my case, in law firms. To discount the frustration we feel because some are able to load unathorized versions of WM 6.0 is not understanding the big picture for us.
  5. #45  
    From my perspective. I think those who complain about the lack of an upgrade and refuse to use the leaked Roms have a point. They are trying to be responsible with their hardware, licensing etc.

    Those who call Palm or AT&T to speak to some 1st level schmuck and start rumours about a potential updgarde date are the irritating ones. Who in the right mind thinks that these support reps are going to give them any real information?
  6. #46  
    There is a hack for just the HSDPA, it was out way before any of the leaked roms hit the internet. If that is your biggest gripe about WM not being released then just do the hack. From what I remember, it was working just fine.
    AT&T Treo 750 Locked official WM6 update
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    ...manufacturer's published literature states that an updgrade to HSDPA will be coming later in a software release that it is totally reasonable to expect it far sooner than nearly a year later. To say Palm or AT&T has technically not failed to deliver on a promise is a real stretch.

    If you look at their support page the list of supported car kits for the 750 is laughably short. I don't think it is unreasonable for a consumer who buys a $700 retail priced device, or even worse signs a contract committing to it for two years, should expect it to work with a car kit for a BMW, Audi or whatever car they own--especially when previous devices by the same manufacturer such as the 650 did.

    Just my two cents.....
    DSOL,

    I have excerpted your post so I can address a single issue.... I have never bought a technology device based on promises of what it might do in the future. WM5 is what it is. The Bluetooth stack is what it is. The compatibility list is ridiculously short, but it is what it is. All the specs are published.

    Every time I've seen a promise of a device/system enhancement, by the time it comes out, it's old technology. So I buy based on what it does out of the box -- now. You seem to be pretty tech savvy, so you know this. I've bought dozens of devices that manufacturers say will be firmware upgradable to future specs. They never are. Microsoft is still working the bugs out of XP, years after its release, with patches.

    Here's the choice: Deploy the WM5/Treo 750 with what it has, or wait until WM6 is ready. If you were a product manager with revenue responsibilities, what would you do? Every tech company does the former. Every single one.
  8. #48  
    Delays like this are EXACTLY why a company does not announce an actual release date.

    You think those that whine and complain about the lack of WM6 missing rumored release dates would be happier if/when palm missed an actual announced release date? In either case, it's not available yet. What difference does it make?

    We'd all be happier if the official WM6 update for our ATT&T Treo were out already. But it isn't. But neither are the little space cars that Jetsons rode around in, and I'd love one of those.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    Delays like this are EXACTLY why a company does not announce an actual release date.

    You think those that whine and complain about the lack of WM6 missing rumored release dates would be happier if/when palm missed an actual announced release date? In either case, it's not available yet. What difference does it make?

    We'd all be happier if the official WM6 update for our ATT&T Treo were out already. But it isn't. But neither are the little space cars that Jetsons rode around in, and I'd love one of those.
    They're whining and complaining because Palm promised HSDPA for these phones, and a year later, Palm has not released software to enable HSDPA.

    I'm using the leaked ROM, and I was using the hack before the leak. The hack was not reliable. I had to keep reinstalling it.

    Hacks and leaks are not the same as releasing official code. People have every right to complain that an HSDPA solution has not been released. Palm's official position is that WM6 is their HSDPA solution, so they need to get on the ball and release it.
    Atlas Just Shrugged!
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by convbcuda View Post
    They're whining and complaining because Palm promised HSDPA for these phones, and a year later, Palm has not released software to enable HSDPA.

    I'm using the leaked ROM, and I was using the hack before the leak. The hack was not reliable. I had to keep reinstalling it.

    Hacks and leaks are not the same as releasing official code. People have every right to complain that an HSDPA solution has not been released. Palm's official position is that WM6 is their HSDPA solution, so they need to get on the ball and release it.
    When it's ready, they'll release it.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    When it's ready, they'll release it.
    No kidding.

    The problem is the promises they made about HSDPA and the time it is taking to make good on those promises. Their inability to have it ready in a timely manner is worthy of lots of criticism.
    Atlas Just Shrugged!
  12. #52  
    Dont even get started with Toonfan, he has his head so far up Palm/AT&Ts nether regions it is sick. He will sit here and defend them untill the world ends.

    Does the upgrade not being here suck? Yes. Is there a justifiable reason for people to be upset? Yes, especially now that Palm has released the 750 for AT&T with WM6 preinstalled, but only to Corp customers buying in bulk. This speaks VOLUMES to me about the entire train wreck that has been the WM6 update. It clearly shows that the update is ready, is not in any type of testing phase and has been certified by AT&T labs for a while.

    Im sure ToonFan will have some kind of rebutle to this post, he always does. Thats fine, it is a public forum, and he has every right, just like I have every right to ignore his posts and form my own personal opinion about lurkers that only post with negative comments, and never leave any constructive or infomative feedback.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    Dont even get started with Toonfan, he has his head so far up Palm/AT&Ts nether regions it is sick. He will sit here and defend them untill the world ends.

    Does the upgrade not being here suck? Yes. Is there a justifiable reason for people to be upset? Yes, especially now that Palm has released the 750 for AT&T with WM6 preinstalled, but only to Corp customers buying in bulk. This speaks VOLUMES to me about the entire train wreck that has been the WM6 update. It clearly shows that the update is ready, is not in any type of testing phase and has been certified by AT&T labs for a while.

    Im sure ToonFan will have some kind of rebutle to this post, he always does. Thats fine, it is a public forum, and he has every right, just like I have every right to ignore his posts and form my own personal opinion about lurkers that only post with negative comments, and never leave any constructive or infomative feedback.
    Wrong. I'm not defending either of them. Never have. My point has always been how some of you have this artificial sense of entitlement to information from Palm. Did they promise upgrades? Yes. Did they say when? No.

    I tried to explain the process from a corporate product introduction perspective, and why you don't announce release dates when you don't know what they are. You chose to ignore it. I'm OK with that. But you should re-read your own posts because it is posters like you spewing the negativity. I've been fairly positive. I've always said it will be out when it's released. I've chosen not to believe rumors and speculation. And I've avoided to constant let down you seem to be afflicted with when yet another unsubstantiated release date passes. Each rumored release date causes you to initiate a chat session with a Pal or ATT rep. Contrary to what you may think, we're not clicking the refresh button hoping to see another transcript of one of your chat sessions with a rep.

    Maybe you can explain to the Treo Central forum world how your insults contribute anything constructive to the discussion.

    Life and the current state of the world present far more important issues than whether Palm announces the WM6 update to coincide witha rumor. If this is the biggest issue in your life right now, then you are the most fortunate human alive.

    I'll now leave you to get back to your bitter disappointment.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  14. #54  
    ToonFan

    First off, the negativity of my post was directed at you. (Yes I admit it was negative) This is not the first thread I have been involved in that you came out of no where and IMHO minimalize the other user’s gripes, complaints, etc. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, and quite honestly I do actually read your posts, contrary to my earlier statement, and I respect your opinion. I also am using my own freedom to voice my opinion of your opinion. You seem like an intelligent individual, and you have a valid argument to a certain extent.

    This argument about who is right and wrong, who was and wasn't promised what could go on for ever. The simple fact about THIS particular thread is that the "rumored" date as you put it was provided by another user via a link to Treonauts, a user got it, apparently, from a source inside AT&T. They posted an edited version of that email on Treonauts and it was linked here. I am in no position to judge the validity of said email, but I am not about to call the person a liar either. Not all of us that are waiting for the release are waiting for it because it’s pretty, or the newest thing. We are looking for it to help improve an already decent product, and to help improve our productivity while using said product.

    You keep touting that you are this business professional with all of this knowledge about how things are done in the business world, especially in regards to release dates etc. You are also quite quick to slam on any of the other users who express even the slightest bit of emotion or opinion about "rumored" release dates come and gone, or the lack of official word from AT&T or Palm. Do you know me? Do you know what I do for a living outside of the little bits of information I have shared on these forums? I don't think you do.
    What makes you think I am any less qualified to have my opinion of how this should have been handled than you are? I am a member of this and at least 5 other forums, including the official AT&T forums, yet this is the only one where one or more users seem determined to mimimalize the other user’s opinions, feelings, and thoughts regarding this. You say I am the only one making negative posts, I am not the one calling other users whiners, crybabies etc. (To my knowledge you are not either, for the record) I certainly do not see you telling them THEY are leaving negative posts.


    The facts are this;

    1. AT&T/Palm promised an update to the Treo 750
    2. That update WAS announced to be available by March 2007; it has since been bumped back again and again
    3. AT&T/Cingular sold a buggy and partially defective device, with promises that said update would address all of the known issues
    4. The update is currently available for every other version of the Treo 750 EXCEPT AT&T
    5. Palm is now selling AT&T branded Treo 750s preinstalled with WM6, but ONLY to Corp. Customers (read orders of 10 or more units)
    6. Anyone with a Treo 750 box, Cingular or AT&T branded, has written proof of a release being available in 2007, at the very least to address the HSPDA issue
    7. AT&T/Palm has chosen to remain completely silent about thee update, keeping their customers in the dark about any and all progress.


    I do in fact have a chat transcript from a Palm rep, and to be quite honest, he was very candid and honest about the release, not giving me "scripted" answers. I did not at any time become negative or nasty with him as some people have. I would post portions of that transcript for others to read, but as you said:

    we’re not clicking the refresh button hoping to see another transcript of one of your chat sessions with a rep.

    As for your other comments:

    Life and the current state of the world present far more important issues than whether Palm announces the WM6 update to coincide with a rumor. If this is the biggest issue in your life right now, then you are the most fortunate human alive.
    Again, you don't know me, and you have no idea what issues I have going on or what I deem important. It is by far NOT the biggest issue in my life right now, but if while I am WORKING I choose to make inquiries and post in these and other forums, it is no indication of my life and what I deem important.

    I'll now leave you to get back to your bitter disappointment.
    I am not bitterly disappointed. I have never had a single complaint about the quality of service I get from AT&T. There is rarely a place I travel to that I do not have reception, and up to this point, even customer service has been superb. My "disappointment" comes from the fact that I had a device that required a daily reset to keep the memory card mounted, and even after applying the audio patch I still had issues with my sounds. The BT stack was a joke and to a certain degree still is, although the WM6 that I am running seems to have addressed a lot of the issues, and that when it was sold it was sold as (read LABLED ON THE BOX) as being HSDPA via an update.

    Take this for what it's worth. I am not on these forums to get into a pissing contest with another user. I am here to learn and to share information with others, and to express my opinions, be they frustrations or anything else in a public manner.
    Last edited by bellington74; 11/09/2007 at 04:26 PM.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybob View Post
    DSOL,

    Every time I've seen a promise of a device/system enhancement, by the time it comes out, it's old technology. So I buy based on what it does out of the box -- now. You seem to be pretty tech savvy, so you know this. I've bought dozens of devices that manufacturers say will be firmware upgradable to future specs. They never are. Microsoft is still working the bugs out of XP, years after its release, with patches.
    Jimmybob,

    I never really considered your perspective when making purchases in the past but clearly you make a good point and one that I will likely follow in the future--that being I will buy a piece equipment based on what it has out of the box and not wait for the upgrade.

    Im my defense though I knew very little about WM5 at the time as I was converting from a POS 650 and I certainly didn't know about WM5 vs WM6. But what I learned after I bought the device was quite a bit about the flaws in the WM5 OS as modified by Palm for the 750. I would guess that I do more research than most when buying a piece of technology but I also bet many readers and contributors to this forum do far more. I am not an IT admin or systems trained person. I am a sales guy with a little bit of "geek" mixed in. I read about 3 or 4 things that were offered in the 750 that were likely to never be offered in a POS device, at least for a very long time. Namely they were:

    1. Simultaneous voice and data--allowing me to receive emails while talking on the phone

    2. UMTS speed, which in theory is faster than EDGE/GPRS but significantly faster when HSDPA enabled--I did know that HSDPA was not included (but promised later) but I felt the jump to UMTS which included number 1 above and 250kps speed was still worthwhile.

    3. The ability of the 750 to multi task so that if I was composing an email or surfing the web when a call came in I would at a minimum not lose my place and at best actually be able to continue with what I was doing prior to the call coming in.

    Additonally, there were two more features that I liked but were available on a POS devices which was more on board memory and the removal of the stubby antenna but as a Cingular customer my only choice was the 680 and there were already some well known issues with that. I run Good Mobile Messaging and it is a resourece/memory hog so I feel I needed the additional memory offered by the 750.

    The above caused me to decide on the 750--reluctantly as I worried about adapting to WM (I also hated going from a 320x320 screen to 240x240 but IMO the GUI on WM is good enough that I don't notice the difference---maybe if I were looking at a jpeg but certainly not in email, etc.) It proved very easy to get used to WM5 and I am extremely happly I did not go the 680 route.

    I had no idea that I would lose bluetooth connectivity with my car kit especially since my 2 year old Palm device worked fine (won't make that mistake again) and I felt I had no reason to look into this. As a total aside I had just read either an article or a post about how the Palm engineers actually brought a car into their office building to test out bluetooth connectivity with the device.

    I had basically come to the point with my POS 650 that I had with my Macintosh about 12 or so years earlier. That being I could argue all I wanted to about how the Mac OS was better than Windows but if the PC world had about 20 times the software available for a Windows machine than Apple did for a Mac, and that it clearly made more sense for software companies to devote their resources to the device that would likely result in exponentially greater sales there was an easy answer. I know there is a ton of POS software out there now, but I am guessing that as we move into the future WM apps will be significantly more prevalent.

    I really don't think there were any fatal flaws in my logic but some readers might say otherwise.

    I also agree with those that are blown away by the posts that are critical of others but it is easy to get drawn into the battle as I have in the past--I hope to stay above that in the future.

    This site is a tremendous resource/help site for the 750. I am amazed at how quickly people answer questions and how often you can search and find the answers. I say keep it up everybody.

    Long post I know--sorry.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  16. #56  
    I have also not had any problems with WM5.2.2, and since day one, the HSDPA hack has worked flawlessly. I want a Treo 750 with 320x320 resolution.
    Treo Pro | Blackberry Bold OS 4.6.0.167 | Slingbox PRO-HD | Plantronics 665 Bluetooth

    Internet Sharing tethering app --> Awesome

  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by CrunchDude View Post
    I have also not had any problems with WM5.2.2, and since day one, the HSDPA hack has worked flawlessly. I want a Treo 750 with 320x320 resolution.
    Well then from what I hear it will have to be a WM6 device because WM5 does not support 320x320.

    I want that as well plus a thinner device and better battery life--but I will take my current 750 running a beta ATT ROM that is probably the last version given that corporate 750's now come with WM6.

    Too bad it is digitally signed and it could be traced back to the person who gave it to me or I would share it with anyone who wanted it.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    ToonFan




    The facts are this;

    1. That update WAS announced to be available by March 2007; it has since been bumped back again and again
    2. Anyone with a Treo 750 box, Cingular or AT&T branded, has written proof of a release being available in 2007, at the very least to address the HSPDA issue
    3. AT&T/Palm has chosen to remain completely silent about thee update, keeping their customers in the dark about any and all progress.


    I do in fact have a chat transcript from a Palm rep, and to be quite honest, he was very candid and honest about the release, not giving me "scripted" answers. I did not at any time become negative or nasty with him as some people have. I would post portions of that transcript for others to read, but as you said:



    As for your other comments:



    Again, you don't know me, and you have no idea what issues I have going on or what I deem important. It is by far NOT the biggest issue in my life right now, but if while I am WORKING I choose to make inquiries and post in these and other forums, it is no indication of my life and what I deem important.


    AT&T NEVER announced a March release date.

    Having a transcript or a discussion with an AT&T employee is not an official announcement.

    Not speaking about your Bluetooth issue but if you already haven't done this there are a couple of solutions to your SD card problem.

    1. Get a different brand of SD card and see if that fixes the issue. This has been well discussed in many of the forums that some SD cards are better then others. The one I personally use is a SanDisk Ultra II 2GB card and I do not have any disconnect issues. But I did with another brand prior to switching to this one.

    2. You have a defective Treo and it is still covered under warranty and you should swap it out. If you have already done this, then do it again because you may have received another defective Treo as a replacement for the defective one you sent back.

    I wish you the best of luck.
  19. #59  
    I know WM6 won't give me higher resolution. However, I am hoping that AT&T will come out with a Treo with WM6 that has 320x320. Any idea as to whether or not that will happen?

    Also, the Treo 750's that corporate customers get with WM6 pre-installed, do they have that capability?

    And if not, will AT&T come out with a new Treo anytime soon? The Tilt came out less than a year after the 8525 was released, so I'm hoping for another Treo to come out reasonably soon.
    Treo Pro | Blackberry Bold OS 4.6.0.167 | Slingbox PRO-HD | Plantronics 665 Bluetooth

    Internet Sharing tethering app --> Awesome

  20. #60  
    Why wait? I just updated my Cingular 750 (to an unbranded WM6 install): http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=156093

    For those of you who are having Bluetooth problems, it's not the phone, the problem is with your car's Bluetooth module. My X5 module was the 1st gen model, so I replaced that with the latest 13th gen model. Once I replaced that it works well with the Treo, even with WM5. After the Treo update to WM6, I don't notice any specific improvement (i.e. the real issue was with the X5's old Bluetooth module).
    Last edited by charliez; 11/11/2007 at 11:54 PM.
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