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  1.    #1  
    curious to know if the operating system is the motivating factor (only factor?) for those having chose one over the other. i owned a Treo 680 for a short while and wasn't satisfied with the age-old operating system and battery life. i've owned both Palm OS and WM5 (ppc) and WM (smart?) and prefer the full version of WM so much more. the one feature that i liked on the T680 was its bright screen, i have a T700 in a drawer and am familiar with its less sharp resolution. is there anything else that wows you or sways you one way or the other? what drove you to purchase (or wait for) the T750v (or upcoming with Cingular)?

    what was most important for you?

    regards
  2. #2  
    Well, I'm still trying to decide. But the biggest disappointment on the 680 for me is the phone quality. It's really "fuzzy" compared to other phones, the 750 just destroys it in voice quality.

    The 750 has faster data (good) but I'm seeing just terrible latency on UMTS on Cingular. It's really really bad compared to EVDO on Verizon. I was beginning to think it's the 750 until read about the same complaints on Howardforums about the Blackjack. So it seems like it's maybe a Cingular issue. Latency on EDGE for both the 680 and 750 is better.

    The other big issue for me with compatibility with the bluetooth in my car. The 680 works, the 750 works with lots of bugs. Basically have to soft reset the 750 everytime I get in the car. Sounds like the Blackjack has similar issues so it sounds like a Microsoft problem.

    I know that the 700w doesn't work well and has other problems. I had a 700p and grew frustrated with the lags on it.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3. Manaz101's Avatar
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    #3  
    I went with the 750 just because of the OS. I LOVE my 650's speed and response, but as far as the OS went hated the fact it lagged in innovations for the future. I wanted something that could in a sense grown with me in a year or two. With so many new phones coming out these days and the prices not necessarily coming down, i'm looking for a phone as more of an investment, something that can stand the test of time with me (in a sense).
  4.    #4  
    thanks for the responses so far. Bcaslis, i understand what you mean about the EDGE/EVDO speeds. i owned a 700wx as well and you could really notice the difference in speeds with the EDGE network being much more slow. i do enjoy internet browsing so it can wear on you. the bluetooth/automobile issue sounds like a frustrating one but i haven't made the "bluetooth jump" just yet but i'm sure i will sooner than later.

    i'm truly interested in hearing your thoughts (if any) on the operating systems and what kind of role they play in your decision making. for the time that i owned the T600 and T650 i found the Palm OS to work just fine but always thought it was too boring and not straight forward...less intelligent maybe? regardless, once the WM devices made it to market i decided to jump over and they seemed to work better for me. so the T680 is released and i thought it would make a great secondary device but the OS failed to impress and we all know about the battery sitch which seems to be improving for some. but having read your thoughts and opinions on the 750 it doesn't seem to please you any more than the 680 even if you prefer the WM5 op system. i love the concept of GSM and i appreciate the antenna-less design of the new 680/750. i suppose it would behoove me to wait until one of the domestic carriers finally offer the 750 so to make a better judgement call on that device.

    thoughts?
  5. #5  
    I think OS and apps are intertwined on a small mobile device. I think WM5 is "clunky" in operation compared to Palm OS. Really, what moron thought up putting a start menu on a handheld device.

    However the bigger problem is that (with the exception of contacts) the included apps are a piece of junk on WM5. Everything is either too hard to use, menus and other pieces take up half the screen resolution, or functions are just missing. Want to schedule IMAP email? Sorry you retrieve up to every 60 minutes, no option to retrieve only certain times or days. What to delete email on the device but not the server? Sorry no can do. Geez, even Versamail can do this. Don't get me started on the calendar. It hasn't gotten better sine 2002, and it was hopeless junk then. What to format your storage card? Sorry no ability built-in for that. Buy a third party tool.

    On Palm OS, in addition to good basic apps included, you get the best apps in their categories available, PocketTunes, Kinoma, Google Maps, etc.. I've not seen one app on WM5 that is better than an Palm OS apps (although Agenda One is very nice). If I could get UMTS (and I'm sure EVDO-A when the time comes) on Palm OS, there would be no question to get it instead. But right now the faster connectivity options seems to be WM5 only.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  6.    #6  
    appreciate the thoughts. thanks for making the time.
  7. #7  
    I had the 680 for a week...returned it. It's probably due to the fact that i "grew up" using window's powered devices so it's more comfortable for me to use than the Palm OS. I do like the fact that i can multi-task on WM5 whereas i notice that on the POS i had to wait for that function to execute before i go onto something else.
    www.luxozine.com
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I think OS and apps are intertwined on a small mobile device. I think WM5 is "clunky" in operation compared to Palm OS. Really, what moron thought up putting a start menu on a handheld device.

    However the bigger problem is that (with the exception of contacts) the included apps are a piece of junk on WM5. Everything is either too hard to use, menus and other pieces take up half the screen resolution, or functions are just missing. Want to schedule IMAP email? Sorry you retrieve up to every 60 minutes, no option to retrieve only certain times or days. What to delete email on the device but not the server? Sorry no can do. Geez, even Versamail can do this. Don't get me started on the calendar. It hasn't gotten better sine 2002, and it was hopeless junk then. What to format your storage card? Sorry no ability built-in for that. Buy a third party tool.

    On Palm OS, in addition to good basic apps included, you get the best apps in their categories available, PocketTunes, Kinoma, Google Maps, etc.. I've not seen one app on WM5 that is better than an Palm OS apps (although Agenda One is very nice). If I could get UMTS (and I'm sure EVDO-A when the time comes) on Palm OS, there would be no question to get it instead. But right now the faster connectivity options seems to be WM5 only.
    I recommend trying Live Search from Microsoft. It blows away Google maps for WM5.

    @oalvarez, what happened to the Blackberry Pearl? I thought you switched. I have thought about going back to POS in trying the 680, but that thought typically doesn't last long. I really liked using the Treo 750v. I might even go back to it. I am currently using the Cingular 8525 which is a very powerful device. I miss the Palm form factor in general. I also see delays in UMTS, but it's still better then EDGE.
    Brian McGuire
    .../600/650/8700c/700w/Moto Q/700p/Nokia E62/700wx/8525/750c/BB Pearl/Blackjack/BB 8800/BB Curve & HTC Vox S710 >>iPhone
  9. aloner's Avatar
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    #9  
    Treo 750v -> 3G and 200 (Vodafone Spain)
    Treo 680 -> GPRS and 429 (Palm Store)

    That did it for me.
  10. #10  
    I have really struggled with this choice as well. 1 year ago I was still using the Treo 600 with Palm OS of course but was on my 3rd returned device due to orange screen dots and build quality issues. In May '06 I decided to try the Cingular 8125 with WM5 because I just could not justify buying an unlocked Treo 650 with its relative unstability, etc. I decided to trial a WM5device and return to a newly upgraded GSM Palm OS Treo sometime in the future. The difference in OS familiarity was a bit strange at first but I adapted fine. I am not a user who loads up any 3rd party apps. I like to keep matters simple and I value predictable and reliable performance above all else. I just want the stuff that I need to consistently work well. I am really a very easy to please user. Paying $400 for a device that is nothing but trouble gets old and defeats the purpose of convergence.

    My 8125 is under powered (slow) but has never froze up or needed to reset ever. I have grown to like little things like how Active Synch will stay continuously in synch without having to manually hit the Hot Synch button with Palm OS. The stability and reliablilty of this device quite frankly surprised me but I still longed for the 340 x 340 high screen resolution and also missed the one handed convenience of the more phone-centric Treo.

    I ordered an unlocked 680 2 weeks ago and just love so much about the hardware of this device. It has such a good conceptual basis but I have found myself disappointed by the OS again. Remember, I have zero 3rd party apps loaded. The battery drain issue wasn't too bad for me and the improvement with use was fine until suddenly last friday eve with a full charge at bedtime, by morning it was completely drained in 7 hours! (No BT, IR, on etc.) This tells me that some kind of firmware issue may be going on. The device starting to freeze and reset by itself also about once a day starting 4 days ago. Lastly, the Hot Synch operation started causing the device to soft reset after the completion of each sync. A few times I would crash the unit just trying to open the calendar app. After a hard reset, the Hot Sync still caused a soft reset upon each completion. I reinstalled the Palm software on my PC and all was well for a day and then it started again to reset after each sync!

    I have been able to easily make the decision to return the 680 and await the release of the 750 with Cingular. I need a device that simply WORKS reliably on a consistent basis. I do realize that in the computing arena one needs to be resilient to a point and that little quirks are going to arise here and there but my thinking is after more than 2+ years experience producing devices with Palm Garnet 5.4, that this would simply not occur. I especially went into the 680 with the expectation that if this were to be the device for the mainstream masses, Palm would not dare to release something even remotely unstable and prone to hassle for even the most easy to wow user such as myself.

    I have decided to not fight it. I will use the Treo Hardware form factor but I will also use a state of the art OS software (WM5) that finally has achieved a level of predictable reliability. I am open to returning to a future Palm OS version because some of the usability features are preferred but the biggest deal breaker is that the thing just needs to work well among the core PIM apps. I am not pissed or outraged. I am simply more informed based upon my experience these past 2 weeks. Others mileage may vary. I still love the Palm OS but it needs to be developed further and soon! A device can be very pretty but the bottom line is people like me need to avoid the hassle of even being given a reason to think of doing a return like this.

    For now, it is back to my trusty 8125 as I eagerly await the WM5 750 release.

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  11. #11  
    I agree that getting something to WORK is the primary issue, everything else is secondary. My problem is that the 750v doesn't work well with my car. I know the 700w and 700wx have problems also. I've read that others are having troubles with the Blackjack also. Seems like Microsoft bluetooth doesn't work well with the BMW bluetooth.

    The 680 seems to work fine. But I can't get 3G data with it.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  12. #12  
    Isn't that just the pits. One thing works well with one OS platform and sucks on another. I just wish these tradeoffs weren't so torturously common! I still personally consider Bluetooth connectivity to be more of a luxury rather than a necessity. Bluetooth headsets in general are good but it won't stop me if someone's BMW somewhere has issues with a particular device. That's a bit remote for my needs yet it may be a very deal breaker annoyance to yourself. This may have less to do with the OS and more to do with the hardware radio used in several devices.

    Back to the core issue for me, it really is all about reliability and performance. It makes me recall the central issue among competing carrier networks whereby one can offer all of the fanciest and prettiest phone devices possible but it still comes back to coverage performance of the network. You can also have the best calling plan terms but if you can't make calls, what good does your expensive paperweight do for you?

    Fundamental execution of the basics in a consistent manner is the path to true excellence in my opinion. If I recall correctly, the original "Zen of Palm" was rooted in such an idea. Come on Palm. Get back to that reality as soon as you can.

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  13. #13  
    What's sad is that the core of the Palm OS is the same that was running on Palm devices back when I dumped my Visor Prism way back in 2000. You can go on all you want about usuability and applications but the fact of the matter is WM5 is a powerful mobile OS that can be configured to be a complex or as simple as YOU want. What's even better is that the codebase was made to expand upon, the best example being the multitude of Today screen plug-ins for WM, startmenu replacements, and task managers.

    Plus, WM offers use of A2DP, BT headset voice dialing, multitasking, all things that I have come to expect from a mobile device through the years.
    PDA Lineage: Handspring Visor Deluxe, Visor Prism, Casio EM-500, Casio E-200, HP Jornada 568, IPAQ 1910,IPAQ 4150,Ipaq 2750 (with Moto Razr V3), Imate K-Jam,Treo 750,HTC Touch Cruise,HTC Touch Diamond(US)
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmcguire View Post
    @oalvarez, what happened to the Blackberry Pearl? I thought you switched. I have thought about going back to POS in trying the 680, but that thought typically doesn't last long. I really liked using the Treo 750v. I might even go back to it. I am currently using the Cingular 8525 which is a very powerful device. I miss the Palm form factor in general. I also see delays in UMTS, but it's still better then EDGE.
    i still have the Pearl and have ZERO intentions of replacing it with the 750 or 680. i do have intentions of adding a secondary device and low and behold have decided to give the 680 (unlocked, will use a separate T-Mo SIM as opposed to switching the one out of my Pearl and having to add/remove the Blackberry data feature which the 680 will not accept) yet another try as i may have not given it a fair shake my first go around. what i like most about the Palm version is the screen resolution and the "unbranded" nature of the device; i like the flexibility that it brings. what i don't care for very much is the antiquated feel of the operating system but for a secondary device do i really care? it doesn't seem like the 750 will be offered "unbranded" anytime soon nor does it sound like it will be offered by T-Mo or Verizon so back to the 680 i go (as a secondary device). i'm convinced that the battery life will not suffice given the thousands of business related email transmissions i receive (the Pearl handles that aspect of the equation quite nicely). i don't care for the slowness of the EDGE network, but again, it would be a secondary device.

    will probably post something similar in the 680 forum.

    regards
  15. #15  
    I agree that most won't care about bluetooth with a BMW. But I expect MY phone to do it since I don't want to be fumbling to get a phone when in traffic. A stinking $50 RAZR can do this, why can't any WM5 PDA/phone do it?

    As for basics, the 750v had the phone off overnight and was supposed to sound a wakeup alarm this morning. Checked everything before going to sleep and did a soft reset for good measure. This morning no alarm, Treo dead, needed soft reset to respond again. I call that not doing the basics right. Palm OS could easily have done the same thing, but WM5 isn't the rock of stability some make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus Man View Post
    Isn't that just the pits. One thing works well with one OS platform and sucks on another. I just wish these tradeoffs weren't so torturously common! I still personally consider Bluetooth connectivity to be more of a luxury rather than a necessity. Bluetooth headsets in general are good but it won't stop me if someone's BMW somewhere has issues with a particular device. That's a bit remote for my needs yet it may be a very deal breaker annoyance to yourself. This may have less to do with the OS and more to do with the hardware radio used in several devices.

    Back to the core issue for me, it really is all about reliability and performance. It makes me recall the central issue among competing carrier networks whereby one can offer all of the fanciest and prettiest phone devices possible but it still comes back to coverage performance of the network. You can also have the best calling plan terms but if you can't make calls, what good does your expensive paperweight do for you?

    Fundamental execution of the basics in a consistent manner is the path to true excellence in my opinion. If I recall correctly, the original "Zen of Palm" was rooted in such an idea. Come on Palm. Get back to that reality as soon as you can.

    -THP
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  16.    #16  
    absolutely loved the previous posts (Bcaslis, Nautilus, JGold). i appreciate and understand your wants and needs, they're different for everyone. i don't want this to turn into why i like WM/Palm so i won't add further thought on that matter. if the 750v (with Cingular as i don't want to have to recreate the wheel buying a Vodafone one then unlocking it and then configuring it to work with T-Mo) works anything like my 700wx did then it should absolutely suffice, for me. the only thing that didn't work for me and the 700wx was the fact that it was on Sprint's network which simply is a non-starter in the area in which i live. it was the most stable of Treo devices i had owned and the 680 seems to be functioning for most in the same way. my 700w on the other hand (with my fav carrier Verizon) was the biggest hunk of junk i've ever used given the measley memory and high memory intensive software i had to have (goodlink). i've always liked the Treos but have since found other devices that meet my pure day-to-day business needs in a much more convenient and pocketable form factor (Pearl). and i too am not a 3rd party software type but can appreciate the fun and efficiency that some others might require. goodlink, blackberry, or even active sync, along with the oem software is all that i require. i am a WM person and simply feel more at home with the WM/Office type products and look. is a start button silly to some? i suppose, but the palm os doesn't even have a home screen and i think that's funny in itself. oops! i promised not to go there....

    as was said, if i could find a wm5 type 680/750 device with EVDO speeds, resolution of the 680, battery/reliability of the 700wx coupled with a carrier such as VZ or T-Mo, it would make for a great secondary device, for me.
    Last edited by oalvarez; 12/18/2006 at 07:32 PM.
  17. #17  
    bcaslis,

    In another thread, someone said the voice dialing via BT on the 750 only works for BT Headphones (dual ear) and not single ear headsets..is that accurate?
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  18. #18  
    oalvarez,

    Reading your most recent post I believe I am really on the same page with you being a MS Office business guy myself. I too have come to like the start button, etc. I am old Handspring Visor sentimentalist however and I remember well how I excitedly once spent $500 for a new color Prism + an additional $250 ($750 Total!) for the all new Visor Phone module that made my new PDA an all in one converged device. I am a Palm OS sentimentalist. At one time the Palm OS really helped me to overcome some tech phobia with its usability.

    bcaslis,

    I agree that WM5 is still quirky with some things and I am not a blind, partisan defender of MS. I like to see diversity and choice. I want all OS options to be equally stable so that a decision is not defaulted upon by necessity. I guess I am sadly just a bit spooked by how easy it was for my 680 to disappoint and also surprised at how much I don't want to have to deal with this type of thing anymore. I will leave such mischief for the early adopter, power users to have their fun with. I love the Treo Hardware with its one handed form factor that remains more phone centric than the HTC touchscreen devices. Bring on the 750. BTW, does anyone know for SURE if the upcoming GSM 750 release on Cingular will also involve a subsequent unlocked and unbranded, full price version from Palm directly?

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  19. #19  
    I haven't seen that post but it's clearly wrong. I've gotten voice dialing to work with a Jabra JX10 headset (normal single ear).

    To be honest I'm a bit amazed at some of the posts here. I've argued with someone about bluetooth voice dialing which they claimed was not supported at all on the 750v.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo View Post
    bcaslis,

    In another thread, someone said the voice dialing via BT on the 750 only works for BT Headphones (dual ear) and not single ear headsets..is that accurate?
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  20. #20  
    Didn't mean to imply that you were defending WM5 was rock solid, I was just commenting on other posts I've seen here.

    I would say that Palm OS has a tendency to reset when bad things happen, and less frequently have silent errors where things just stop working. WM5 has a tendency to have silent errors where things stop working and less frequently freezes. Which is better depends on how often it happens and your viewpoint.

    I will say I've been very disappointed in the 680's tendency to crash during hotsync. Sends like adding a new app (or new version) causes a crash in my limited testing. I'm also dismayed that the it doesn't support AAC ringtones even though the manual hints it does and the 700p did. I'm even further dismayed by the fact that the vibrate before ring and escalate ringtone options mess up unless they are used with midi sounds. If the wider audience is their target, don't they know that even a $50 RAZR does much better than this? I would have sent the d*** thing back already if it didn't work so well with my car. I might still send it back yet.

    I don't think anyone knows for sure if there will be an unlocked release for the 750. Unless Cingular is giving Palm a sweet deal, I would expect one, but probably not until Vodaphone's exclusive deal is over whenever that is (could have happened already).


    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus Man View Post
    oalvarez,

    Reading your most recent post I believe I am really on the same page with you being a MS Office business guy myself. I too have come to like the start button, etc. I am old Handspring Visor sentimentalist however and I remember well how I excitedly once spent $500 for a new color Prism + an additional $250 ($750 Total!) for the all new Visor Phone module that made my new PDA an all in one converged device. I am a Palm OS sentimentalist. At one time the Palm OS really helped me to overcome some tech phobia with its usability.

    bcaslis,

    I agree that WM5 is still quirky with some things and I am not a blind, partisan defender of MS. I like to see diversity and choice. I want all OS options to be equally stable so that a decision is not defaulted upon by necessity. I guess I am sadly just a bit spooked by how easy it was for my 680 to disappoint and also surprised at how much I don't want to have to deal with this type of thing anymore. I will leave such mischief for the early adopter, power users to have their fun with. I love the Treo Hardware with its one handed form factor that remains more phone centric than the HTC touchscreen devices. Bring on the 750. BTW, does anyone know for SURE if the upcoming GSM 750 release on Cingular will also involve a subsequent unlocked and unbranded, full price version from Palm directly?

    -THP
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
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