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  1. #21  
    You know, people say WM5 is 2 to 3 more steps than on Palm when that simply isn't true. Everyone said this and I assumed it was the case until I got a Cingular 8125, but it's all just a myth. WM5 can be just as many or few steps as Palm. In some cases palm is *1* extra step, in others WM5 is *1* extra step, depending where you are. But even the difference between the longest Way to get there (worst case scenario) to the best case scenario (mapped to a hard key) your navigation is anywhere from 6-7 clicks to 1 click on both OSs.
    People talk about the simplicity of PalmOS. The only reason it's more simple is because it doesn't have a ok/close button like WM5, which is there for multitasking. And that's usually optional and can be disregarded.

    Opening a web page:
    On Palm OS it's anywhere from 5 clicks (starting from the menu key) to 2 clicks (using a hard button, default to bookmarks view) to open a web page.
    On WM5 it's anywhere from 5 clicks (starting with the menu key) to 3 clicks (hard menu+Favorites soft menu) to open a web page.

    Opening notes:
    Palm OS is min 3 clicks (from menu key) to 2 clicks (hard key) to open a note.
    WM5 is 3 clicks (from menu key) to 2 clicks from a hard key or soft key to open a note.

    Email:
    Palm OS: 2 clicks to email, or 1 click from an email key
    WM5: 2 clicks to email, or 1 click from a hard key.

    And regarding ok/canel button. in many cases you don't have to select OK to minimize an app before going to the next one. Just like PalmOS, you just press the "Menu" button or another hard key and you're there. On WM5 that app is put in the background just like on Palm OS. And where you do have to click "OK" you'd have to do the same thing on Palm OS (such as saving a setting within a program.) The fact of the matter is most applications are the same or about 1 click difference between WM5 and PalmOS, and most functions can be shortened to a hard key for 1 press access.

    Also on WM5 the today screen has many short cuts for quick access to different things, just like on PalmOS's phone/home screen w/ shortcuts.

    It's just learning curve. Give yourself a 1 week to learn how to use the interface and figure out how to optimize your navigation. You're just not used it. The benefit to WM5 is quite frankly a much more flexible, configurable, and more powerful OS all around.

    I do have some complaints, such as the menu>connections>connections application still makes no sense to me. Also text messaging in Outlook kind of sucks after using the Treo. I'm looking forward to Palm's threaded SMS program on the 750.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  2. #22  
    I agree with some of the things you are saying. But most of the Palm OS have defaults or options that do often let you do things quicker. Some examples:

    Blazer, set bookmarks as the start, then I just scroll to the one I want and click. Still faster than IE.
    Calender: boy the WM5 one is bad. No multiple day agenda, you can only get the agenda on a single day. And yes I know about Pocket Informant, etc. I don't really want something that big and complex just for seeing my appointments.
    Email: If you use POP and/or IMAP, when you send an email it doesn't really send it. Just puts it in the outbox until the next send/receive. At least on Versamail there's an option to send immediately. No can do on WM5 unless you use an exchange server.

    There are others of course. Palm has definitely made some improvements in WM5, but many of the normal apps still lag significantly in important options.

    Not to say you shouldn't use WM5. There are some cool things. I have voice command on so I can do voice dialing when needed. This afternoon, the battery got down to 20%. The Treo was on the desk next to me and suddenly I heard "Battery is low". Pretty cool.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3. #23  
    Great post Taylor! So true.

    WM5 is so much more configurable and flexible. You even go so far as to make your device work like a Palm!

    I do have some complaints, such as the menu>connections>connections application still makes no sense to me. Also text messaging in Outlook kind of sucks after using the Treo.
    You can always put a shortcut on your today launcher (PocketPlus, iLauncher, etc) to the connection control panel.
    PDA Lineage: Handspring Visor Deluxe, Visor Prism, Casio EM-500, Casio E-200, HP Jornada 568, IPAQ 1910,IPAQ 4150,Ipaq 2750 (with Moto Razr V3), Imate K-Jam,Treo 750,HTC Touch Cruise,HTC Touch Diamond(US)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I agree with some of the things you are saying. But most of the Palm OS have defaults or options that do often let you do things quicker. Some examples:

    Blazer, set bookmarks as the start, then I just scroll to the one I want and click. Still faster than IE.
    Calender: boy the WM5 one is bad. No multiple day agenda, you can only get the agenda on a single day. And yes I know about Pocket Informant, etc. I don't really want something that big and complex just for seeing my appointments.
    Email: If you use POP and/or IMAP, when you send an email it doesn't really send it. Just puts it in the outbox until the next send/receive. At least on Versamail there's an option to send immediately. No can do on WM5 unless you use an exchange server.

    There are others of course. Palm has definitely made some improvements in WM5, but many of the normal apps still lag significantly in important options.

    Not to say you shouldn't use WM5. There are some cool things. I have voice command on so I can do voice dialing when needed. This afternoon, the battery got down to 20%. The Treo was on the desk next to me and suddenly I heard "Battery is low". Pretty cool.
    The WM5 calendar does kind of suck, I agree. And I do have some major complaints about outlook. I haven't even searched but I hope there's a better mail program out there.
    The start on bookmarks page on Blazer is kind of cool, but I really don't like the bookmarks on blazer. I never liked those little rectangles and multiple pages.
    On IE you have a normal list with folders, I like that design a whole lot more. Plus, it syncs with the mobile bookmarks folder on your desktop IE. So you can manage your bookmarks from you PC and load them on to the handheld. I always hated that you couldn't edit treo's bookmarks on the desktop.
    Also IE is way superior in so many ways. For one thing it actually USES THE CACHE. I don't know what's up with blazer. ALso IE can download several images at the same time (default 4 unless you edit the registry where blazer does one at a time which is really slow with the latency on EDGE.
    You can even use the keyboard letters as menu shortcuts (like in many palm programs) as a quicker way of "getting there," one reason I want a Treo750 instead of a TyTn/cingular8525.

    So I'll take the *1* extra click on 'favorites' for the superior browser.

    Also: Java actually works on WM5, it doesn't crash the OS like on Palm. So I can use Google maps or opera mini.

    Lagging calendar and outlook mail features aside, WM5 really isn't more high maintenance in terms of navigation. They need some work on the memory clean up on WM5 (IE cache for example,) as does PalmOS (I can't tell you how many times I had to "fix" my wife's Treo because she filled the memory up with photos and crashed the OS to the point of total corruption.)
    Speaking of outlook's shortcomings, at least it does push mail and wireless sync out of the box. Palm;s remote "modem" sync is well... don't bother.

    I just don't like to see the general type of statement along the lines of "3 clicks to do what you can do in 1 on palm" Like I said I saw that so much i stayed away form WM5, now that I have it, I found out that's a complete myth. I've done more on my 8125 with WM5 in 1 week than I have in years on my Treos.

    At least PalmOS upgraded the contacts (FINALLY!) on the Treo 650.
    That's not to say POS doesn't have it's place. If you want a GREAT organizer in your phone, PalmOS is great for the person that doesn't want a learning curve whatsoever. But just a couple of days of education and I really don't think it's more complicated by any means.

    I have had to add some 3rd party apps to "finish" the functionality of the OS on WM5. Like SPB Pocket Plus which adds multiple IE windows, a "close all" option on the OK menu, and numerous OS shortcuts. Even on PalmOS I had to do the same thing with a few utilities. So some effort has to be put in to it.

    The reason I finally had "had it" with the Treo is litterally the lack of being able to browse web pages i wanted to get to. Xiino is starting to lag seriously with timeouts, opera mini hangs the OS, Blazer doesn't work half the time and is slower than hell (esp using "back" because of no cache,) and Webviewer is discontinued.

    Day 1 with an 8125 I was stoked that really I don't need anything more than IE, even though I've loaded up Opera Mobile as well as Opera Mini, because some sites just work better with certain browsers. I intend to check out thunder hawk which I hear is great.

    I'm on the search for a better email program.

    On that note Cingular XPress mail is nicer on the PalmOS, I don't like it quite so much on WM5. But oh well it does it's job getting me work email.

    All of this and I've only had WM5 for about a week and a half. I'm already a fan. I don't even want to check out Symbian even though people have great things to say about it.

    Clearly I could go on for days, but I'll spare all of you. In the end to each his own and I do miss some things about PalmOS (but not much), mainly the file system.

    I look forward to checking out the Treo750. As long as I can get a miniSD wifi card to work in it I think that'll be my 3G upgrade. I only got the 8125 because It was cheap ($200 refurb) and I got tired of waiting for 3G WM phones to come out.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  5. #25  
    Taylor,

    If you are on Cingular and using thier DNS servers, you owe it to yourself to try the OpenDNS servers. I have changed my Cingular DNS IP's to use OpenDNS and now PIE performs much better obtaining sites. Like night and day.

    www.opendns.com
    PDA Lineage: Handspring Visor Deluxe, Visor Prism, Casio EM-500, Casio E-200, HP Jornada 568, IPAQ 1910,IPAQ 4150,Ipaq 2750 (with Moto Razr V3), Imate K-Jam,Treo 750,HTC Touch Cruise,HTC Touch Diamond(US)
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I have to say I think your point about using the Seido battery is misleading. It might be able to line up the contacts but it's twice the thickness at least of the 750 battery. The darm battery barely fit in my 700p it was so thick. Using a battery but leaving the cover off is a "it's works" thing.

    I think you are missing the point of the 750v. Personally I much prefer Palm OS also and I do think it's easier with less clicks and other non-useful stuff in WM5. BUT do you want things like:

    UMTS data speeds?
    Bluetooth voice dialing?
    Bluetooth stereo?

    If you do, then the 750 has them included and the 680 doesn't. The first two at least will never be able to be added to the 680. These sorts of things really make the decision between the 680 and 750. If you want high-speed data then the 680 is a real problem. Personally if the 680 had UMTS I would get it, but it doesn't and it won't ever.

    I would opt faster OS over high speed internet

    Pro on 680
    Curious on 750
  7. #27  
    Even palm and wm5 do similar clicks to get into the application, palm is still simpler because from click #1 to #2 there are LESS MENU/OPTIONS on each stage (simpler menu on the display) compared to WM5

    This is why most users including myself find palm to be simpler and faster eventhough we reach there by the same amount of clicks
  8. tcs
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    #28  
    Speaking about single task, definitely Palm is faster but the multitasking ability of WM does trade off if you are power user who alwiz need to do multiple tasks at same time. I must admit that BT functions of Treo 750v is attractive

    Use one day to judge anything is too fast. Sam from PalmAddict is testing on Treo 750v as well. He does give a length testing period although he alwiz stressed that he is a palm guy. Nothing is absolute, i do agreed that WM is improving greatly over past couple of years.

    I may not agree with you but i will protect your right of speaking...ekekkeek
  9. #29  
    Palm easier/faster to use out of the box and it should be considering how long its been on the market compared to WM5. I really enjoy the PalmOS, but its sad to see that its stalled out while others are passing it by. My preferred OS on a mobile device would be a BSD or Linux variant due to their excellent usage of minimal hardware.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p > Treo 700wx -> Mogul -> Touch Pro
    You may like to flash, but your phone shouldn't. LED Killer
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by JGold View Post
    Taylor,

    If you are on Cingular and using thier DNS servers, you owe it to yourself to try the OpenDNS servers. I have changed my Cingular DNS IP's to use OpenDNS and now PIE performs much better obtaining sites. Like night and day.

    www.opendns.com
    Thanks for the tip. I'm already using opendns!
    When I was referring to latency with EDGE, I'm talking about the round trip latency from a request until data is deivered. It's about 2 seconds.
    Go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed and it'll tell you.
    It just means a web browser that downloads images in serial (if Blazer really does) is inefficient on a page with a lot of images. You end up spending as much time in latency as you do the actual download. It's better to have more parallel effort and better utilize the download bandwidth.
    This is why using reverse bluetooth DUN on the Treo 650 feels so much faster than EDGE even when it downloads about the same speed as EDGE. The Latency is very low.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  11. #31  
    Couple of points I saw as I browed through the latest posts:

    The OK key is great - you can switch from app to app without having to press OK. But, a great thing about it is that you press OK and you're back to the Today Screen - and as I was saying in another thread, this is the view that you have all of your information in one place, and is highly customizable to suit every individual's needs. NOTHING on Palm OS comes close.

    Someone said that there are too many menu options on WM5 and that makes POS easier to use - Maybe if you get frustrated by having a lot of things in front of your eyes, but I'm part of the camp that likes to have more options than having my phone tell me what I want to do.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by esatyawan View Post
    Even palm and wm5 do similar clicks to get into the application, palm is still simpler because from click #1 to #2 there are LESS MENU/OPTIONS on each stage (simpler menu on the display) compared to WM5

    This is why most users including myself find palm to be simpler and faster eventhough we reach there by the same amount of clicks
    Don't get me wrong, I am die hard old-time fan of PalmOS. The only reason I'm going to the dark (WM) side is because all of the web and multimedia stuff I want to do is on WM only and 3G support on Cingular.

    But I respectfully disagree with that statement. You do the same exact things on both, they just look different because of the UI.
    Allow me to demonstrate a few examples:

    Open a web page on WM5 gonig the longest way:
    WM5: Start>IE>Favorites>Sub-folder>Chose a favorite=Page open
    POS: Home(multi-click to category)>Web>Menu>Bookmarks View>5-way to 1 of 10 bookmarks pages=Page open
    On both, you can shorten things by doing menu+letter to immidiately pick a menu option by letter
    WM5: 5-6 clicks max
    POS: 6+ clicks

    The fastest way:
    WM5: IE Button>Favorites (soft key)>Select the favorite from the list=Web Page
    POS: Alt+Phone>Tap the fav on the first screen=Web Page
    WM5:3 clicks, POS: 2 clicks

    Open a note the long way:
    WM5:Start>Programs>Notes>Select Note=Note is open
    POS:Home(multi-click to category)>Memos>Select a note=Note Open

    The short way:
    POS:Press the memo button>Select the note=Note is open
    WM5:Press an assigned button>select the note=Note open.

    Switching between notes:
    POS: Select "DONE">Select new note=new note open.
    WM5: CLick "OK">Select new note=New note open.

    OK, so what if you leave a memo open switch to another app then back to memos, your memo is still open. Same on WM5 as the memo remains open in the background.

    I could go on. But no, you do not have a simpler path to the same task. There are some apps on POS like the phone screen has shortcuts in it. But WM5 has the today screen which does the same thing. Also you can pick what your most common 7 apps are on a put them right on the start menu. For 3 click access (Menu, App, Select something in the app)

    I'm not sure what it is about WM5 that people think it's more clicks? It must be that fancy start drop-down menu. But POS has home categories which are just as tedious, which is why I put everything in 1 category on POS and just tap home-letter as it's faster.

    Maybe it's an "OK" button at the top in WM 5 instead of a "done" button at the bottom like in POS. I'm not sure. If you count up the clicks you're doing nearly the identical set of tasks to go anywhere and on WM5 you can shorten to 1 click access just as you can on POS.

    Then there's the time saving feature I love on WM5 that POS doesn't have which is Click and hold. To copy/past text or any number of advance functions you just click and hold til the pop up menu appears.
    Copy/Paste:
    WM5. Highlight with the stylus>Click and hold> Tap cut, tap destination, Click and hold, Paste
    POS. Highlight with the stulys> Meny-X. Select destination> Menu-P
    Since I don't have to take my hand off the stylus to tap Menu-X or Menu-C, I prefer the WM5 way.

    I hate to sound like a WM fanboy. I'm just trying to set the record straight. It just LOOKS different.
    Last edited by taylorh; 10/16/2006 at 11:18 PM.
    Treo 750 (AT&T)
    Treo600->Treo650->Cing8525->Blackberry 8700c->Treo750->AT&T Tilt->Treo750->iPhone 3G
  13.    #33  
    UPDATE. i had buyers remorse and bought another one (even cheaper). Now i have spent much more time and am loving this machine.
  14. #34  
    Where are you buying the 750 so cheap? How much is cheap for a 750 anyway?
  15.    #35  
    in the UK. if you go to a vodafone store you can get the phone for FREE with 12-18 months contract at apx #20 per month. then pay #20 to unlock over at IMEI (which I think is actually Vodafone). then cancel the contract. you do need a UK address and debit card.
  16. #36  
    What do you have to pay in orderr to cancel the contract then?
    Treo 750v ---> Now Sold.
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