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  1.    #1  
    I've searched and searched but I can't find any info on this. Maybe it just can be done.

    I can turn the "radio" off, and the screen off, but is the device off?

    I mean technically when on a flight during take off and landing the device is supposed to be off-off. Flight mode would apply to radio off pda on right?

    Thanks,

    Scho
  2. maevro's Avatar
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    #2  
    There is no "off/on" on this phone, which I do not like. The off is holding off the 'red' button and it says, "Goodbye" and while the phone is not actually off, you cannot get any data or voice in or out, so this is what you would use on a flight.
    When you hold the red button again, it says, "hello" which is like turning it on, but its not obviously. Pretty ghetto if you ask me.
    Palm 650 > Nokis 6682 > HTC 8125 > Nokia e62 > BB Pearl > Samsung Blackjack > HTC 8525 > Treo 750 & HTC Trinity
  3. #3  
    The easiest way to turn this sucker off is the following:

    1) Take battery cover off
    2) take battery out

    Presto, the phone is off :-)

    Seriously, all the Treo's, Windows Mobile devices etc operate the same way - it's by design as the devices run on Flash memory that allow for instant "turn on" capability...

    Someday your PC or Mac will run the same way...in which case the on off will be pulling the plug out of the wall
    Siemens S46 -> Siemens S56 -> Motorola MPx200 -> Moto v600 -> Audiovox SMT5600 -> Treo 650 -> Motorola Q (14 days) -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700w -> Treo 750
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by seaflipper View Post
    Seriously, all the Treo's, Windows Mobile devices etc operate the same way - it's by design as the devices run on Flash memory that allow for instant "turn on" capability...
    No they don't. The HTC TyTn/AT&T 8525, for example, has a power off.
    You press and hold the power button, it fully powers down. Powering up is a full boot up. Press the power button is simply the standby mode, but holding it shuts off the whole device.
    This is in addition to being able to power off/on the phone (radio) and leave the PDA on (and in standby.)

    Palm clearly did not implement a power off mode because no treo does and because it's really not necessary since you can take out the battery, and because you'll always want instant on access (as you mention.)

    This goes back to the no-so distant past before flash memory. As recent as the Treo 600 the PDA did not have non volitile memory, so if it lost power, it lost all memory, thus had to stay continually powered.
  5. #5  
    This is, to use a technical term, idiotic. I fly 100's of times a year and on each flight they clearly state that you must power down any device with a battery or power light. This does not mean that you simply must power down the radio or display portions of the device.

    So, in short, to stay in compliance with airline regulations, you need to remove the battery from the phone. How in the world did this device get out the door without a power button? Do Palm employees not fly on commercial airlines?

    As much as I like this phone, it has some very serious design flaws which are some of the most basic features of a phone:

    - on/off button
    - sufficiently loud ringer
    - vibration mode that is strong enough to be felt in the places you normally keep a device of this size (not your pants pocket)
    - decent battery life

    ugh...
    Last edited by AustinBear; 07/19/2007 at 09:06 AM. Reason: punctuation
  6. #6  
    My Blackjack has a power button as well.

    After nearly 24 hours of use on my new Treo, the lack of an on/off button is probably my biggest gripe.
  7. #7  
    Personally I agree with seaflipper. I do not think it's a problem for the flights... It's like iPod and all such products: as long as the battery is in, it's still "on" to keep the settings (or to wake up...).

    When the Palm is powered off (phone off) it's like a electronic watch.. That could give you the time and has a "notification system" on to bring you reminders.

    I had a power on/off button on my trinity but I personally never used it in the real life. When I wanted to be quiet, I just turned on a profile on the phone (with phoneAlarm) to shut down all the notifications, calls, wifi, bluetooth, GPS...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharedworld View Post
    Personally I agree with seaflipper. I do not think it's a problem for the flights...
    +1

    Anyone ever removed the battery from their digital watch during takeoff and landing? Or a calculator?
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharedworld View Post
    Personally I agree with seaflipper. I do not think it's a problem for the flights... It's like iPod and all such products: as long as the battery is in, it's still "on" to keep the settings (or to wake up...).

    When the Palm is powered off (phone off) it's like a electronic watch.. That could give you the time and has a "notification system" on to bring you reminders.

    I had a power on/off button on my trinity but I personally never used it in the real life. When I wanted to be quiet, I just turned on a profile on the phone (with phoneAlarm) to shut down all the notifications, calls, wifi, bluetooth, GPS...
    I'll have to continue to disagree. When you hold down the power button it turns off the radio. When you then hold the option button and power button it locks the keyboard. However, then if the green call button is hit, the display shows and the phone beeps or vibrates or both.

    This level of 'on' is expressly forbiden by most carriers and is in violation of their contract of carriage conditions. This is a serious issue, IMHO.

    I'm going to call Palm and see if there is another answer I'm missing.

    In the meantime, does anyone have any other options?

    Thanks,

    ab
  10. #10  
    I called Palm and they said there is no reason to completely power off the device without removing the battery.

    Further, the representative stated that they are aware a device must be fully powered down on commercial airflight takeoff and landing and removing the battery is the only way to accomplish this.

    Unbelievable....
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharedworld View Post
    Personally I agree with seaflipper. I do not think it's a problem for the flights... It's like iPod and all such products: as long as the battery is in, it's still "on" to keep the settings (or to wake up...).

    When I turn off my iPod and lock the device, I cannot power it on or get a display of any kind. When I power off the Palm radio and 'lock' the keyboard, it does not really lock all buttons. I can click the call answer button and the display lights-up, the phone beeps and/or vibrates.

    Call me stubborn, but this still seems different to me...
    Last edited by AustinBear; 07/19/2007 at 12:16 PM. Reason: missed word
  12. #12  
    How bout a watch?
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  13. #13  
    At the risk of sounding idiotic, could someone tell me why "radio off" isn't good enough on an airplane? I've done it before, and didn't think twice about it.

    What if you bring an ipod with you? How would you power that off?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattycerts View Post
    At the risk of sounding idiotic, could someone tell me why "radio off" isn't good enough on an airplane? I've done it before, and didn't think twice about it.

    What if you bring an ipod with you? How would you power that off?
    It is good enough. Full power down is not necessary and the FAA does not require it and airlines do not ask for you do it. Only one time one flight attendant on United did say "not airplane mode, but all the way off" but that was that flight attendant and most likely because he didn't want to see people playing with the devices. I've never heard that on United or any other airline since.

    Plenty of pilots and flight attendants have Treos, I've seen them, and they aren't bothered by the 'standby' mode which has been in the palm family since the very first palm pilot.

    The only reason the phone needs to be shut off is because it causes problems with cell towers on the ground, it has nothing to do with RF interference and the cockpit. It's also more of a precautionary measure just in case someone brings some ridiculous device one time and causes a problem with the... whatever.

    Only within the last 2-3 years since flash memory was available in these smart phones has it even been possible to do a full power off and retain your data. Having said that, Palm start designing a 0-power off mode like the HTC PDAs have.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    It is good enough. Full power down is not necessary and the FAA does not require it and airlines do not ask for you do it.
    I know I'm probably belaboring the issue. However, unfortunately, this is not quite correct. Or maybe better put, this issue is simply not that cut and dry. It is true that the FAA does not require it. However, it leaves the airlines and, more specifically, the inflight crew to determine their policy.

    It sounds like you've been lucky or simply don't travel that much. I did about 150 flights last year and can assure you it is an issue. Any light or sound from a device, during take off or landing, will very likely 'set-off' a flight attendant. I've been told that 'flight mode' is not good enough (diff device in this case) for take-off and landing.

    The problem is this - the Palm requires you to either hide the device or simply make sure you don't accidentally (by hitting the 'call' button) cause the device to beep, vibrate or light-up during take of or landing, which could have you incurr the wrath of the flight crew who basically have complete power to do what they want (and unfortunately abuse it). I've seen lots and lots of people berated for little things.

    And, no, a watch is not the same. Why? Because in the subjective eyes of the crew they're not. Make sense? No? Does it matter? No. We're at their mercy.

    So, the solution is simple. They should just add a 0-power button or add a lock that actually/totally locks the phone so nothing can happen.

    Oh, wait. Why don't they just change it so when you turn the phone/radio off and set the key lock the pressing the 'call' button won't do anything since you don't need to answer the phone with the phone/radio off anyway.

    Duhhh!!!!!!! Why did that take me six posts to figure out the easy software based solution to our existing hardware.
    Last edited by AustinBear; 07/19/2007 at 11:13 PM. Reason: formatting, forgotten word(s)
  16. #16  
    Or, flick the little, covenient plastic switch so no noises come from the phone at all...

    Any flight attendant who tells you that's not good enough simply doesn't know about treo's and how they work. What can u do....
  17. #17  
    The reason that powering off the radio doesn't silence the phone is because it's also a PDA. What if I want calendar reminders and alarms to sound while the phone radio is turned off like a normal non-phone PDA would? Even the Blackberry operates the exact same way, but te Blackberry has a power off mode as well
    But I question how fully powered down it is because it can still turn itself on at a scheduked time. So there's at least some clock funtion running.
    The Treo has a silence switch on top that is unique to the Treo. I think this is more important than a full power off for any and all quiet situations.
    You're rigt. I only fly about 12-20 times a year. But I've never had a problem turning off the radio, flipping the swith, and puting it my cary on. Even if I forgot to to use the silence switch that's no different than forgetting to turn it off.
    Forcing you to hide it? It shouldn't be out in the first place during take off, and later in the fligt you can take it back out and use it with the radio off. These days every flight attendant has seen PDA phones at least 10,000 times soi's not a mysterious thing that they won't understand.
    I still agree that a power of switch wouldn't hurt, but really it's not a big deal for flights as you might think. If so you have some really bad luck.
    But now tat the iPhone is out by the (soon) millions, the Treo is the least of flight attendant's problems. Not only can you not turn off the iphone, but you can't even remve the battery!!!
    So now who's idiotic? (caugh)Apple(caugh)
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinBear View Post
    I'll have to continue to disagree. When you hold down the power button it turns off the radio. When you then hold the option button and power button it locks the keyboard. However, then if the green call button is hit, the display shows and the phone beeps or vibrates or both.

    This level of 'on' is expressly forbiden by most carriers and is in violation of their contract of carriage conditions. This is a serious issue, IMHO.

    I'm going to call Palm and see if there is another answer I'm missing.

    In the meantime, does anyone have any other options?

    Thanks,

    ab
    If the green button is what disturbs you, I'm sure there is ways to disable it, via script for example... But what I want to say is that even if the green button lights up the device, it's like you have 2 power on button on the device... That's all!

    But I agree with you that a power off button wont hurt anyone...
  19. #19  
    I tend to agree with those who say a radio off shutdown is plenty; that said, for the price we pay for these things, it ought to have an 'off' button. I don't think that's asking too much.
  20. #20  
    Most electronic devices, even those with an on-off switch, never really totallly shut down. My digital camera, for example, always maintains power. All the switch does is shut off the LCD and lock the controls. Many cell phones are the same way: notice how the clock display never goes out?

    A PDA needs to maintain power to the internal clock to keep track of scheduled events. How would it do that with an OFF button that really cut power? The most it would do is make sure the screen stays off and lock the controls, but that's no different, from an interferance standpoint, from what we have now.

    As far as airplanes, give me a break. Suppose it had a real "off" switch. What would you do while it was off? Stick it in your pocket or briefcase, right? So shut off the radio, hit the mute switch, and do the same thing. No stewardess is going to complain if it's in your pocket.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
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