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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    Interesting indeed....I would take that as a good sign regarding release of 5.0.

    XDA runs full version or Smartphone edition of WM6?
    Sorry for the confusion. I got the complete WM6 Professional ROM (AT&T branded) from the XDA developer site.... It has worked with the version of GMM I note above without any issues at all.
  2. #62  
    If an IT dept/contractor can't handle the deployment of a newly compatible version of GMM for WM6 after the device has been released, it should have its contract shredded for gross incompetence.
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by MHR View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. I got the complete WM6 Professional ROM (AT&T branded) from the XDA developer site.... It has worked with the version of GMM I note above without any issues at all.
    Just curious do you have the "suggest words when entering text" option enabled in the Input section of the settings? My GMM works fine now that I have that disabled but it was practically unusable with this feature enabled. Incidentally it worked fine in WM5 with this option checked. GMM still autocorrects from its own dictionary but I don't have the benefit of the WM6 dictionary.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  4. #64  
    Regarding upgrading to the leaked ROM's:

    I've seen no mentions of people having problems while doing the upgrades which result in bricking the phones. Seems like this is a good thing that I am not hearing such comments. But are there documented cases of people bricking their phones?

    Also, is it possible to load the WM5 ROM back after upgrading to WM6?

    Thanks
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    The GetGood icon goes to a webpage that is get.good.com. You can go to it from any browser, not just handheld browsers. It doesn't go anywhere near your company's Good server. Notice when you go there via a regular desktop browser, the statement "Welcome to get.good.com. get.good.com is for over-the-air provisioning of Good Technology's software. Your handheld type is not supported at this time." If you go via a Palm browser, it knows the OS and only shows the Palm Client download. It knows the OS. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense that we could sense WM6 devices and say it isn't supported? Of course it would.
    If one has WM5 on the Treo running Good. Then they upgrade to WM6. They go to get GMM OTA and are told it's incompatible, you've just taken away existing support for the product.
    At least this is the logic that insidr has been defending in his argument against my post.

    I personally agree with you, I'm just explaining what lead people to this conclusion.

    WM6 for the Treo was released in NZ wasn't it? And Palm did say others were following in Sept. Sept. is merley half over at this point so I'm still holding my breath for a Sept. release.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    Just curious do you have the "suggest words when entering text" option enabled in the Input section of the settings? My GMM works fine now that I have that disabled but it was practically unusable with this feature enabled. Incidentally it worked fine in WM5 with this option checked. GMM still autocorrects from its own dictionary but I don't have the benefit of the WM6 dictionary.
    No, I don't and I never have. I hate that feature. But never having may be part of the reason I've never had an issue.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    If one has WM5 on the Treo running Good. Then they upgrade to WM6. They go to get GMM OTA and are told it's incompatible, you've just taken away existing support for the product.
    At least this is the logic that insidr has been defending in his argument against my post.
    That logic, IMO, doesn't hold water. If one has a Treo running WM5 and Good and they upgrade to WM6, then THEY have taken away support for the product, not us since we never supported WM6.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    That logic, IMO, doesn't hold water. If one has a Treo running WM5 and Good and they upgrade to WM6, then THEY have taken away support for the product, not us since we never supported WM6.
    THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say all along (Post 44 & 47)
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    For all your rants against Good, I can't say I am surprised that you are sadly misinformed.

    The GetGood icon goes to a webpage that is get.good.com. You can go to it from any browser, not just handheld browsers. It doesn't go anywhere near your company's Good server. Notice when you go there via a regular desktop browser, the statement "Welcome to get.good.com. get.good.com is for over-the-air provisioning of Good Technology's software. Your handheld type is not supported at this time." If you go via a Palm browser, it knows the OS and only shows the Palm Client download. It knows the OS. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense that we could sense WM6 devices and say it isn't supported? Of course it would.

    Secondly, why would AT&T hold off on release of a Microsoft product when that very product has what many say is a product that is just as good as GMM (discussion for another thread)? You honestly think that Motorola/Good has more stroke than Microsoft? So, AT&T says to the Redmond guys "ya know, we really would rather hold off releasing your operating system because we are waiting for a competitive product of EAS to support it, even though EAS works on it just fine." With all of your conspiracy theories, none hold water because all of them imply that MOT/Good has enough power over Palm, AT&T and MSFT to cause a delay.

    AT&T has been reselling GMM for a little over a year. How in the WORLD did they make money and survive before the relationship was established?
    As to your first point about the download. I assume you are correct as to where the actual download comes from when it is Over the Air (OTA). I assumed this came from your website and not my company's web site but was not sure. However, when I clicked on the link my experience was very different. It actually asked if I wanted to download GMM for WM6 PPC--I never saw "your handheld is not supported" message you state should occur. Is this a new add?

    And I completely disagree with your logic on your second point. What you fail to realize (and this has been pointed out by others in this thread) is that although it is technically feasible for AT&T to release an OS upgrade without the Get Good icon it is not a practical route to take. There is no way they are going to release this upgrade and then tell their customers that they can not download it if they are using GMM because it is not supported by its developer on this new OS and they have not released a compatible version as of yet. As others have stated how do you release an upgrade that could render someone's existing critical application unsupportable, thus cripple an existing device?

    If you were talking about a new device I agree that AT&T could just remove the "Get Good" icon from the ROM and problem solved. But don't tell me AT&T wants to warn huge numbers of corporate clients with substantial revenue at stake that they can't upgrade their device to the latest OS release or they will render their email solution useless. This is not an argument about whether MOT/Good or Microsoft has more "stroke" with AT&T rather it is a situation regarding usability and practicality of a mobile device and the best way to deal with it.

    Whether GMM or EAS is better is irrelevant. Personally, as I have stated before I am happy with GMM 4.9. Sure I am looking forward to 5.0 and the added features--I am just frustrated that WM6, which is a tremendous enhancement to a Treo 750 (this includes amont other things, the first official HSDPA enhancement which was touted when the device was released approximately one year ago) is not an option for me and thousands of other GMM users because the current version of GMM is unsupported (in practice it seems like it works fine for me on WM6 other than the word completion bug, but I guess that is irrelevant as far as this discussion goes).

    Finally, because AT&T/Cingular has partnered with GMM for some time in what must be a decent relationship, based on the GMM data plan offered by AT&T and the inclusion of the Get Good icon in the leaked ROM one has to think this application (GMM) can't be ignored by AT&T on this new upgrade.

    I still say emphatically that GMM 5.0 is released before AT&T releases WM6--and I will come back and apologize to all--if that is worth anything--if I am proved wrong!
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by MHR View Post
    No, I don't and I never have. I hate that feature. But never having may be part of the reason I've never had an issue.
    MHR, please do me a favor and try it and see if GMM works the same. You can always turn it off. I am very curious because I doubt this is a conflict with anything else running on my 750 and want to see if others have this experience. I understand you hate it but it would help me as far as trouble shooting goes (because GMM is unable/unwilling to offer a suggestion or acknowledgement of this issue I need to rely on peers like you).

    If you have the same experience I will post in the GMM forum and tell others about the workaround until 5.0 is released--whenever that might be.

    Thanks
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    And I completely disagree with your logic on your second point. What you fail to realize (and this has been pointed out by others in this thread) is that although it is technically feasible for AT&T to release an OS upgrade without the Get Good icon it is not a practical route to take. There is no way they are going to release this upgrade and then tell their customers that they can not download it if they are using GMM because it is not supported by its developer on this new OS and they have not released a compatible version as of yet. As others have stated how do you release an upgrade that could render someone's existing critical application unsupportable, thus cripple an existing device?
    Or course they can (tell them not to upgrade yet.) It happens all of the time. You don't upgrade your OS if you know the apps you need are not supported in the new OS. It has been no different for decades.

    It's Simple:
    "New WM6 upgrade for Treo 750 users."
    " Good Mobile Mail not supported*"
    "*Good Mobile Mail to be supported in future release of GMM."
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    That logic, IMO, doesn't hold water. If one has a Treo running WM5 and Good and they upgrade to WM6, then THEY have taken away support for the product, not us since we never supported WM6.
    The circularity of that reasoning has my head spinning. But...

    Everyone here (including GoodGuy) is making very valid arguments. There are a few facts that are undeniable: 1: The ATT ROM is pretty much done. Lots of us are using it with great success. (I have also used the Aussie 3 ROM and it is indistinguishable except for all the extra ATT stuff--including GMM link); 2: GMM is, according to their own web site incompatible with WM6; 3: You can install GMM onto a WM6 device. I have done it, as have others in this forum. There is no version checking that stops it. 4: If I have a problem as an end-user, Good doesn't support me, so they don't care. It's Palm, ATT or my IT department that get the call (Try to contact Good for support, I dare ya.) 5: Therefore, it's not in Palm or ATT's best interest to launch a product that's going to trigger numerous calls from their power base.

    GoodGuy: I've used your program extensively and I like it. Compared to Intellisync or Blackberry Connect, it's better. But you need to look inside your walls and take responsibility where you've deserved it. I'm looking forward to using it on WM6 because your Palm OS application is so badly done. It hijacks my calendar and contacts, it locks up my 680 on a regular basis. But it sucks on WM5 (to a great extent because WM5 sucks), and you admit you won't support 4.9 on WM6. So get your dev guys to pull their heads out of their holes.

    The last point...Palm or ATT don't care about getting the WM6 upgrade out. They're not making any money and it will cost them a bundle. So they're not about to walk away from the fees they get from Good by crippling the OS and making the GMM product inoperative. They'd never be dumb enough to walk away from the little $$ opportunity in this upgrade.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    Or course they can (tell them not to upgrade yet.) It happens all of the time. You don't upgrade your OS if you know the apps you need are not supported in the new OS. It has been no different for decades.

    It's Simple:
    "New WM6 upgrade for Treo 750 users."
    " Good Mobile Mail not supported*"
    "*Good Mobile Mail to be supported in future release of GMM."
    Your point is the bottom-line. Getting GMM onto WM6 750s post-release is an IT problem, which from all indications, they don't want to have to handle. Life's tough.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by lifes2short View Post
    Your point is the bottom-line. Getting GMM onto WM6 750s post-release is an IT problem, which from all indications, they don't want to have to handle. Life's tough.
    I don't mean to drill this in to the ground but you've got me confused. GMM isn't pre-installed on the ROM, it's an OTA download link.

    If GMM was supported today and WM6 was released:
    You download WM6.
    You download GMM OTA from the link.
    You set it up.

    If GMM is supported post-release and WM6 was released today:
    You don't download WM6, you keep using WM5 with GMM.
    GMM is released
    You download WM6
    You download GMM OTA from the link.
    You set it up.

    Either way it's the exact same series of steps. Am I mistaken?

    This sounds like a very simple problem that has been over complicated.
  15. #75  
    Taylor:

    You are right, but there's a third (and more likely) scenario

    If GMM is supported post-release and WM6 was released today:
    You download WM6, you try to use WM6 with GMM.
    It sucks.
    You call Good. They say call Palm. Palm says call ATT. Att says call your IT dept. Your IT dept says you never should have done WM6 upgrade.
    Meanwhile, you're not getting your email.
    You've made 4 calls, been on hold for hours. And your email is still dysfunctional.
    You're looking for a tall building to jump off.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post

    And I completely disagree with your logic on your second point. What you fail to realize (and this has been pointed out by others in this thread) is that although it is technically feasible for AT&T to release an OS upgrade without the Get Good icon it is not a practical route to take. There is no way they are going to release this upgrade and then tell their customers that they can not download it if they are using GMM because it is not supported by its developer on this new OS and they have not released a compatible version as of yet. As others have stated how do you release an upgrade that could render someone's existing critical application unsupportable, thus cripple an existing device?
    What about the people that do not run GMM, which is the majority of the Treo owners out there? They click on the GetGood icon in WM6 or WM5, they download a client and guess what, it doesn't work. This affects many more people than releasing an OS that is not supported by a particular application.

    If you were talking about a new device I agree that AT&T could just remove the "Get Good" icon from the ROM and problem solved. But don't tell me AT&T wants to warn huge numbers of corporate clients with substantial revenue at stake that they can't upgrade their device to the latest OS release or they will render their email solution useless. This is not an argument about whether MOT/Good or Microsoft has more "stroke" with AT&T rather it is a situation regarding usability and practicality of a mobile device and the best way to deal with it.
    Again, you are making assumptions. While GMM has a large install base, it is made up of everything from Treo 600's up to Moto Q9's and everything in between on 30-some different carriers. I would hazard a guess that the number of Cingular devices that the upgrade affects vs. the number of those users that are on GMM is miniscule.

    Whether GMM or EAS is better is irrelevant. Personally, as I have stated before I am happy with GMM 4.9. Sure I am looking forward to 5.0 and the added features--I am just frustrated that WM6, which is a tremendous enhancement to a Treo 750 (this includes amont other things, the first official HSDPA enhancement which was touted when the device was released approximately one year ago) is not an option for me and thousands of other GMM users because the current version of GMM is unsupported (in practice it seems like it works fine for me on WM6 other than the word completion bug, but I guess that is irrelevant as far as this discussion goes).
    Again, not an EAS vs GMM discussion. My point was that there is an acceptable (to many, it would seem) wireless email product that can be used in probably 90% of the Exchange installations out there that would affect many more users than GMM users.

    Finally, because AT&T/Cingular has partnered with GMM for some time in what must be a decent relationship, based on the GMM data plan offered by AT&T and the inclusion of the Get Good icon in the leaked ROM one has to think this application (GMM) can't be ignored by AT&T on this new upgrade.
    The relationship with the Good Data Plan is going on a little over a year. The GetGood icon has been coming out on devices long before there was a GDP.

    I still say emphatically that GMM 5.0 is released before AT&T releases WM6--and I will come back and apologize to all--if that is worth anything--if I am proved wrong!
    While I understand people's thought process and while I appreciate the fact that you feel a single application could cause one of the single largest carriers in the world to drag their feet, I still think it is so far out of reach to think that GMM is the cause for the delay in release.
  17. #77  
    The circularity of that reasoning has my head spinning. But...

    Everyone here (including GoodGuy) is making very valid arguments. There are a few facts that are undeniable: 1: The ATT ROM is pretty much done. Lots of us are using it with great success. (I have also used the Aussie 3 ROM and it is indistinguishable except for all the extra ATT stuff--including GMM link); 2: GMM is, according to their own web site incompatible with WM6; 3: You can install GMM onto a WM6 device. I have done it, as have others in this forum. There is no version checking that stops it. 4: If I have a problem as an end-user, Good doesn't support me, so they don't care. It's Palm, ATT or my IT department that get the call (Try to contact Good for support, I dare ya.) 5: Therefore, it's not in Palm or ATT's best interest to launch a product that's going to trigger numerous calls from their power base.
    You are confusing incompatible with unsupported. There are numerous (as you have seen) cases of people running GMM with WM6, however, as you stated, we do not support it.

    GoodGuy: I've used your program extensively and I like it. Compared to Intellisync or Blackberry Connect, it's better. But you need to look inside your walls and take responsibility where you've deserved it. I'm looking forward to using it on WM6 because your Palm OS application is so badly done. It hijacks my calendar and contacts, it locks up my 680 on a regular basis. But it sucks on WM5 (to a great extent because WM5 sucks), and you admit you won't support 4.9 on WM6. So get your dev guys to pull their heads out of their holes.
    Responsibility? For your thoughts that GMM is holding AT&T hostage when Cingular has never had a reputation of releasing updates timely, nor has MSFT for that matter. For announcing that we do not support and brand new OS with an application that was not designed for that OS? Which is it?

    The last point...Palm or ATT don't care about getting the WM6 upgrade out. They're not making any money and it will cost them a bundle. So they're not about to walk away from the fees they get from Good by crippling the OS and making the GMM product inoperative. They'd never be dumb enough to walk away from the little $$ opportunity in this upgrade.
    Who was on the grassy knoll? The conspiracy theories here are amazing.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    I don't mean to drill this in to the ground but you've got me confused. GMM isn't pre-installed on the ROM, it's an OTA download link.

    If GMM was supported today and WM6 was released:
    You download WM6.
    You download GMM OTA from the link.
    You set it up.

    If GMM is supported post-release and WM6 was released today:
    You don't download WM6, you keep using WM5 with GMM.
    GMM is released
    You download WM6
    You download GMM OTA from the link.
    You set it up.

    Either way it's the exact same series of steps. Am I mistaken?

    This sounds like a very simple problem that has been over complicated.
    You're exactly right. Maybe my wording was confusing, but your summation is perfectly correct. It is a simple scenario, despite all the apologia.
  19.    #79  
    Taylor and Insidr,

    Good points both of you.

    IMO a pda/ppc user is very different than a PC user with an OS like Windows XP. A PC user knows that upgrading an OS such as Windows XP to Vista is a big undertaking and might result in compatibility issues AND cost money so they hold off, but a free mobile phone upgrade is a different story. If the average pda/pps user gets some annoucement that he/she can upgrade their OS for free and start enjoying significantly enhanced data speed, the ability to charge his/her phone via usb while connected to their pc (thus eliminating the need for a ac charger) better call quality, enhanced bluetooth, etc. then that user is going to grab that download right away and upgrade ASAP.

    Then that person just finds out that they can no longer use their corporate email application on their Treo and all of Insidr's help calls start.

    Taylor, your suggestion might make sense to some out there but I don't give the average user as much credit as you do. Again, I think you have to eliminate most of the people who post here because they read and do research before they take a step (sometimes) but the other 99% of the users out there are in for trouble if GMM 5.0 is released post WM6.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy View Post
    While I understand people's thought process and while I appreciate the fact that you feel a single application could cause one of the single largest carriers in the world to drag their feet, I still think it is so far out of reach to think that GMM is the cause for the delay in release.
    LOL. You make it sound like AT&T has logic behind their decisions. They've held things up for less which is why we all believe they'd do it for GMM.

    But I'll take your word for it that this is not the reason. Actually I'm relieved and very glad. This means it may not be delayed at all, yet still on track to release in a few weeks.

    Well at least I can hope.
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