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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    They could have progressed the Palm OS if they really wanted to. Maybe they need to build a whole new OS and can't because they don't have the money, time or resources. Or maybe they just don't feel like putting in time, money and resources.

    I just wish they would have been more honest with consumers and said they will no longer be developing the Palm OS. I just had a bad feeling the day they went Windows that this was going to happen.
    why would palm invest all of these resources on a product that isn't even theirs anymore?
  2. #62  
    Keep in mind that Palm (the hardware company) has been completely silent about ALP (MAX is the UI codename, not the OS). I personally believe that there will never be a Palm branded device based on ALP. I have no inside knowledge so I could be completely wrong. However, I've worked in high-tech engineering and marketing for 20 years. And the fact that Access never mentions Palm in their announcments and Palm never says anything but that they "continue to work with Access" speaks volumes. Palm might bring out a Linux based OS (which they would be smart to do) but I don't think they are going to use ALP.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM View Post
    Diva;
    You do understand that much of the development that has happened with the PalmOS in the 5.4 versions has come from Palm and not PalmSource. The telephony stack (what lets ya make calls), the CDMA and GSM stack, the EVDO (and hopefully UMTS) are all Palm, not PalmSource derived. PalmSource spent most/all of its resources towards Cobalt and it tanked badily. In many respects, Palm pitching to MS in knowing that CObalt was tanked was smart on their part (even though it does speak to everyone that the PalmOS is finito).

    Please dont think that Palm is done developing on the PalmOS. Just the fact that they released the 700p means that there would be at least another year of development (ROM updates) to support it. I would guess that the 680 would be running the sme OS minus the EVDO stuff, and then receive similar treatment. No, these wont be the very well selling 650s and get 18 months of support, but Palm will/should at least be supporting till fall of 2007.

    There will be no major update to the PalmOS as we know it. Its basically dead (Access who own it has all but said so, hence only the support for PACE and not the GarnetOS). The next PalmOS, if you want to call it that, would be named MAX and has its underpinnings in Linux and will have the ability to do all that Garnet can do and a whole lot more. Its a smarter move yes, but it might be about 6 months too late even when the devices come out (it would have to hit with price, performance, and design to be a big seller).
    very well said.

    WM5 delivered what Palm wanted in an OS. PalmSource didn't.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    why would palm invest all of these resources on a product that isn't even theirs anymore?
    The Palm OS is(or was) their signature OS, that's one reason why. People still want to use it, is another reason. And since Palm is(or was) the only maker using Palm OS...
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM View Post
    Diva;
    You do understand that much of the development that has happened with the PalmOS in the 5.4 versions has come from Palm and not PalmSource. The telephony stack (what lets ya make calls), the CDMA and GSM stack, the EVDO (and hopefully UMTS) are all Palm, not PalmSource derived. PalmSource spent most/all of its resources towards Cobalt and it tanked badily. In many respects, Palm pitching to MS in knowing that CObalt was tanked was smart on their part (even though it does speak to everyone that the PalmOS is finito).

    Please dont think that Palm is done developing on the PalmOS. Just the fact that they released the 700p means that there would be at least another year of development (ROM updates) to support it. I would guess that the 680 would be running the sme OS minus the EVDO stuff, and then receive similar treatment. No, these wont be the very well selling 650s and get 18 months of support, but Palm will/should at least be supporting till fall of 2007.

    There will be no major update to the PalmOS as we know it. Its basically dead (Access who own it has all but said so, hence only the support for PACE and not the GarnetOS). The next PalmOS, if you want to call it that, would be named MAX and has its underpinnings in Linux and will have the ability to do all that Garnet can do and a whole lot more. Its a smarter move yes, but it might be about 6 months too late even when the devices come out (it would have to hit with price, performance, and design to be a big seller).
    I still think they just gave up to MSFT. Maybe they had no choice because they had no updated OS. Was it either WM or have no updated phones to sell at all? But now there's no real reason to keep using Palm products as of now. The Palm OS cannot(or will not) be updated and WM can be found in so many other places. What do we need Palm for? Only serious Treo fans need Palm. How many are left? It looks like a lot from this forum, but how many are there REALLY?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. hduty's Avatar
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    #66  
    I recently gave up on Palm. After waiting for +1 year, confident that their next models would include Wifi, I finally moved on when I found out that none of them included Wifi.

    As far as I'm concerned, the OS is a moot point, although in the same conditions (=assuming POS was multitasking) I'd go with POS over WM. As it is now, after having used the hw6915 for 10 days, I can safely say that POS is completely outdated and isn't fit for a high-end phone in '06.
    Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm m505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...!) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome!) -> iPaq hw6915 (almost perfect) -> Nokia E51 (un/impressive) -> HTC Touch Enhanced (nice!) -> Samsung i780 (mousepad woes) -> HTC s740 (very good) -> Nokia E72 (RAM starved) -> HTC HD mini (...) -> Palm Pre 2
  7. TazUk's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by hduty View Post
    I can safely say that POS is completely outdated
    In what way?
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by TazUk View Post
    In what way?
    Apparently incompatible with 3G UMTS radios. Unable to perform simultaneous voice and data. Unable to run multiple applications simulataneously. For starters.
  9.    #69  
    If you give POS supporters a long list , the usual response is that these deficiencies are not in the areas that does not matter to them. They forget that the success of the platform it has to satisfy a diversity of needs e.g. RAD (rapid application development) and database access may not be important to a consumer, but may be very important for a business buyer who wants to intergrate with their old back-end software.

    Surur
  10. TazUk's Avatar
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    #70  
    I was just interested as the OP has Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect) in their sig but posted that "I can safely say that POS is completely outdated". So what was it about WM on the HP which prompted that response.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    If you give POS supporters a long list , the usual response is that these deficiencies are not in the areas that does not matter to them
    That works the other way around too
  11. #71  
    I can't speak for him, but after I went back to Palm OS, I ended up going back to WM(the full version, smartphone sucks) too. Why? I got tired of buying software, is one thing. Many of WM5's built-in apps work fine for me. Although I know that's not the case for many around here. But I did not have to buy so much software to get the WM5 phone the way I wanted it.

    The multi-tasking was another reason.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDs10e View Post
    Apparently incompatible with 3G UMTS radios. Unable to perform simultaneous voice and data. Unable to run multiple applications simulataneously. For starters.
    This alone makes it just about obsolete.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by hduty View Post
    hw6915 (almost perfect)
    I do not get the hw6915. Why would anyone leave POS for WM w/o getting 3G radio? I mean it seems a nice enough phone but I already have EDGE and I did not have to go to WM to get it.

    [Much less have to buy and learn new GPS software. I had not even thought of that until I read their ad.]

    That said, if a GSM user is willing to go to WM, they have a lot more choice of hardware than if one is a CDMA user.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/25/2006 at 04:11 PM.
  14.    #74  
    I got my wife a HP 6915. She does not use mobile internet or streaming, so fast data is wasted on her. Frankly she does not even use the keyboard, and still flips up the lid to do anything on the touch screen with the stylus, even though its almost completely unnecessary. In fact she insisted I get a touch screen device instead of one of the newer generation smartphones (like the E61).

    What tipped me over to getting the HP 6915 vs the HTC TyTN for example was the GPS, which we use regularly (its just TomTom, so no relearning necessary), It is a feature thats very useful and very desirably in the UK and Europe. One day she will catch on to the keyboard and then that will be an advantage also.

    Currently I think only the Loox T830 offers GPS and 3G data, but its a gigantic device, even compared to the HP 6915, and early reviews were'nt good. Also it was late in coming to market, and still has not arrived. Maybe next year.

    In short, the HP 6915 is a pretty good device. Not everyone uses PDA phones for mobile internet.

    Surur
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I got my wife a HP 6915. She does not use mobile internet or streaming, so fast data is wasted on her. Frankly she does not even use the keyboard, and still flips up the lid to do anything on the touch screen with the stylus, even though its almost completely unnecessary. In fact she insisted I get a touch screen device instead of one of the newer generation smartphones (like the E61).

    What tipped me over to getting the HP 6915 vs the HTC TyTN for example was the GPS, which we use regularly (its just TomTom, so no relearning necessary), It is a feature thats very useful and very desirably in the UK and Europe. One day she will catch on to the keyboard and then that will be an advantage also.

    Currently I think only the Loox T830 offers GPS and 3G data, but its a gigantic device, even compared to the HP 6915, and early reviews were'nt good. Also it was late in coming to market, and still has not arrived. Maybe next year.

    In short, the HP 6915 is a pretty good device. Not everyone uses PDA phones for mobile internet.

    Surur
    Sorry. I was thinking in the context of a Treo user.

    Are you telling me that the GPS with TomTom software is included in the base price? If you are, then I get it.
  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Sorry. I was thinking in the context of a Treo user.

    Are you telling me that the GPS with TomTom software is included in the base price? If you are, then I get it.
    The software is included, but unfortunately the maps, which is the most expensive part, is not. You get one free city map as a taster, but you have to buy the rest of the country separately. Western Europe cost about 90 (about $160), brining the price of the whole device with maps to about 500. Thats quite expensive, but it can be justified if you add the sum of the parts (PDA, about 200 for a cheap one, TomTom stand-alone unit, about 200-250, phone 50, 50 for squeezing it all into one very stable device).

    I understand in USA with the grid road system GPS is not a killer feature, but roads have evolved in UK over centuries into convoluted mazes. GPS is a boom industry here, and many cars feature either PDA-based GPS or stand-alone GPS units.

    I would have said Palm missed a trick by not including GPS in their device, but the rise of cheap stand-alone devices have really undercut most of that market. 1-2 years ago however it would have been a major selling point. However in another 1-2 years there will be a resurgence in GPS PDA-Phone use as the premium between phones and stand-alone GPS devices become smaller. Stand-alone devices still need batteries, processors, memory and a screen, so there is a limit on how cheap they can get. At the same time a smartphone has all that included already, and only needs a GPS receiver, which is already very cheap. I expect in 2 years a GPS phone will only be 20 more expensive than a stand-alone GPS device, so that market will be killed by the cellphone too.

    So if I was Palm I would be planning a cheap GPS phone for 2008, but they will probably only come out with such a device in 2010.

    Surur
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    I do not get the hw6915. Why would anyone leave POS for WM w/o getting 3G radio? I mean it seems a nice enough phone but I already have EDGE and I did not have to go to WM to get it.

    [Much less have to buy and learn new GPS software. I had not even thought of that until I read their ad.]

    That said, if a GSM user is willing to go to WM, they have a lot more choice of hardware than if one is a CDMA user.
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I got my wife a HP 6915. She does not use mobile internet or streaming, so fast data is wasted on her. Frankly she does not even use the keyboard, and still flips up the lid to do anything on the touch screen with the stylus, even though its almost completely unnecessary. In fact she insisted I get a touch screen device instead of one of the newer generation smartphones (like the E61).

    What tipped me over to getting the HP 6915 vs the HTC TyTN for example was the GPS, which we use regularly (its just TomTom, so no relearning necessary), It is a feature thats very useful and very desirably in the UK and Europe. One day she will catch on to the keyboard and then that will be an advantage also.

    Currently I think only the Loox T830 offers GPS and 3G data, but its a gigantic device, even compared to the HP 6915, and early reviews were'nt good. Also it was late in coming to market, and still has not arrived. Maybe next year.

    In short, the HP 6915 is a pretty good device. Not everyone uses PDA phones for mobile internet.

    Surur
    It has Wifi Also, Correct?
    The 6945 does:
    http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...2-1822489.html

    If ones have a greater access to Wifi than 3G,
    that would be a huge selling point.
    Just call me Berd.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    ..........I understand in USA with the grid road system GPS is not a killer feature, but roads have evolved in UK over centuries into convoluted mazes. GPS is a boom industry here, and many cars feature either PDA-based GPS or stand-alone GPS units.
    Big deal to me. I am old and I drink. I cannot get from here to my dentist w/o TomTom. The problem is that I have already paid for TomTom on POS. If I have to move to WM to get UMTS, then I must pay for it again. Palm believes or pretends that what I pay them is the only cost for changing to WM.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I would have said Palm missed a trick by not including GPS in their device, but the rise of cheap stand-alone devices have really undercut most of that market...........
    Yes, but that is one of the things that makes BT so important. Wired GPS on a phone with proprietary connectors is daunting. Palm seems to think that BT is an optional, rather than an essential, feature. In any case, "optional" means that one can get it for a price, rather than the vendor can include it or not at its whim.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    1-2 years ago however it would have been a major selling point. However in another 1-2 years there will be a resurgence in GPS PDA-Phone use as the premium between phones and stand-alone GPS devices become smaller. Stand-alone devices still need batteries, processors, memory and a screen, so there is a limit on how cheap they can get. At the same time a smartphone has all that included already, and only needs a GPS receiver, which is already very cheap. I expect in 2 years a GPS phone will only be 20 more expensive than a stand-alone GPS device, so that market will be killed by the cellphone too.

    So if I was Palm I would be planning a cheap GPS phone for 2008, but they will probably only come out with such a device in 2010.

    Surur
    One can add TomTom to BT equipped Treo for about $225-. This is a low price GPS (stand alone GPS devices are $500- and up) and great increase in the value of the Treo. Since I have already paid for it, I just want Palm to include BT, not make me pay for it again by including it.
  19. #79  
    Still waiting for Cingular to authorize the HP 6900 line. They said they would be ready by September. Of course, they're not.
    So of course, that means going back to unlocked vendors once again, if you want one in the US. GPS would work for those who drive across the country or even across the state, on a regular basis. I used to but GPS as we know it now was probably in it's infancy then(1995 -1998).
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    The Palm OS is(or was) their signature OS, that's one reason why. People still want to use it, is another reason. And since Palm is(or was) the only maker using Palm OS...
    It WAS the company's signature OS. Now, it is not. Palm has no reason to support an OS that can't support itself.
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