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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Taylor, your suggestion might make sense to some out there but I don't give the average user as much credit as you do. Again, I think you have to eliminate most of the people who post here because they read and do research before they take a step (sometimes) but the other 99% of the users out there are in for trouble if GMM 5.0 is released post WM6.
    Not the average user. The IT department that does it for their employees.
    They will have tested WM6 with GMM before deploying it to their install base and in the process the would not have even gone that far because it's very clear that WM6 is not supported.

    I gone back and forth with you and Issider on this point but I maintain that you can make it clear at the point of download that GMM is not yet supported and people aren't too dumb to read the message. I think if they're smart enough to find the download page and figure out how to download and install it, they're smart enough to read the notice as long as it's clear.
    You believe the reverse and I guess we just have to leave it at that. We respectfully just disagree or simply have our own tainted reasons for believing what we do LOL .
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    I don't mean to drill this in to the ground but you've got me confused. GMM isn't pre-installed on the ROM, it's an OTA download link.
    What seems to be the bug up some people's azz is if these 750s are in an IT-managed environment. Because some gestapo-type IT managers will deny the sky is blue until they say it's blue, they are having a hissy-fit over this concern that any end-users make the mistake of downloading GMM until IT wants them to have it. Afterall, how many times have we had to read about all the mega-billions these orgs contribute to AT&T?

    As for regular end-users without IT support, __it happens. The distinction, however, is that this 'issue' doesn't amount to a hill of beans where either group of users are concerned.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    You are confusing incompatible with unsupported. There are numerous (as you have seen) cases of people running GMM with WM6, however, as you stated, we do not support it

    Responsibility? For your thoughts that GMM is holding AT&T hostage when Cingular has never had a reputation of releasing updates timely, nor has MSFT for that matter. For announcing that we do not support and brand new OS with an application that was not designed for that OS? Which is it?



    Who was on the grassy knoll? The conspiracy theories here are amazing.
    1. I used it. It was awful. I erased it. I'm using my 680 now in spite of all its flaws. You don't support it because you know it doesn't work properly.

    2. Not a hostage issue. It is the job of any decent business partner to have their app ready when an upgrade is ready. You got the specs and the toolkit well in advance. Your dev guys just didn't get the job done. It happens. Your software is touted as the best mobile solution, and I happen to agree. It's just not the best for WM6 and it's holding up the parade.

    3. Conspiracy theory? Hah. If they can fake landing a man on the moon, why can't we get an email app that works in WM6?

    4. Good: You offer a valid perspective in an ideal world where there are no conflicting priorities and hidden agendas. My first and last rule to live by is: Follow the money; you'll get the right answer faster. Since there is no money in it for Palm, ATT to release, they're content to wait till the GoodGuys get their jobs done. And, by the way, I think it's the right decision.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by insidr View Post
    4. Good: You offer a valid perspective in an ideal world where there are no conflicting priorities and hidden agendas. My first and last rule to live by is: Follow the money; you'll get the right answer faster. Since there is no money in it for Palm, ATT to release, they're content to wait till the GoodGuys get their jobs done. And, by the way, I think it's the right decision.
    What is this? The New York Shell-Game of Reasoning? Before, it was all about the value of the Good-AT&T relationship [which can be easily validated via Cingular/AT&T's annual reports if you actually care to 'follow the money']. While you make up your mind, I'll get a refill of popcorn.
  5. #85  
    L2S:

    I've used every combination of OS (Palm OS, WinCE, WM2003, WM5, WM6, Blackberry) with many email systems (BBC, GMM Intellysync, Exch.) in all kinds of combinations. It's what I do. The reasons WHY a company does something are for these forums to speculate and complain about. The only thing that matters to me is: Does it work as it's supposed to? Does it make my life more complicated (buggy) or easier?

    I have access to all the OSs. I tweak them to suit my needs. My need in an email app is dependability and stability. I hate the way GMM works on the Palm OS (but it works when it doesn't crash the Treo). WM5 is so bad, I can't blame the Good people for that. WM6 is a terrific OS, and I'd rather wait a while for Good to get it right than for it to be released now. GMM 4.9 on WM6 is a disappointment. Being optimistic, I'm hoping GMM5 will work correctly.

    Having said all that, I have more optimism than confidence in Good. Their cavalier attitude about the bugs in the PalmOS app don't make me feel very good about the prospects. But I can hope, and am willing to wait. It's still the best solution for my needs.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    LOL. You make it sound like AT&T has logic behind their decisions. They've held things up for less which is why we all believe they'd do it for GMM.

    But I'll take your word for it that this is not the reason. Actually I'm relieved and very glad. This means it may not be delayed at all, yet still on track to release in a few weeks.

    Well at least I can hope.
    Let me clarify that it is strictly my opinion and I don't have any additional insight into AT&T's decision making.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by insidr View Post
    2. Not a hostage issue. It is the job of any decent business partner to have their app ready when an upgrade is ready. You got the specs and the toolkit well in advance. Your dev guys just didn't get the job done. It happens. Your software is touted as the best mobile solution, and I happen to agree. It's just not the best for WM6 and it's holding up the parade.
    You are making a very broad assumption as to the relationship between AT&T and Good.

    3. Conspiracy theory? Hah. If they can fake landing a man on the moon, why can't we get an email app that works in WM6?
    Good point!
    4. Good: You offer a valid perspective in an ideal world where there are no conflicting priorities and hidden agendas. My first and last rule to live by is: Follow the money; you'll get the right answer faster. Since there is no money in it for Palm, ATT to release, they're content to wait till the GoodGuys get their jobs done. And, by the way, I think it's the right decision.

    Actually, I think there is money in it for Palm. There are users out there who want WM6 now. Each day that the release is delayed, is one step closer to users ditching their device and moving to a non-Palm device and is one-day closer to new device(s), running WM6, being released. I think Palm has a great deal more invested in get the upgrade out than you do. Again, a matter of opinion.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    What is this? The New York Shell-Game of Reasoning? Before, it was all about the value of the Good-AT&T relationship [which can be easily validated via Cingular/AT&T's annual reports if you actually care to 'follow the money'].
    Please do follow the money and show me the line in the AT&T/Cing report where Good is listed. Being the Good data plan is a grand total of $5 more per month than the unlimited data plan, you are going to have to show me a HUGE number of GMM users (that are on the correct data plan, by the way) that would have an effect on AT&T's bottom line. According to AT&T, in Q2 2007, they earned $29.5 Billion. Let's, for argument sake, say there are 100,000 GMM users that are on the correct Good Data Plan. If all 100,000 GMM users dropped Good, while I as a Good employee would hate it, the overall revenue affect on AT&T, is $1.5 million. When compared to $30 billion, that is a rounding error.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    Please do follow the money and show me the line in the AT&T/Cing report where Good is listed. Being the Good data plan is a grand total of $5 more per month than the unlimited data plan, you are going to have to show me a HUGE number of GMM users (that are on the correct data plan, by the way) that would have an effect on AT&T's bottom line. According to AT&T, in Q2 2007, they earned $29.5 Billion. Let's, for argument sake, say there are 100,000 GMM users that are on the correct Good Data Plan. If all 100,000 GMM users dropped Good, while I as a Good employee would hate it, the overall revenue affect on AT&T, is $1.5 million. When compared to $30 billion, that is a rounding error.
    It was insidr/conekkted's arguments earlier in this thread that the reason why WM6 for the 750 hadn't been released by AT&T was because AT&T wouldn't jeopardize the mega-sums of cash which are the result of the Good/AT&T relationship. I didn't buy their argument at that time, nor do I buy their new argument du jour. Since insidr had stated that he believes that following the money brings about the real answer the quickest, I was merely challenging him to actually check the facts and do the math which he had not done previously.

    Just as you accurately illustrated, the 1.5M in Good/AT&T revenues is petty cash by AT&T corporate standards. Unless there is a corp-to-corp agreement stipulating that AT&T will not offer a version of WM device incompatible with GMM, there is no realistic rationale why this delay in the WM6 release exists.
  10.    #90  
    I still think the reason is simply they don't want to release a software upgrade that if installed by everybody would cripple a device that could be running GMM. Forget about the money, what about the PRPRPR $issues$ $if$ $some$ $corporate$ $exec$. $goes$ $home$ $and$ $upgrades$ $his$ $device$ $to$ $WM6$ $and$ $then$ $his$ $email$ $quits$ $working$ $because$ $it$ $is$ $not$ $compatible$.

    The arguments in this thread are fun to read but I read posts from a guy named Insidr that appears to have some knowledge regarding AT&T's plans and he says GMM is the hold up. What else could it be if WM6 has been released to millions in several other countries and we have not read of any major issues. Keep in mind several posters in this forum are in Europe and they would report issues.

    Doesn't it make sense that with Palm and Windows based in the U.S. that they would like to see the release happen here? The 750 WM6 combo seems to work elsewhere and those of us running the leaked WM6 are not having any issues to speak of so why not here?

    Again, I say GMM 5.0 comes out before WM6 is released by AT&T--probably a week or so so that all the IT departments can push out the new version to their users because this could take a while (I know my IT dept. will at least not be nearly as concerned as we are).

    GG, I think you make an excellent argument that the delay is not financially driven--at least in the short term, but maybe they feel some sense of responsibilty/loyalty to their customer base that clicked on the "Get Good" icon the last time around when they took their 750 out of the box some time ago....
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  11. #91  
    While the debate here is fun and interesting, all we can do is sit and wait. Time will tell. And I am pretty sure our theory will get a good testing, because if history tells us anything, it is that Good will not release 5.0 on time. They are still regression testing issues from the beta feedback (yes, I too was surprised to hear that they actually do QA). That means that the ATT WM6 upgrade has even more time to be released and prove that they weren't waiting on GMM 5.0. Happy waiting!
    Treo 750 - Cingular/ATT
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    The GetGood icon goes to a webpage that is get.good.com. You can go to it from any browser, not just handheld browsers. It doesn't go anywhere near your company's Good server.
    Are you saying that after the installer package is downloaded from get.good.com that the subsequent OTA setup does not then go to your company's server and get a particular version pushed out to you?

    The install is a one-two punch from Good and from your internal servers.
    Treo 750 - Cingular/ATT
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by conekkted View Post
    Are you saying that after the installer package is downloaded from get.good.com that the subsequent OTA setup does not then go to your company's server and get a particular version pushed out to you?

    The install is a one-two punch from Good and from your internal servers.
    No, that is not what I am saying, as evidenced by what I said.


    The GetGood icon goes to a webpage that is get.good.com. You can go to it from any browser, not just handheld browsers. It doesn't go anywhere near your company's Good server.
    I was referring to where the GetGood icon goes. Anyone can download the installer package, whether you have GMM within your organization or not. If your company is not running GMM, it obviously does nothing since the first step is entering your email and PIN number. If you are running GMM, the admin determines what version of the client software goes out, per what you said. My point is, and always has been that the reasons posted in this thread trying to point to Good as the reason for a delayed OS release are ludicrous:

    Money - Not near enough involved for AT&T to even have a concern
    Crippling Users - There are many, many more users of the device that are not using GMM than those that are. Yes, some backlash, but not nearly what they are seeing from the non-GMM users that are being stalled.
    Short Cut - This is a URL that does nothing. It is just like a bookmark in the browser.
    Carrier Relations-We have relationships with Sprint, Verizon and Cingular. Verizon released the Moto Q9, which is a Motorola phone that runs WM6 and it isn't supported under our current release. Believe me, I hear about that everyday.
    Last edited by GoodGuy; 09/19/2007 at 08:21 AM.
  14. #94  
    Understood. So let's be perfectly clear. You are saying that without a doubt, unequivocally, the WM6 upgrade launch for ATT is not at all tied to GMM 5.0's release in any way?
    Treo 750 - Cingular/ATT
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by conekkted View Post
    Understood. So let's be perfectly clear. You are saying that without a doubt, unequivocally, the WM6 upgrade launch for ATT is not at all tied to GMM 5.0's release in any way?
    C'mon, man. First off, if it was, I am not in the need to know to have that information. If it wasn't, I am not in the need to know to have that information. Can you say, unequivocally, that it IS tied to GMM? Of course not.

    This entire thread is pure conjecture and speculation. I have stated that, IMO, the reasons presented do not make sense saying GMM, a very minor subset of 750 users, would hold up a software release. You, and others, seem to think, for a variety of reasons, that it is. WM6 devices as well as upgrades, have been released by several carriers internationally as well as domestic, the Q9, T-Mobile Dash, Vodaphone 750, and several HTC devices. I just feel that to point the finger at a single vendor for a software when the carrier(s) has a history of delayed releases and updates is somewhat silly.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    C'mon, man. First off, if it was, I am not in the need to know to have that information. If it wasn't, I am not in the need to know to have that information. Can you say, unequivocally, that it IS tied to GMM? Of course not.
    The only difference between the 2 main schools of thought is that there is unsubstantiated conjecture and there is reasoned, substantiated consideration. Including yours, GoodGuy, the latter has certainly been a welcome breath of fresh air.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    First off, if it was, I am not in the need to know to have that information.
    Thanks. I just wanted to clear that up.
    Treo 750 - Cingular/ATT
  18.    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    C'mon, man. First off, if it was, I am not in the need to know to have that information. If it wasn't, I am not in the need to know to have that information. Can you say, unequivocally, that it IS tied to GMM? Of course not.

    This entire thread is pure conjecture and speculation. I have stated that, IMO, the reasons presented do not make sense saying GMM, a very minor subset of 750 users, would hold up a software release. You, and others, seem to think, for a variety of reasons, that it is. WM6 devices as well as upgrades, have been released by several carriers internationally as well as domestic, the Q9, T-Mobile Dash, Vodaphone 750, and several HTC devices. I just feel that to point the finger at a single vendor for a software when the carrier(s) has a history of delayed releases and updates is somewhat silly.
    GG, did any of those devics you mention above that run on WM6 ever have a "Get Good" icon included with their initial WM5 release when they came out? If that is the case then I guess I have to declare you the winner here. However, if they are either all new devices preloaded with WM6 or devices that offered upgrades to WM6 but did NOT ever have a link to GMM's service included in their initial offering then I think my point still stands.

    Do you believe AT&T wants to release a software upgrade together with a warning that says not to download it if you still want to use GMM?--I think your answer is yes but personally I don't think they want to. I think somebody at AT&T high enough up in the organization would (hopefully) view this as abandoning a segment of their customers who originally bought their device in order to use GMM--like I did.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  19. #99  
    I personally do not care if the GetGood ships on the device. It has caused more harm than good (no pun intended) as individuals who buy the device that don't have GMM see the icon, they do some cursory research, then download the installer and call us asking for a PIN number and I have to explain, "I know the icon was there, but it is a corporate email solution".

    I see your point re: AT&T thinking, however, I maintain the fact that there are far more (dramatically so) 750's out there not running GMM than there are those that are. Yes, those that are running GMM are obviously in the corporate sector, however, the number is miniscule when compared to the entire population of 750's.

    BTW, the Q9 does have the GetGood icon on it.
  20. #100  
    You guys are way off. The price of tea in China is influencing this delay. Crystal clear to me!
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