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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop View Post
    How does my life significantly improve? It gives me a time table; it tells me to be patient regardless of what is released in the meantime; it tells me that Palm isn't playing games with the consumer.

    And if they did announce a release date, only to move it back, I won't loose a wink of sleep. Apparently the concept of informing customers of product information is too hard for you to grasp as well.

    Is it so difficult to understand that those of us who'd like to see WM6, who are pleased with the Treo would like a little more information from the manufacturer beyond "we're working on it"?

    It's not just the release of WM6 but it's also with other products from Palm and it's partners. Remember all the garbage that went on with the release of the 680?

    Toon, you like asking questions so here's a few for you. Why shouldn't Palm offer consumers more concrete product information? Why shouldn't they give us a target date for WM6 release? Why is it acceptable to offer vague statements regarding the release, keeping consumers guessing and frustrated?
    So you can be patient if you get a release date, but you can't be patient if they say "coming soon"? Then we live in different worlds, because that makes no sense.

    I didn't get caught up in the 680 "garbage". I bought one when when it was released, because I couldn't before that. I don't have the time or energy to get so emotional over vaporware.

    I don't have answers because those are questions I would never ask.

    Yes, I wish the WM6 upgrade was released weeks ago, and that we all had it on our Treo devices. But it isn't. When the upgrade is announced, I'll install it. Until then, there are lots of other things I can worry about.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    I for one have been in contact with SEVERAL senior support reps with both AT&T AND Palm, and even the Palm reps have told me THEY are still working with AT&T to get the ROM ready, but the ROM is in their hands, not AT&T.
    With your insider knowledge, what is being included in this 'special' AT&T version of WM6 for the Treo 750 that isn't already available from any of the multitude of Palm WM6 versions readily available?

    Is it possible that AT&T has requested Palm withold the update for the Cingular/AT&T branded Treos? Yes, I will give you that much, it is highly possible
    Why would it be in AT&T's interest for them to instruct Palm to withhold the update when Palm has released WM6 to most every other carrier? Market manipulation?

    I was told, in store when I bought it back in March that the upgrade would be available by July. July came and went, then it was August 15th, then September 17th, then October 12th, then October 15th, then October 21st/22nd.
    Getting your info from the same contact point(s) within each org? How long have you been receiving this insider info?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    With your insider knowledge, what is being included in this 'special' AT&T version of WM6 for the Treo 750 that isn't already available from any of the multitude of Palm WM6 versions readily available?
    I wouldn't call it "insider knowledge" so much as I simply complain until I get transferred to someone who is not reading off of a script. Even AT&T has multiple levels of support. As far as whatís included in the 'special' AT&T Version, I have been told the same things that others have, and is available on other public forums. HSDPA, CV, AT&T Mall, AT&T Music, TeleNav and MobiTV Install applications, and an upgrade to the phone controls. Whether or not there is any difference between this build and the dozens of leaked versions I do not know. I for one don't want a $500.00 paperweight because I bricked my phone. I know there is a fairly stable leaked AT&T Beta ROM out, and have heard fairly good things about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Why would it be in AT&T's interest for them to instruct Palm to withhold the update when Palm has released WM6 to most every other carrier? Market manipulation?
    I don't think it would be in their best interest to instruct Palm to withhold it. That was simply speculation, not implication. Let me put it this way... IF AT&T has instructed Palm to withhold the update, it is not going to be for market manipulation. I have stated elsewhere that AT&T has started launching the second half of their HSPA data package, HSUPA, and that this could be cause for the delay. I believe the current version of HSDPA for the WM6 build for Treo is 1.8, and I am not versed enough in the new 3.5G technology to know if that build includes full HSUPA functionality, perhaps someone with more experience can verify.


    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Getting your info from the same contact point(s) within each org? How long have you been receiving this insider info?
    When July came around I went to my local store and made the initial inquiry about the update. They told me that it had been pushed back to August, and to call Customer Service for a new release date. I called and spoke with a rep on Aug 1st, and was told the update would be posted to the Palm website on or about the 15th of August. I started checking the 15th, 16th and 17th before I called Palm for an update. (Since it was supposed to be posted to their site) The Palm rep told me that the release had been delayed and that a 'target' date of Sept. 17th had been set. Sept. 17th passed with not word one from Palm or AT&T. I called Palm, who told me to call AT&T, who told me to call Palm. I asked for someone higher up the pecking order until I got a 'senior support rep' (his words not mine) that said the official release dates were as follows, Oct. 12th for the 750, 15th for the BJ and 20th for the 8525. Oct. 12th came and went and I called again, was told to speak to Palm. I called Palm who said they were to receive the go ahead the 15th and it should be available no later than the 21st/22nd of October. Its not insider information, if you ask enough you get some kind of answer, even if its just something to shut you up. On Monday I contacted the AT&T senior rep via email, and this is what his email reply was to me.

    "Brian,

    I talked to the reps from Palm today; they stated an upgrade will be out in about 30 days or so. You might still want to check other sources for the info, but Iím sure that the guy I talked too knows what he was talking about.



    Wayne Christian"

    I was asked to not publicly post his email address, but if anyone would like it PM me and I will provide it to you, as long as it is not posted publicly.


    I am not "angry" or putting my life on hold over this. I am disappointed that I have had empty promises made to me on a continual basis by both Palm and AT&T. As I stated in an earlier post, the main reason I chose the Treo was the promise of HSDPA and WM6. I knew coming into it that WM5 was buggy; I had an 8125 prior to this and couldn't stand it because of the WM5 bugs.

    The really sad thing about all of this is that if and when we do get the official ROM, when word leaks about an "update" for that, we will probably all start chomping at the bit for that as well, because most technophiles always want the latest and greatest.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    I wouldn't call it "insider knowledge" so much as I simply complain until I get transferred to someone who is not reading off of a script. Even AT&T has multiple levels of support. As far as whatís included in the 'special' AT&T Version, I have been told the same things that others have, and is available on other public forums. HSDPA, CV, AT&T Mall, AT&T Music, TeleNav and MobiTV Install applications, and an upgrade to the phone controls. Whether or not there is any difference between this build and the dozens of leaked versions I do not know. I for one don't want a $500.00 paperweight because I bricked my phone. I know there is a fairly stable leaked AT&T Beta ROM out, and have heard fairly good things about it.




    I don't think it would be in their best interest to instruct Palm to withhold it. That was simply speculation, not implication. Let me put it this way... IF AT&T has instructed Palm to withhold the update, it is not going to be for market manipulation. I have stated elsewhere that AT&T has started launching the second half of their HSPA data package, HSUPA, and that this could be cause for the delay. I believe the current version of HSDPA for the WM6 build for Treo is 1.8, and I am not versed enough in the new 3.5G technology to know if that build includes full HSUPA functionality, perhaps someone with more experience can verify.




    When July came around I went to my local store and made the initial inquiry about the update. They told me that it had been pushed back to August, and to call Customer Service for a new release date. I called and spoke with a rep on Aug 1st, and was told the update would be posted to the Palm website on or about the 15th of August. I started checking the 15th, 16th and 17th before I called Palm for an update. (Since it was supposed to be posted to their site) The Palm rep told me that the release had been delayed and that a 'target' date of Sept. 17th had been set. Sept. 17th passed with not word one from Palm or AT&T. I called Palm, who told me to call AT&T, who told me to call Palm. I asked for someone higher up the pecking order until I got a 'senior support rep' (his words not mine) that said the official release dates were as follows, Oct. 12th for the 750, 15th for the BJ and 20th for the 8525. Oct. 12th came and went and I called again, was told to speak to Palm. I called Palm who said they were to receive the go ahead the 15th and it should be available no later than the 21st/22nd of October. Its not insider information, if you ask enough you get some kind of answer, even if its just something to shut you up. On Monday I contacted the AT&T senior rep via email, and this is what his email reply was to me.

    "Brian,

    I talked to the reps from Palm today; they stated an upgrade will be out in about 30 days or so. You might still want to check other sources for the info, but Iím sure that the guy I talked too knows what he was talking about.



    Wayne Christian"

    I was asked to not publicly post his email address, but if anyone would like it PM me and I will provide it to you, as long as it is not posted publicly.


    I am not "angry" or putting my life on hold over this. I am disappointed that I have had empty promises made to me on a continual basis by both Palm and AT&T. As I stated in an earlier post, the main reason I chose the Treo was the promise of HSDPA and WM6. I knew coming into it that WM5 was buggy; I had an 8125 prior to this and couldn't stand it because of the WM5 bugs.

    The really sad thing about all of this is that if and when we do get the official ROM, when word leaks about an "update" for that, we will probably all start chomping at the bit for that as well, because most technophiles always want the latest and greatest.
    And coppertop wants to know why I don't think Palm should put release dates out there?????
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  5. #25  
    There is a huge difference between just throwing a date out there to shut someone up and an official announcment. If you do not want to give a date, then tell your reps to simply say that the information is not currently available. Dont tell them to give dates just so they can move on to the next call. I would rather have honesty than dishonesty.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    There is a huge difference between just throwing a date out there to shut someone up and an official announcment. If you do not want to give a date, then tell your reps to simply say that the information is not currently available. Dont tell them to give dates just so they can move on to the next call. I would rather have honesty than dishonesty.
    And there is a huge difference between Palm telling their reps to give a date, and some guy on the phone or behind a desk just trying to be helpful. The fact is, we don't know that Palm specifically told their reps to give dates in order to shut anyone up. That is simply conjecture and speculation. Do phone reps want to get to the next call? Yes. Ever been in a high volume call center and seen the pressure to get to the next customer?
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    And there is a huge difference between Palm telling their reps to give a date, and some guy on the phone or behind a desk just trying to be helpful. The fact is, we don't know that Palm specifically told their reps to give dates in order to shut anyone up. That is simply conjecture and speculation. Do phone reps want to get to the next call? Yes. Ever been in a high volume call center and seen the pressure to get to the next customer?
    Actually yes I have Toonfan, prior to becoming a Release Analyst I did support for the very software I now work on. We develop Tax software, and between September and April the following year, the phones on the support side rang non-stop. (This is a dual call center, with the reps taking both software AND system support calls.) On a slow day we would handle upwards of 2500+ calls a day, during prime tax season that number triples, and at best you can hope for 100 to 150 reps on the phones 10 hours a day. (During prime season) Aside from questions about Tax support, the second most asked question was "When is your next build or release coming out?" I never once just gave some random date to appease the customer. I think that many CS reps forget what they would feel like if the roles were reversed. As I have previously stated, I'm not angry, just disapointed. I have been in the shoes of a Rep, and in the shoes of the consumer. Not once did our Company tell us to make up dates. We were given a release schedule for every product, and if there was going to be a change to that, we let the custoemrs know, whether it was via an email push, notice on the web site or when they called in. I guess thats what I am used to, so that's what I expect.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    So you can be patient if you get a release date, but you can't be patient if they say "coming soon"? Then we live in different worlds, because that makes no sense.

    I don't have answers because those are questions I would never ask.
    I guess we do live in different worlds. "Coming Soon" can mean tomorrow or any day beyond that. I guess I'm looking for something along the lines of what Bellington mentioned, honesty. An honest statement about when a product is going to be released.

    Not having the answers because the questions aren't ones you'd never ask only ducks the issue and I'll have to remember it the next time my wife and I debate an issue. It's obvious you aren't shy about expressing your opinion so why not express it directly to the questions I asked? Surely it's not because it's not unreasonable to ask for or expect PRODUCT information (such as release dates) from manufacturers.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop View Post
    I guess we do live in different worlds. "Coming Soon" can mean tomorrow or any day beyond that. I guess I'm looking for something along the lines of what Bellington mentioned, honesty. An honest statement about when a product is going to be released.

    Not having the answers because the questions aren't ones you'd never ask only ducks the issue and I'll have to remember it the next time my wife and I debate an issue. It's obvious you aren't shy about expressing your opinion so why not express it directly to the questions I asked? Surely it's not because it's not unreasonable to ask for or expect PRODUCT information (such as release dates) from manufacturers.
    What is more accuratye than "soon"?

    Hate to be accused of "ducking" an issue, so here's my answers to your pressing questions based on my experiences:

    1) They do when products are released. Anything earlier just gives your competition an easier time in developing competitve product.

    2) If they knew of a definite "target" date, they likely would announce it. Fearing they could not meet it, it makes better sense not to pin it down to a specific date.

    3) See #2 above. They are not trying to make you frustrated and guess. These are emotions you bring on yourself because you believe you should be getting something from Palm that they are not obligated to give you.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bellington74 View Post
    Actually yes I have Toonfan, prior to becoming a Release Analyst I did support for the very software I now work on. We develop Tax software, and between September and April the following year, the phones on the support side rang non-stop. (This is a dual call center, with the reps taking both software AND system support calls.) On a slow day we would handle upwards of 2500+ calls a day, during prime tax season that number triples, and at best you can hope for 100 to 150 reps on the phones 10 hours a day. (During prime season) Aside from questions about Tax support, the second most asked question was "When is your next build or release coming out?" I never once just gave some random date to appease the customer. I think that many CS reps forget what they would feel like if the roles were reversed. As I have previously stated, I'm not angry, just disapointed. I have been in the shoes of a Rep, and in the shoes of the consumer. Not once did our Company tell us to make up dates. We were given a release schedule for every product, and if there was going to be a change to that, we let the custoemrs know, whether it was via an email push, notice on the web site or when they called in. I guess thats what I am used to, so that's what I expect.
    There is absolutely no eveidence that Palm told their reps to make up dates. That is nothing more than speculation on your part. If you choose to believe that, then yes, I can understand why you feel frustrated. But that is a problem for you to deal with. It's not palm's problem. Of course, you'll believe it's Palm's problem, in which case you should exercise your right as a consumer not to buy a Palm product if you feel this strongly about them. Not all companies can please all customers.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  11. #31  
    God I just love public forums
  12. #32  
    http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/10/interview-with-.html

    Interview with Joe Fabris on Palm and Microsoft

    Continuing from yesterday's news, I sat down for an audio interview to share my thoughts on Microsoft Center Mobile Device Manager 2008 and Palm's relationship with Microsoft in general.

    Download palm/files/cf1011_final.mp3

    Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year.

    -Joe
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    What is more accuratye than "soon"?
    You've got to be kidding me. Let's see.... any specific date is more accurate, any specific week on the calendar, any month on the calendar and any business quarter would be more accurate than "soon".

    1) They do when products are released. Anything earlier just gives your competition an easier time in developing competitve product.
    Ok. Skip the nuts and bolts but why should the expected release date be kept under lock and key?

    2) If they knew of a definite "target" date, they likely would announce it. Fearing they could not meet it, it makes better sense not to pin it down to a specific date.
    You don't give the consumers enough credit. I think if the company would give us a target date and then had to extend it, we'd be understanding. I somehow doubt Palm, ATT or MS are working on a "when we get it completed, it will be completed" time frame. I'm sure target dates aren't foriegn to them so why should they be foriegn to us.

    3) See #2 above. They are not trying to make you frustrated and guess. These are emotions you bring on yourself because you believe you should be getting something from Palm that they are not obligated to give you.
    The emotions are brought about as a reaction. A reaction to the cat and mouse game that ATT, Palm, or MS are playing with consumers. I didn't dream up the idea that WM6 would be available for the 750, that it would be free or that it would be released on Oct. 12th. Palm created the obligation by marketing the 750 with the availability of WM6, announcing it would be free and allowing rumors and "leaks" to go unaddressed.

    Regardless of what hollow arguements you throw out, I still think one of the three players (ATT, Palm or MS) should step up to the plate and give consumers an honest statement on the release of WM6. It's poor business practice to allow rumors to steer your marketing department.

    You think the world of Palm and choose to follow them blindly.
    Great.
    More power to you.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo View Post

    Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year.

    -Joe
    Wow.
    Another "Coming Soon" prediction.

    I guess in Toon's world, this is top-notch accurate information because there's only two more months left in the year.....
  15. #35  
    I have wm 6 on my 750 was a big improvement over wm5 but I just went to centro with a sero plan and not looking back love this baby and ready to say goodbye to att goodbye 40 dollar data plan goodbye lousy service my whole bill should be about 40 bucks now

    Fred
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo View Post
    http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/10/interview-with-.html

    Interview with Joe Fabris on Palm and Microsoft

    Continuing from yesterday's news, I sat down for an audio interview to share my thoughts on Microsoft Center Mobile Device Manager 2008 and Palm's relationship with Microsoft in general.

    Download palm/files/cf1011_final.mp3

    Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year.

    -Joe
    So here we go again. Later this year, hopefully it isn't Dec 31st when we see WM6.

    BUT why does Rogers have WM6 on there shipping version of the Treo 750? And AT&T are taking there good o'l time releasing it.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop View Post
    You've got to be kidding me. Let's see.... any specific date is more accurate, any specific week on the calendar, any month on the calendar and any business quarter would be more accurate than "soon".



    Ok. Skip the nuts and bolts but why should the expected release date be kept under lock and key?



    You don't give the consumers enough credit. I think if the company would give us a target date and then had to extend it, we'd be understanding. I somehow doubt Palm, ATT or MS are working on a "when we get it completed, it will be completed" time frame. I'm sure target dates aren't foriegn to them so why should they be foriegn to us.



    The emotions are brought about as a reaction. A reaction to the cat and mouse game that ATT, Palm, or MS are playing with consumers. I didn't dream up the idea that WM6 would be available for the 750, that it would be free or that it would be released on Oct. 12th. Palm created the obligation by marketing the 750 with the availability of WM6, announcing it would be free and allowing rumors and "leaks" to go unaddressed.

    Regardless of what hollow arguements you throw out, I still think one of the three players (ATT, Palm or MS) should step up to the plate and give consumers an honest statement on the release of WM6. It's poor business practice to allow rumors to steer your marketing department.

    You think the world of Palm and choose to follow them blindly.
    Great.
    More power to you.
    Please don't confuse the word "accurate" with "specific". You want specific, and you're not getting it.

    The expected release date is not a secret. I'm merely suggesting they don't know what it is. Rather than throw a date out there to keep you happy and run the risk of being wrong. Again, this is common practice for consumer products companies.

    There is no chance the people here would be understanding if Palm were to push back release dates. Look how understanding you all are in not getting a release date. Look at the venom directed at Palm in this forum when rumored release dates are not met. What gives you any hope that people here will have any understanding and sympathy? You even hint at a lack of understanding in your post when you chastise Palm for missing the Oct 12 release date.

    I don't think the world of Palm. I'm not a Palm suck-up. I think they are an innovative company that builds a nice product. As I stated, I wish it WM6 for ATT&T was available. In that regard, you and I want the same thing. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products, I think your expectations are way over the top.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  18. #38  
    Can anyone confirm if the AT&T-specific links (AT&T Music / MobiTV / etc) from the leaked ROM are functional or not? You know, the garbage in the extended ROM that most users have extracted out which gives them an additional 9mb of storage space.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToonFan View Post
    Please don't confuse the word "accurate" with "specific". You want specific, and you're not getting it.

    The expected release date is not a secret. I'm merely suggesting they don't know what it is. Rather than throw a date out there to keep you happy and run the risk of being wrong. Again, this is common practice for consumer products companies.

    There is no chance the people here would be understanding if Palm were to push back release dates. Look how understanding you all are in not getting a release date. Look at the venom directed at Palm in this forum when rumored release dates are not met. What gives you any hope that people here will have any understanding and sympathy? You even hint at a lack of understanding in your post when you chastise Palm for missing the Oct 12 release date.

    I don't think the world of Palm. I'm not a Palm suck-up. I think they are an innovative company that builds a nice product. As I stated, I wish it WM6 for ATT&T was available. In that regard, you and I want the same thing. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products, I think your expectations are way over the top.

    I'm not chastising Palm for missing the Oct. 12th date, I'm chastising them for keeping the date secret. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products you probably aren't too successful if you sell your customers short by not thinking they will be understanding if a release date is pushed back.

    I'd rather have the information, hope for success and be understanding if delays occur. To think we as consumers can't handle it, is demeaning and rude. Had Palm or its partners addressed the rumored dates, the backlash would not have been as intense. Instead, Palm is letting rumors stear thier marketing and there is a lot of false, misleading information out there. As a industry insider, I'm sure you prefer that to the truth.

    I guess all this is a moot point in that Palm, ATT or any other player in this game doesn't give a rip what I think. Especially when they have cheerleaders available to defend them.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop View Post
    I'm not chastising Palm for missing the Oct. 12th date, I'm chastising them for keeping the date secret. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products you probably aren't too successful if you sell your customers short by not thinking they will be understanding if a release date is pushed back.

    I'd rather have the information, hope for success and be understanding if delays occur. To think we as consumers can't handle it, is demeaning and rude. Had Palm or its partners addressed the rumored dates, the backlash would not have been as intense. Instead, Palm is letting rumors stear thier marketing and there is a lot of false, misleading information out there. As a industry insider, I'm sure you prefer that to the truth.

    I guess all this is a moot point in that Palm, ATT or any other player in this game doesn't give a rip what I think. Especially when they have cheerleaders available to defend them.
    Actually, our research strongly indicates that consumers are more pissed off when release dates are announced and missed.

    It's not a matter of whether you can handle a release date. You think Palm is intentionally misleading you. There's no reason or benefit for them in doing that. I'm merely suggesting they aren't announcing a date because they may not know what it will be.

    You can continue to believe this conspiracy theory that Palm is intentionally keeping you in the dark. I tried to bring a little insight into the process, but it's clear you want to believe that Palm is just screwing with you. I hope you enjoy WM6 whenever it's released.....
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
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