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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hannip View Post
    sjacks, can you please drop your script until we work out a better arrangment with flightstats.com. I suggest that nobody use this version.
    I took down the script, but I am still unsure why this group has an issue, in fact I think it's important that tools can be developed that sit on applications already developed, the same as there is sharing here.

    All I am doing is taking data in the public domain (they do not ask the user to agree to terms of use) and displaying it in a different format. The site the data is coming from is not a revenue site, there is no advertising on it, they are giving the information away, this was their choice.

    I offered to have the app flash "Data Provided by Flightstats.com" before the data was displayed, but that was not adequate, they wanted me to create a proxy server, I was not going to do that for a free script. In fact if anyone looked at the script you would see that the prompt page for the Airline suggests to the user to go to flightstats.com to find the airline data. So I am pushing to them.

    This is all much ado over nothing. Had I just posted this script and not asked anyone else to get involved, no one would have had a problem with it. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

    JSACKS<<
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsacks View Post
    ...

    This is all much ado over nothing. Had I just posted this script and not asked anyone else to get involved, no one would have had a problem with it. ...
    JSACKS<<
    I agree, but for a different reason. You came here for help. We obliged, by exploring the possibilities. A representative from FlightStats.com even offered assistance. As coders, we may not have complained that you executed a method that we hinted at, but what you "scraped" was what more than one of us suggested as a "fall-back" method -- when all other avenues failed. I bet if you asked if anyone else was willing to host a proxy server, we'd be closer to an XML solution.

    Your one-on-one dealings with FlightStats.com is what I personally had an issue with, and not that you used my code and techniques and standards as a template.

    I urge you to take the time to re-read the early messages in this thread... then re-read your messages to/from FlightStats.com. Had they not been contacted directly and overtly, then had a nose thumbed at them, then you are indeed correct... no one would have complained.

    -- JDC
  3. #23  
    Whoa, tensions been running kinda high in the forum lately... maybe we should all cut back on the red meat a little, lol.

    It's been suggested we have a sticky FAQ, which I think we should put together (and I don't mean the royal we ). A few pointers/links on MortScript and a few common rules of etiquette for distributing, sharing, reusing code might be in order. Anyone want to take a crack at this?

    Z.
  4. #24  
    I think everyone is different in this regard. I personally encourage anyone to steal, hack, enhance, scriptjack or anything else they want to do with my scripts. I've encouraged people to do so since the inception of Fun with MortScript thread. But if someone hasn't said so they should get permission from the author first. It's hard to control though since scripts are by nature open source.

    I don't want to hear it Sling
  5. #25  
    If I borrow someone's code, I give them props.

    BTW, the big issue here was not ScriptJacking (nice coinage, tho).

    We need *guidance* on how to approach and deal with commercial owners of data such that the end result is a symbiotic relationship.

    -- JDC
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hannip View Post
    I think everyone is different in this regard. I personally encourage anyone to steal, hack, enhance, scriptjack or anything else they want to do with my scripts. I've encouraged people to do so since the inception of Fun with MortScript thread. But if someone hasn't said so they should get permission from the author first. It's hard to control though since scripts are by nature open source.

    I don't want to hear it Sling
    For sure, the "line" is different with everybody. I don't care what anybody says, everyone on this forum has borrowed code, ideas, tweaks from someone else at some point. And hannip yes you've been scriptjacked more than anyone else . With scripts you gotta expect it, I don't think there is a need to overcontrol or overmoderate, but I still think there are some rules of common courtesy that we could post as guidelines, especially since the forum has grown quite a bit and there are alot of new users.

    There's always bound to be contention because for every script out there, there are always another two in progress that overlap in some way (like I said, check out PPL and then you guys can really start branching out!).

    For me, the only rule I would ask is that people don't copy code verbatim and call it their own, UNLESS you ask first, but even then I wouldn't really get that upset. You're right it's more important that people have some fun, learn some new things and hopefully make their Treo experience a little more productive.

    Z.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hannip View Post
    I think everyone is different in this regard. I personally encourage anyone to steal, hack, enhance, scriptjack or anything else they want to do with my scripts. I've encouraged people to do so since the inception of Fun with MortScript thread. But if someone hasn't said so they should get permission from the author first. It's hard to control though since scripts are by nature open source.
    I too put this stuff out expecting it to get used again, in my script I even say:

    #You may modify this script as long as you give credit to the author
    #Distributed freely without any warrentee expressed or otherwise
    #Use at your own risk

    This is pretty standard, if you don't want you stuff used compile it or don't publish it.

    Lead, Follow or Get out of the way!
    JSACKS<<
  8. #28  
    That's a good idea. I'll add that to the rules thread I just created.
  9. #29  
    Ok now I get it...hannip keeps me away from all the good stuff.This thread was hiding from my sight
  10. #30  
    we use plain English in here... you would need a translator.

  11. #31  
    Hi all,

    I work for FlightStats and wanted to post an update to keep everyone in the loop. First of all, I've had many conversations offline and somewhat prefer that as I feel more free to talk about company things than on a public form. Perhaps though that wasn't the best approach, so I'll try keeping the whole group up to date via this forum.

    Also, I wanted to say that I appreciate the script being removed for now. I am not interested in folks scraping our site for many reasons. Contrary to what has been said here our mobile site is a commercial venture in which we are monetizing, there are terms and conditions on the site that prohibit scraping, and our information is not free. Unlike other sites that just use FAA data, we have a lot of data feeds and some of those feeds cost money on a transactional basis. I have better control over our costs via apis. From a publisher perspective, I want to encourage non-commercial use of our information, but I want it go through more approved channels. Everyone can win if we work together and cooperation can spawn more opportunities.

    I had hoped that our existing API would work fine for this group. Unfortunately it does have some security aspects that seemed to have got in the way. I was hoping someone could write a proxy service to get around this, but noone wanted to. Its been a learning experience for me and it has already made an impact on our approach in the future. The longer term solutions will take a while to get in place though.

    I've been kicking around some other ideas though that will work for you and that I'm also interested in for other endeavors. I think I've settled on publishing an RSS feed for a given flight. You specify airline, flight number, and perhaps departure airport code and we return what we know at that moment along with a link for more details. I'm willing to give this a try and will have something up early next week on our production servers. I'm not an RSS expert so have a few things to learn about what is technically allowed to be returned in the content. But it looks like this will be the approach.

    I'll leave it to all of you to implement useful things with it. In return, I do ask that you give FlightStats credit, link to our site in your applications that use the data, and be kind to our system resources.

    Anyway, thanks for the patience.

    Scott Hopkins
  12. #32  
    That sounds awesome Scott! It's good to see more and more companies providing web services for 3rd party use. It just benefits everyone in the long run. I'll be looking forward to the applications that come out of this arrangement.
  13. #33  
    Our RSS is up and running now.

    http://mobile.flightstats.com/go/Mob...irportCode=LAX

    The departureAirportCode is optional and used to specify which segment on a multiple segment flight you are interested in. Please use the link provided to link to our mobile site, and give us some credit in your applications.

    Thanks again for the patience.
  14. #34  
    Thanks Scott! jsacks you're up!
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  15.    #35  
    I am rethinking this based on the RSS data, since the <item> segment is not fully defined for each sub segment <fh:x> I need a different method to parse out the data, a true XML file would have been much easier since each field would have been in it's own envelope. I am going to build a standard field parser based on XML and an Array of data in a field to handle this that can be used in any subsequent script as a called routine. I don't want to make this script flightstats.com centric, look for something in a couple of days.

    JSACKS<<
    Need a Condo in Killington, VT: http://vtcondo.jsacks.com
  16. #36  
    Take a look at what I've got for Pocket SportsCenter as it's in a similar vein
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  17. #37  
    Dang, just when I thought I could use a script, since my cousin is arriving from Florida Monday, I find out the script is not available. Oh well, mobile.flightstats.com should be sufficient for now.
  18.    #38  
    I have done about 90% of this and won't have time to complete it for a while (needs about 2-3 hours to finish). I started a few weeks ago, but just havn't gotten back to it (too damn busy with real work).

    The flight selection interface is done
    The INI file work is complete
    The parsing of the RSS data is done (This was the bear), the data is in an array with the field name and values
    I have dealt with the multiple segment issue, the data is in an array to be displayed

    This application now displays all the data received but I have not fully worked out the interface for the display, I set this up so the user can control what fields they want displayed, but work needs to be done to parse the data from the INI and build the display line.

    If you are interested post and we can discuss what needs to be done and I can e-mail the script to.

    JSACKS<<
  19. #39  
    Cool. I'ld be interested, but I'm not that great of a developer. Plus I just got my Slingbox Pro, so I've been playing with it.
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