Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 142
  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Palm has had four years to solve that problem. Whole operating systems have been written from scratch in less time.
    Palm SOLD the OS, remember? They couldn't modify it. Thats why they bought the rights back recently.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Palm has had four years to solve that problem. Whole operating systems have been written from scratch in less time.
    Palm did solve that problem by going with WM5.
  3. #103  
    Some of us don't consider WM5 to be a solution.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Some of us don't consider WM5 to be a solution.
    Indeed. A few of us even consider it to be part of the problem.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlepat View Post
    Palm SOLD the OS, remember? They couldn't modify it. Thats why they bought the rights back recently.
    As I said, whole operating systems have been written from scratch in less time. In any case, bad business decisions do not excuse technical problems. We do not much care how they got there.
  6. #106  
    ALP has been written, but who knows where that is going.

    Palm just bought the OS back about a month ago.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlepat View Post
    ALP has been written, but who knows where that is going.

    Palm just bought the OS back about a month ago.
    The second statement is true but the first is arguable. I have no evidence on which to conclude that either is relevant. I do not even have one of EC's famous "hints" and rumors. [Only products that are shipping count. This is true for all vendors. However, because of its hints and rumors, it is doubly true for Palm.]
  8. #108  
    An article was released about a month ago, saying that ALP has been released to manufacturers for testing and software development. I believe I read it here actually, on TC's home page. And they also confirmed it plans to be backwards compatible with most POS apps. As far as the relevance, well the point is to have a Palm OS that can work in a true 3G environment, so I guess we'll see. No way to know for sure right now

    Here's some info

    http://www.access-company.com/news/p...106_hiker.html
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlepat View Post
    An article was released about a month ago, saying that ALP has been released to manufacturers for testing and software development. I believe I read it here actually, on TC's home page. And they also confirmed it plans to be backwards compatible with most POS apps. As far as the relevance, well the point is to have a Palm OS that can work in a true 3G environment, so I guess we'll see. No way to know for sure right now

    Here's some info

    http://www.access-company.com/news/p...106_hiker.html
    I wish that you were right but that is not what the press release says. You had better read it again. They contrast what they released to an operating system. They released an "application framework." I am not even sure what that is but I assume that it is a description of the user and application interfaces. It is something less than a software developers toolkit and a great deal less than an operating system.
  10. #110  
    Actualy I assumed they could only release this after they built and tested the OS. My bad.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Some of us don't consider WM5 to be a solution.
    When the "problem" is not 3G capable as I was referencing in my post, then yes, WM5 is a solution that works. Your opinion of the OS in general is irrelevant in that case.
  12. #112  
    A bit snappy in that reply aren't we? I'm glad you think my opinion is irrevelvant. I'll keep in mind you are always right.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    When the "problem" is not 3G capable as I was referencing in my post, then yes, WM5 is a solution that works. Your opinion of the OS in general is irrelevant in that case.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Yup, that's right you're in charge.

    Phone, music/video content, web, email, and the little extras that tie into that. Seems like the stuff almost everyone does.

    What is this functionality you love to harp on? Integration with exchange or Windows products? You seriously expect that on a phone from Apple?

    All this right now is speculation. How many iPods did they sell? How many Treo have sold? I suspect one year from now there will be more iPhones than Treos. That is the only measure of success, not your list of priorities.
    I will be more than shocked if your prediction is true. But who knows?

    I do think that while you believe us iPhone "haters/doubters" overestimate/overempahsize the business functionalities of the Treo, I think you severely underestimate power business users (still Treo's largest market by far) use of Doc management, emailing, etc. It's probably somewhere in the middle. Plus, if the phone really is going to be as expensive as stated ($500-$600 with 2-yr contract), I don't see the sales skyrocketing to overtake a market leader in smartphones in 12 months. Who knows? Stranger things have happened. But be wary that success in one market (MP3s) does not necessarily translate to success in all markets.

    The lack of 3rd party apps is still a disappointing decision, and I can't really see it changing within the next 12 months to be where I think it needs to be. A market of 3rd party developers continuously searching for ways to create better software because they are in competition with each other.

    Moppet52
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    A bit snappy in that reply aren't we? I'm glad you think my opinion is irrevelvant. I'll keep in mind you are always right.
    wow, I was afraid that you'd think that. Get out of defensive mode and re-read the post. I said that the ONLY thing I was referencing is the problem that Palm OS can't handle UMTS/HSDPA. I said the solution to THAT problem (and ONLY that problem) was Palm using WM5. Your opinion on WM5 is really irrelevant in that case because it's a fact - WM5 can support UMTS/HSDPA, but Palm OS can't. One solution for Palm's inability to support UMTS was WM5. Your point is that WM5 isn't a solution to your device needs, and that's fine. But that is wholly irrelevant to the point I'm making about WM5 being a solution for the Palm OS's inability to support UMTS, and that is my ONLY point.

    I said it like 3x in that post, I hope you can see now that it wasn't a personal attack against you, nor was it an attempt for me to put my head in the clouds thinking I'm "always right."

    I hope you understand, I don't think I can make my point any simpler.
  15. #115  
    OK, point taken. However, switching to an OS that some of think is significantly more clunky than the previous OS to get high speed data capability still isn't much of a solution, it's more like desperation.

    I know many like WM5, but some certainly don't. In addition people are forced to leave behind apps they are using just to get the high speed capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    wow, I was afraid that you'd think that. Get out of defensive mode and re-read the post. I said that the ONLY thing I was referencing is the problem that Palm OS can't handle UMTS/HSDPA. I said the solution to THAT problem (and ONLY that problem) was Palm using WM5. Your opinion on WM5 is really irrelevant in that case because it's a fact - WM5 can support UMTS/HSDPA, but Palm OS can't. One solution for Palm's inability to support UMTS was WM5. Your point is that WM5 isn't a solution to your device needs, and that's fine. But that is wholly irrelevant to the point I'm making about WM5 being a solution for the Palm OS's inability to support UMTS, and that is my ONLY point.

    I said it like 3x in that post, I hope you can see now that it wasn't a personal attack against you, nor was it an attempt for me to put my head in the clouds thinking I'm "always right."

    I hope you understand, I don't think I can make my point any simpler.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  16. #116  
    I agree with most of what you have said. What I don't really get is the focus on many of these posts that the iPhone can't do everything their Treo does so it's doomed to failure.

    Who said that the market was the Treo owner? I certainly don't think that. Anyone who thinks they are trying to get the business market is delusional. I will get it immediately, but it's my phone, not my work's phone.

    I think there are many (Mac owning) Treo users who will dump the Treo for it. But there are many more Treo owners who won't. It's pretty clear they are aiming for people thinking of a smartphone or people thinking of an iPod to buy this rather than existing owners. Will they own the smartphone market with this alone? No, but there will be more models later. Will they become a player? I think so. Will they become the leader? Who knows, but considering they have only shown this one model they certainly have gottten alot more attention than Palm or even Nokia could by showing off one model.

    Arguements about how it sucks for business are nice but meaningless right now. That's not who they are trying to sell it to. As for third party software we will have to wait and see. My predication is that will happen, but the software will have to be approved by Apple and probably will be available through iTunes only. But this is something none of us know for sure right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by moppet52 View Post
    I will be more than shocked if your prediction is true. But who knows?

    I do think that while you believe us iPhone "haters/doubters" overestimate/overempahsize the business functionalities of the Treo, I think you severely underestimate power business users (still Treo's largest market by far) use of Doc management, emailing, etc. It's probably somewhere in the middle. Plus, if the phone really is going to be as expensive as stated ($500-$600 with 2-yr contract), I don't see the sales skyrocketing to overtake a market leader in smartphones in 12 months. Who knows? Stranger things have happened. But be wary that success in one market (MP3s) does not necessarily translate to success in all markets.

    The lack of 3rd party apps is still a disappointing decision, and I can't really see it changing within the next 12 months to be where I think it needs to be. A market of 3rd party developers continuously searching for ways to create better software because they are in competition with each other.

    Moppet52
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    OK, point taken. However, switching to an OS that some of think is significantly more clunky than the previous OS to get high speed data capability still isn't much of a solution, it's more like desperation.

    I know many like WM5, but some certainly don't. In addition people are forced to leave behind apps they are using just to get the high speed capability.
    Like I said, the only thing that I was trying to make clear is that for the SOLE issue of 3G, WM5 was the solution. I know that you're not the biggest fan of WM5, and that's 100% fine by me, it's definitely not the best OS for everyone. I'm not saying that WM5 is a solution for everyone.

    You might think its desperation, I think its evolution. I've owned quite a few Palm OS devices in the past, and I think POS is clunky. Out of the box, PalmOS might be easier to use, sure. But after adding different apps, WM5 is just so much easier to use. To me, one big reason is the Today screen, especially with the 750. Making phone calls, looking up contacts, launching programs, viewing/creating appointments and tasks, even searching for things on Google can be done from the same screen. And that's just the stuff that I use. You can have other Today plugins that always display/update the weather, show stock quotes, even RSS feeds. The Today screen, IMO, is one of the most useful, efficient, and advanced features on a Smartphone today. That means no extra clicks or taps that POS users always praise about their OS. On PalmOS treos, the home screen is either the launcher or the phone app. Let's say the phone app because its a bit more powerful. You can launch apps from it and dial speed dials. But that's about it. You can view one upcoming appointment, but you can't view tasks. You can't create new appointments or tasks without launching the appropriate program. You sure can't do a google search from the phone app. Sure, it only takes a couple extra clicks to do these things on PalmOS treos, but aren't those same couple of extra clicks the very argument that many POS fans use to condemn WM5? From my experience in reading forums for the past 7yrs, you bet it is.

    Its all about personal preference. Your useage patterns may be completely different and that's totally cool, as long as you find the device for you
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by moppet52 View Post
    I think you severely underestimate power business users (still Treo's largest market by far) use of Doc management, emailing, etc. Moppet52
    is that true? i'd love to see the demographic studies if they are available...this whole notion of business user, power user, soccer mom, he/she who has no idea what the thing does besides act as a "cool looking phone" has always intrigued me. hec, a battery doesn't even last a day for me, that hardly makes me a power user, but i think some actually define themselves this way!

    please forward the statistics and source if they are immediately available to you. thanks in advance.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  19. #119  
    If WM5 works for people that's great. Personally I think it's the biggest UI mess on any mobile device. It's definitely customizable but there are so many base features that should be there missing for a multi-tasking UI. Why on earth isn't there a built-in app manager/switcher (no the memory setting app doesn't count). There's a long list I could go on about, but that's not the point. Maybe everyone but me sees WM5 as an advance, but I don't from a usability perspective. I've used devices on and off since the first iPaq with Pocket PC. The UI problems back with that release are still in WM5. Palm OS was great in it's day, but they've lost their way. I don't think ALP will help and they STILL haven't released the UI so we don't know what it will look like. That's one reason I'm glad to see the iPhone, it will raise the UI bar for devices that follow it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Like I said, the only thing that I was trying to make clear is that for the SOLE issue of 3G, WM5 was the solution. I know that you're not the biggest fan of WM5, and that's 100% fine by me, it's definitely not the best OS for everyone. I'm not saying that WM5 is a solution for everyone.

    You might think its desperation, I think its evolution. I've owned quite a few Palm OS devices in the past, and I think POS is clunky. Out of the box, PalmOS might be easier to use, sure. But after adding different apps, WM5 is just so much easier to use. To me, one big reason is the Today screen, especially with the 750. Making phone calls, looking up contacts, launching programs, viewing/creating appointments and tasks, even searching for things on Google can be done from the same screen. And that's just the stuff that I use. You can have other Today plugins that always display/update the weather, show stock quotes, even RSS feeds. The Today screen, IMO, is one of the most useful, efficient, and advanced features on a Smartphone today. That means no extra clicks or taps that POS users always praise about their OS. On PalmOS treos, the home screen is either the launcher or the phone app. Let's say the phone app because its a bit more powerful. You can launch apps from it and dial speed dials. But that's about it. You can view one upcoming appointment, but you can't view tasks. You can't create new appointments or tasks without launching the appropriate program. You sure can't do a google search from the phone app. Sure, it only takes a couple extra clicks to do these things on PalmOS treos, but aren't those same couple of extra clicks the very argument that many POS fans use to condemn WM5? From my experience in reading forums for the past 7yrs, you bet it is.

    Its all about personal preference. Your useage patterns may be completely different and that's totally cool, as long as you find the device for you
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Why on earth isn't there a built-in app manager/switcher (no the memory setting app doesn't count).
    You know the start menu is the task switcher, dont you? You can place your common apps there, the top row contains the 5 most recent used apps, and due the the way multi-tasking and 'smart minimize 'works those recently used apps will be the ones in memory also.

    You just have to embrace how the designers intended it to work, and forget about managing memory.

    Surur
Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions