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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    By the way I think some would argue a vendor relationship is a partnership.
    If they would argue that point, they don't understand business relationships terribly well. As GoodGuy has expressed with the 1.5MM value of the Good/AT&T relationship, at best, Good is a minor consideration.

    Since all opinions on this have turned into regurgitations of themselves, there really isn't much more to say, is there?
  2.    #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Since all opinions on this have turned into regurgitations of themselves, there really isn't much more to say, is there?
    Probably the most insightful post to date! We are all correct!

    Is it poor form for me to ask you if you think GMM 5.0 will be released prior to WM6--just kidding
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Taylor, I wouldn't say I think people are too stupid to heed a warning (one which as of today still doesn't exist by the way
    <snip>
    I simply argue as others have suggested that not everyone reads EULA's. I would actually argue that most people don't read them and I really don't think they are stupid.<snip>
    What I meant was a warning BEFORE even being able to download WM6. And not in the EULA. More like a big message that you must "accept" before downloading in addition to messages to BB connect and Good customers like on this page:
    http://www.palm.com/us/support/downl...pdate/att.html

    But I get your point.
  4.    #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    What I meant was a warning BEFORE even being able to download WM6. And not in the EULA. More like a big message that you must "accept" before downloading in addition to messages to BB connect and Good customers like on this page:
    http://www.palm.com/us/support/downl...pdate/att.html

    But I get your point.
    Can't argue the clarity of that warning. I agree with you. And I know we keep re-hashing the same points but I just now tried the Get Good link again and it still takes me to a screen that says OTA Setup for Pocket PC 6.0 (English) Download Now--no warning. Does this not imply it works?

    I have attached the bmp from my screen capture for those that care.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Can't argue the clarity of that warning. I agree with you. And I know we keep re-hashing the same points but I just now tried the Get Good link again and it still takes me to a screen that says OTA Setup for Pocket PC 6.0 (English) Download Now--no warning. Does this not imply it works?

    I have attached the bmp from my screen capture for those that care.
    Yes, assumption is that the warning WOULD be put in place before WM6 is released so when you click the OTA update you're told it's not supported. Clearly that's not the case now.
    This is all hypothetic as in what could/should be done so they could release WM6 and not screw up the GMM install base.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Can't argue the clarity of that warning. I agree with you. And I know we keep re-hashing the same points but I just now tried the Get Good link again and it still takes me to a screen that says OTA Setup for Pocket PC 6.0 (English) Download Now--no warning. Does this not imply it works?
    Let me get this straight. The ability to successfully download an application equates to its functional compatibility once installed with the operating system of the computer downloading it?

    More regurgitation, anyone?
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Can't argue the clarity of that warning. I agree with you. And I know we keep re-hashing the same points but I just now tried the Get Good link again and it still takes me to a screen that says OTA Setup for Pocket PC 6.0 (English) Download Now--no warning. Does this not imply it works?

    I have attached the bmp from my screen capture for those that care.
    Again, that is the installer, not the client. The GMM admin determines what client gets pushed to the phone and that isn't pushed until the PIN is entered.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    Again, that is the installer, not the client. The GMM admin determines what client gets pushed to the phone and that isn't pushed until the PIN is entered.
    Golly, GoodGuy. Wouldn't someone who has had to rely on GMM on a long, critical basis already know this? Any possible way they could not know this?
  9.    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Golly, GoodGuy. Wouldn't someone who has had to rely on GMM on a long, critical basis already know this? Any possible way they could not know this?
    Okay, I am confused. Is there something wrong with my assumption that when I click on a link and it brings me to a website that says "dowload GMM for PPC 6.0" that the actual download is designed to work with the device I downloaded it too. I would assume that because it says 6.0 it is referring to my OS and more importantly something determined that because I did not tell it what my OS is.

    I have tried to articulate many times that I am just an end user, actually a sales guy who doesn't know the first thing about being a good admin. So go ahead and take your shots at me for saying that GMM is a critical app for me so I should "already know this" but I don't. I don't think a user of an application that is supported by the designer (GMM) and my IT department should have to know the ins and outs of an install process. If I click a link that says do you want to install without a warning I assume it will work. And as little as I apparently know believe me when I tell you nearly all of my peers know a lot less.

    Also, that is how I downloaded 4.9 onto my WM6 system without a warning about incompatibility and if I didn't come to this site I would have never known it was not supported. No warning ever from PIN input to download to install. That is my point.

    Lifestooshort go ahead and make a comment about me being the typical user that is too stupid to use the product but I do far better than most and me and my peers pay the bills to GMM. At this point I have purchased two annualy licenses for $300 and one perpetual for $100 and I think that went straight to GMM.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Okay, I am confused. Is there something wrong with my assumption that when I click on a link and it brings me to a website that says "dowload GMM for PPC 6.0" that the actual download is designed to work with the device I downloaded it too. I would assume that because it says 6.0 it is referring to my OS and more importantly something determined that because I did not tell it what my OS is.

    I have tried to articulate many times that I am just an end user, actually a sales guy who doesn't know the first thing about being a good admin. So go ahead and take your shots at me for saying that GMM is a critical app for me so I should "already know this" but I don't. I don't think a user of an application that is supported by the designer (GMM) and my IT department should have to know the ins and outs of an install process. If I click a link that says do you want to install without a warning I assume it will work. And as little as I apparently know believe me when I tell you nearly all of my peers know a lot less.

    Also, that is how I downloaded 4.9 onto my WM6 system without a warning about incompatibility and if I didn't come to this site I would have never known it was not supported. No warning ever from PIN input to download to install. That is my point.

    Lifestooshort go ahead and make a comment about me being the typical user that is too stupid to use the product but I do far better than most and me and my peers pay the bills to GMM. At this point I have purchased two annualy licenses for $300 and one perpetual for $100 and I think that went straight to GMM.

    The installer that you are downloading is not GMM. It simply goes to your server and downloads the client that your IT group has enabled for your phone. They determine which client to push to which phones. It is your IT department's responsibilty to control the environment. ANYONE can go to get.good.com and download the installer. But if your IT department is letting users decide how and what as it relates to their installation, explain to me how that is the manufacturer's issue. If you upgrade your phone with a leaked, non-official OS upgrade, if I were your IT department, I would tell you either go back to the released OS that is actually supported by the phone manufacturer, or you can wait until WM6 is officially released. Do you do software updates and hack your laptop/desktop? and if you do, does your IT group support it?
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Okay, I am confused. Is there something wrong with my assumption that when I click on a link and it brings me to a website that says "dowload GMM for PPC 6.0" that the actual download is designed to work with the device I downloaded it too. If I click a link that says do you want to install without a warning I assume it will work. And as little as I apparently know believe me when I tell you nearly all of my peers know a lot less.
    You don't make this errant assumption on your desktop/laptop, do you? Again, the ability to download an installer doesn't mean anything about that application's compatibility with the OS of the machine it was downloaded to.

    Lifestooshort go ahead and make a comment about me being the typical user that is too stupid to use the product but I do far better than most and me and my peers pay the bills to GMM.
    I've not once made such a statement. You should know better.
  12.    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    The installer that you are downloading is not GMM. It simply goes to your server and downloads the client that your IT group has enabled for your phone. They determine which client to push to which phones. It is your IT department's responsibilty to control the environment. ANYONE can go to get.good.com and download the installer. But if your IT department is letting users decide how and what as it relates to their installation, explain to me how that is the manufacturer's issue. If you upgrade your phone with a leaked, non-official OS upgrade, if I were your IT department, I would tell you either go back to the released OS that is actually supported by the phone manufacturer, or you can wait until WM6 is officially released. Do you do software updates and hack your laptop/desktop? and if you do, does your IT group support it?
    My laptop is owned by my company but my Treo is mine. I am not going to mess with their property but I figure I can with mine. I figured I could always roll back to WM5 if I had issues that were unsurmountable but that has not been the case. I felt it was a go at your own risk and after reading for a week that most actually felt WM6 was better than WM5 I gave it a go and I am glad I did.

    I was not aware that my IT department determined what was pushed out to me as far as the client goes so I stand corrected. On the admin side do they have the ability to determine what my OS is and prevent if from pushing out to an unsupported ROM such as WM6 or does it just push out the latest version for the respective OS and or device? I work for a very large company and although I am likely one of few that did install the leaked OS I can't know for sure. Can they tell when the end users device asks for the download?

    My company has thousands of GMM users, I believe we had four Good servers about 2 years ago and we have grown significantly since then. My peers use a mix of devices with your software so I have no clue how many use the 750 but likely a few hundred. I don't believe we are part of the beta but would have no way of knowing. I have never even seen the servers. I am betting my company was not part of the beta because we are so conservative but again I don't know. I have read testimonials from my company on your site however in the past.

    Also GG, I would be happy to PM you my contact information and discuss with you. (maybe I work for the same company as Conekkted...) I think these questions go well beyond what the readers of this forum care to see or hear.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  13.    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    You don't make this errant assumption on your desktop/laptop, do you? Again, the ability to download an installer doesn't mean anything about that application's compatibility with the OS of the machine it was downloaded to.



    I've not once made such a statement. You should know better.
    Forgive me but I thought the following from your post above implied as much.

    "Golly, GoodGuy. Wouldn't someone who has had to rely on GMM on a long, critical basis already know this? Any possible way they could not know this?"

    So I guess there is a way they could not know because I didn't.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Forgive me but I thought the following from your post above implied as much.

    "Golly, GoodGuy. Wouldn't someone who has had to rely on GMM on a long, critical basis already know this? Any possible way they could not know this?"

    So I guess there is a way they could not know because I didn't.
    Yet you won't even go anywhere near the first part of that quote of mine your referenced. Why is that?

    No implication of anyone's intelligence was made or intended. Not toward you or anyone else.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    My laptop is owned by my company but my Treo is mine. I am not going to mess with their property but I figure I can with mine. I figured I could always roll back to WM5 if I had issues that were unsurmountable but that has not been the case. I felt it was a go at your own risk and after reading for a week that most actually felt WM6 was better than WM5 I gave it a go and I am glad I did.
    Fair enough, but your company is providing the GMM server, they manage it and, I would assume, your IT department is responsible for the installation and support. Key word in your statement is "risk".

    I was not aware that my IT department determined what was pushed out to me as far as the client goes so I stand corrected. On the admin side do they have the ability to determine what my OS is and prevent if from pushing out to an unsupported ROM such as WM6 or does it just push out the latest version for the respective OS and or device? I work for a very large company and although I am likely one of few that did install the leaked OS I can't know for sure. Can they tell when the end users device asks for the download?
    They determine, in the management console, the device type and which version of the client to push. They see your device as an AT&T 750 and the current version of the AT&T 750 is WM5. It appears that since they have no control over the device, they are under the assumption that your 750 is running the currently support OS.


    My company has thousands of GMM users, I believe we had four Good servers about 2 years ago and we have grown significantly since then. My peers use a mix of devices with your software so I have no clue how many use the 750 but likely a few hundred. I don't believe we are part of the beta but would have no way of knowing. I have never even seen the servers. I am betting my company was not part of the beta because we are so conservative but again I don't know. I have read testimonials from my company on your site however in the past.
    Most of the beta customers are running limited deployments. In other words, not (nor would I) rolling 5.0 to their entire installation, but typically a group of users.

    Also GG, I would be happy to PM you my contact information and discuss with you. (maybe I work for the same company as Conekkted...) I think these questions go well beyond what the readers of this forum care to see or hear.
    Certainly.
  16.    #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Yet you won't even go anywhere near the first part of that quote of mine your referenced. Why is that?

    No implication of anyone's intelligence was made or intended. Not toward you or anyone else.
    Are you talking about this quote, "You don't make this errant assumption on your desktop/laptop, do you? Again, the ability to download an installer doesn't mean anything about that application's compatibility with the OS of the machine it was downloaded to."

    As I stated I was under the impression that when the the site asked me if I wanted to install GMM for PPC 6.0 that it was permissable. I did not know there was something called an installer that my IT department configured to install certain versions of the GMM software to different devices. I thought that when I clicked "install" that it downloaded the latest version for the end users OS--either WM POS or whatever. I did not know that somebody manually controls this.

    When I ditched my 650 and went to the 750 a year ago I recall giving my IT department my new IMEI but nothing else. Then when I installed the leaked ROM I didn't notify anybody I just clicked on the Get Good icon and input my PIN which never expires. GMM 4.9 installed fine and off I went.

    I got defensive with you because I thought you were implying I was a dope for not knowing something. If I misunderstood your post I apologize.

    Although I have been frustrated over the delay of WM6 I have tried to avoid bashing anybody. I did not come up with this theory about the delay but the circumstances seemed very logical to me when posted by others and I started this thread--perhaps I should have titled it "Some peoples theory about the WM6 release delay!" Others made references to conspiracy theories, impact of revenues and vendors/partners which I might have jumped in on but never started (as far as I know anyway). I got defensive when I felt I was being attacked and attacked back--what can I say.

    If you never intended to imply I lacked some basic intelligence as you say above then I misread you and I apologize--but when I read the above I felt otherwise.

    This is a fantastic site with terrific support from thousands 750 users and admins. I feel it the best resource out there to trouble shoot, fix problems, learn what is going on in the Treo community and commiserate at times. I don't think it helps when it transitions into personal attacks.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  17.    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post


    They determine, in the management console, the device type and which version of the client to push. They see your device as an AT&T 750 and the current version of the AT&T 750 is WM5. It appears that since they have no control over the device, they are under the assumption that your 750 is running the currently support OS.

    So if I understand you correctly, if the WM6 AT&T release precedes your release of 5.0 then my IT department will see my install request as coming from a 750 and then be able to warn or prevent me from installing on the device if I have upgraded. If that is the case I can't argue in anyway with your logic. And once again (albeit after way too much posting) I have learned something else from this site.

    Also, might I suggest that if AT&T does release WM6 before your release that GMM either send directly to all users, or at least to our admins an email that they can forward warning everyone one of us to hold off on the ROM upgrade until after you release GMM 5.0

    By the way if you do give me your contact information I will call you with all my GMM issues...
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    If you never intended to imply I lacked some basic intelligence as you say above then I misread you and I apologize--but when I read the above I felt otherwise.
    It was not my intention to attack you and I apologize if it appeared otherwise. It was a blanket statement which harkened back to Page-2 of this thread where I stated that this non-problem with GMM is an IT dept problem, not a market problem and not an end-user problem.

    This is a fantastic site with terrific support from thousands 750 users and admins. I feel it the best resource out there to trouble shoot, fix problems, learn what is going on in the Treo community and commiserate at times. I don't think it helps when it transitions into personal attacks.
    This is a very good resource for Treo owners. It also does not help when the same speculative misgivings about an application are continually repeated ad nauseum. To be fair, there were/are a couple of posters who continued to open the door to unfounded speculation who fed off your honest inquiries. Such treatment of the forum does not contribute to anyone.
  19. #159  
    If you believe in coincidences and the tooth fairy, you can go ahead and believe the delay in WM6 has no relationship to GMM5. So it will just be a big coincidence that the entire rest of the world has WM6, but ATT will release it shortly after the deployment of GMM5.

    Oh, and it will be delivered by Santa.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by insidr View Post
    If you believe in coincidences and the tooth fairy, you can go ahead and believe the delay in WM6 has no relationship to GMM5. So it will just be a big coincidence that the entire rest of the world has WM6, but ATT will release it shortly after the deployment of GMM5.

    Oh, and it will be delivered by Santa.
    More credence would be given to an argument that the delay has been caused by Sprite Backup since they have a Palm & US-carrier relationship in supplying their full backup application. Coincidentally, their product was just updated and certified for WM6 4 days ago.

    Your train left the station about an hour ago.

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