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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    No sympathy here either. There is already an upgrade to the 700w but many of us are still waiting for an upgrade to our 650s.
    I think the 700p is technically an "upgrade"
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fittske View Post
    All I can say is...
    Each and everyone who bought a treo 700w had 15 days to return it.

    Somewhere during that 15 days you learned that it only had 32MB of memory.

    On day 16, it becomes your fault not Palm's.

    Stop complaining.
    Exactly.

    Frankly, I think people (especially attorneys) involved in class action lawsuits and bankruptcies are no better than common thieves. It is simply a legal way to steal. I don’t know if it is true but, I read somewhere recently that lawsuits last year equaled something like $800+ per man, woman and child in America…..truly pathetic. I qualified for the V710 settlement, I through the paperwork in the trash. It was a great phone. I gave it to my girlfriend when I bought my 700w and she still loves it. This country has become a bunch of spoiled, whiny babies that can’t take responsibility for their own actions. This thread is just one example. I’ll step off the box now.
  3. dimitri's Avatar
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    #43  
    Everyone wants to keep saying that there are advances in the technology. But the only advance is in the amount of memory. I wouldn't be so pissed if there was a different OS or if there was differnet technology (a true advancement in technology like bluetooth 2.0 and other thins). But there is not. It is the exact same phone with the exact same hardware except for the memory. As for the advanced contract that Verizon had with Palm, I don't care. But I paid 700 for this phone and I want it to work the way that it is suppose to. Not have to keep reseting it to make it work properly. I want more memory.
  4. xtant21's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by dimitri View Post
    Everyone wants to keep saying that there are advances in the technology. But the only advance is in the amount of memory. I wouldn't be so pissed if there was a different OS or if there was differnet technology (a true advancement in technology like bluetooth 2.0 and other thins). But there is not. It is the exact same phone with the exact same hardware except for the memory. As for the advanced contract that Verizon had with Palm, I don't care. But I paid 700 for this phone and I want it to work the way that it is suppose to. Not have to keep reseting it to make it work properly. I want more memory.
    According to what everyone who has a 700w and is upset at the new 700wx having 64mb RAM is saying...we should all go out and sue the manufacturer if they put "New & Improved" on the label because that admits they made a bad product or didn't make the product the best the first time. That's what you guys are saying.

    As for your reset problems...that's a Treo trademark...not an issue with the fact the unit has 32mb RAM. We ALL have been dealing with resets to make them work for years now. The 600, 650, 700w, 700p all of them have reset issues. It's not that it is a bad product you have a complex mini-computer in your pocket...there are going to be glitches. If you want a Windows computer in your pocket...you're going to get the same thing you get with a windows computer on your desktop...you better reboot or reset it from time to time when you have extra time...or it will make you reset it when you need it most.

    The Treo functions as advertised...it is a phone and it is a great PIM tool. Memory problems are a fact of life with Windows Mobile. Even with 64mb RAM the PPC6700 and XV6700 (and Cingular 8125) have to be reset every now and then. More RAM will not fix your problem...it will allow to add more programs...which is not something that affects the device from working as advertised.

    I keep hearing this I want...I want. I will reiterate my earlier words that we have become a group of whiners with a feeling that we are owed more than we got after we have it. Well...then everyone should have waited and bought what they really wanted not what they could get their hands on NOW. Again...we all knew 6 Treos this year. Something had to be different about them. Take a wait and see and buy what you really want. Be patient. I didn't get mad at Dell for adding the graphics card I wanted on my laptop two weeks after I ordered it with the lower level card...it's technology evolution. Don't buy technology if you don't want to be part of the game. You paid 700 dollars for the best technology at THAT time. Just as my laptop cost $200 less with a better graphics card two weeks after I bought it. Welcome to the speed of obsolescence in technology spending.
    Last edited by xtant21; 08/24/2006 at 04:21 PM.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21 View Post
    ...............As for your reset problems...that's a Treo trademark...not an issue with the fact the unit has 32mb RAM.
    Perhaps. Most of the reset problems in Treos are "software related," that is, software that does not abide by the rules causes crashes.

    That said, application program errors should not be able to crash the system. Application code should be isolated from the operating system and the hardware. Said another way, the computing base should be able to protect itself from the behavior of the applications that it hosts.

    Palm, and, for that matter Microsoft, are infamous for their failure in this regard; in POS it manifests itself in resets, in Windows as the "blue screen of death." However MS has two excuses. First, backward compatibility; Windows is vulnerable in part because fixing it might break old applications. Palm does not enjoy this excuse; they do not even try to maintain backward compatibility. They are notorious for breaking and orphaning legacy applications.

    Second, most of the MS blue screens are caused by hardware device drivers, code not written by MS but which runs, perhaps must run, with privilege. It is a natural consequence of trying to be hardware agnostic. Again, Palm does not have this excuse; they are the providers of all hardware.

    Palm devices are likely to become less stable as the number of operating systems supported proliferates. Pre-emptive multi-tasking could help but, in the absence of design and intent, I do not expect it to.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21 View Post
    You paid 700 dollars for the best technology at THAT time. Just as my laptop cost $200 less with a better graphics card two weeks after I bought it. Welcome to the speed of obsolescence in technology spending.
    This is where you seem to misunderstand. The best technology at the time has 128MB RAM. Everyone else had 64 MB RAM. Palm had 32 MB. You dont seem to get that the Treo 700w was deliberately short changed.

    If Palm can toy with the customers (and you find this very acceptable it seems) its also part of the game to punish them for this. Why should Palm get to have all the fun?

    Surur
  7. dimitri's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21 View Post
    As for your reset problems...you better reboot or reset it from time to time when you have extra time...or it will make you reset it when you need it most.
    Yeah I can understand a reset once in a while but when you have to reset it at least twice a day then it becomes an issue. I am not a consumer that will sit idlely by and let a large corporation give it to me up the a**. And then say can I have another.

    If I spend good hard earned money on a tech product then I want it to work the way that it is suppose to.

    The upgrade in memory is not an advancement in the technology. It is a requirement for the device to work properly. Use your device as much as most of us that are complaining do and see what your reaction is.

    I am not some rich fool that can blow $700 dollars every other week.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by dimitri View Post
    ............The upgrade in memory is not an advancement in the technology. It is a requirement for the device to work properly.....
    Not only do I agree, I said so at the time (Look it up). 32M was demonstrably inadequate even with POS; it was insane for WM. Even at the time, most WM devices had 128M expandable to 256M.

    That said, I suspect that the blame rests more with Sprint and Verizon than with Palm. The difference between the interests of the carriers and the end-users is so great that, as long as the carriers make all the key design choices, the end-users will not be completely satisfied.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    .........If Palm can toy with the customers .......
    They clearly can because they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    ...........(and you find this very acceptable it seems) its also part of the game to punish them for this. Why should Palm get to have all the fun?

    Surur
    Why indeed?

    That said, they are very fragile. It is not clear that they could survive being treated at our hands the way they treat us.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This is where you seem to misunderstand. The best technology at the time has 128MB RAM. Everyone else had 64 MB RAM. Palm had 32 MB. You dont seem to get that the Treo 700w was deliberately short changed.

    If Palm can toy with the customers (and you find this very acceptable it seems) its also part of the game to punish them for this. Why should Palm get to have all the fun?

    Surur
    This post begs the question..... why if the best had 128 did you buy the one with 32? You had two other options. The best at 128 and the rest at 64 and yet you bought the 32. Go figure.

    And "deliberately shortchanged"? Could you prove this? Were you there when someone at palm had a meeting and said lets screw em good with this first 700? I thnk not.

    Has it occured to anyone that Sprint may have said "we want double the memory" to entice unhappy customers from Verizon? Or that Verizon said "32mb is plenty we'll have the only WM5 treo on the market and people want this phone"?

    To say that Palm is to blame when we all know the carriers dictate much of what goes into their hardware is kinda dumb IMO.
  11. #51  
    Rather than thinking about suing Palm which is just frivolous how about concentrating efforts on the regulatory authorities that allow cell phone providers to have such control over equipment that I can't decide what equipment to use on my carrier. Carriers BS about testing phones and "keeping them from damaging the network, etc" while in reality they just want to lock phones down so it fits their revenue plans.

    Why can't I buy an unlocked Treo 700wx direct from palm at full price and activate it on any carrier that supports its radio? The technology would support it. The fact that VZW won't activate a sprint phone is arbitrary and just more BS. Why should CDMA be so different from GSM in this respect? I can buy an unlocked GSM treo and use it on any GSM carrier I want to.

    Maybe the resentment a lot of us feel has more to do with the fact that we do not have control over equipment and upgrades and therefore feel we are being locked in or screwed when a new device comes out and we can't be sure we can use it. Will VZW pick it up? Up to them, not us.

    If you buy a *subsidized* phone from a carrier then they need to recoup their investment by all rights. You run the risk something better will come out. But I refer to phones that are unsubsidized and have nothing to do with the carrier.

    The phone companies will do nothing about this, it isn't in their interest. We need to get laws passed that define and protect our right to use the equipment we choose to. Telcos shouldn't be allowed to say that they will not activate a legitimately purchased device for arbitrary reasons (e.g. blacklisted ESNs). Those laws could enable Palm to come out with an unlocked CDMA phone. Then if Palm doesn't offer that option we have a legitimate complaint against them.

    Another option to stick it to them is to go GSM if you have the option to. It gives you control. You take the SIM out and put it in the device of your choice.

    My $0.02
    Sam
  12. #52  
    Rather than thinking about suing Palm which is just frivolous how about concentrating efforts on the regulatory authorities that allow cell phone providers to have such control over equipment that I can't decide what equipment to use on my carrier. Carriers BS about testing phones and "keeping them from damaging the network, etc" while in reality they just want to lock phones down so it fits their revenue plans.

    Why can't I buy an unlocked Treo 700wx direct from palm at full price and activate it on any carrier that supports its radio? The technology would support it. The fact that VZW won't activate a sprint phone is arbitrary and just more BS. Why should CDMA be so different from GSM in this respect? I can buy an unlocked GSM treo and use it on any GSM carrier I want to.

    Maybe the resentment a lot of us feel has more to do with the fact that we do not have control over equipment and upgrades and therefore feel we are being locked in or screwed when a new device comes out and we can't be sure we can use it. Will VZW pick it up? Up to them, not us.

    If you buy a *subsidized* phone from a carrier then they need to recoup their investment by all rights. You run the risk something better will come out. But I refer to phones that are unsubsidized and have nothing to do with the carrier.

    The phone companies will do nothing about this, it isn't in their interest. We need to get laws passed that define and protect our right to use the equipment we choose to. Telcos shouldn't be allowed to say that they will not activate a legitimately purchased device for arbitrary reasons (e.g. blacklisted ESNs). Those laws could enable Palm to come out with an unlocked CDMA phone. Then if Palm doesn't offer that option we have a legitimate complaint against them.

    Another option to stick it to them is to go GSM if you have the option to. It gives you control. You take the SIM out and put it in the device of your choice.

    My $0.02
    Sam
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Has it occured to anyone that Sprint may have said "we want double the memory" to entice unhappy customers from Verizon? Or that Verizon said "32mb is plenty we'll have the only WM5 treo on the market and people want this phone"?
    So you're saying the blame really DOES fall directly back onto Palm. If Verizon, the network provider, told Palm, the phone provider, "32 MB is plenty," and Palm, with their reputation at risk said, "sounds good," then who's really to blame?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    So you're saying the blame really DOES fall directly back onto Palm. If Verizon, the network provider, told Palm, the phone provider, "32 MB is plenty," and Palm, with their reputation at risk said, "sounds good," then who's really to blame?
    Verizon!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by SamT View Post
    ...................Another option to stick it to them is to go GSM if you have the option to. It gives you control. You take the SIM out and put it in the device of your choice.

    My $0.02
    Sam
    Palm favors new Treo customers over old, e.g., CDMA over GSM, W over P.

    I am willing to pay, and have paid, the premium for an unlocked GSM Treo. That does not mean that I "stick it" to Palm; maybe to the carriers but not to Palm. Palm still exercises arbitrary influence, not to say control. Palm does not offer an unlocked GSM 700. Unlocked GSM 600 and 650 were offered only months after CDMA phones and even locked GSM phones.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    This post begs the question..... why if the best had 128 did you buy the one with 32? You had two other options. The best at 128 and the rest at 64 and yet you bought the 32. Go figure...........
    Simple. Palm OS. The only advantage that Palm has ever had is those of us who are loyal to POS. They have always treated us like pond scum. Soon they will not even have that advantage.

    Is it time yet to move to Moto or Sam?
  17. xtant21's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    This is where you seem to misunderstand. The best technology at the time has 128MB RAM. Everyone else had 64 MB RAM. Palm had 32 MB. You dont seem to get that the Treo 700w was deliberately short changed.

    If Palm can toy with the customers (and you find this very acceptable it seems) its also part of the game to punish them for this. Why should Palm get to have all the fun?

    Surur
    Alright...I didn't think I needed to but allow me to be more specific then. You bought the best Palm Treo sporting WM5 at that time. And I have to say as woof said...if the best available to YOU was the 128 and 64mb devices out there why would you spend your hard earned money on something that fell short of your TRUE needs/wants? To say it was deliberately short changed is reaching...that's an assumption.

    Palm wasn't toying with you...that's the device they offered back in January...and everyone knew full well when it launched that it had 32mb RAM. That is the phone that Verizon decided to offer. They wanted first dibs and they wanted 8 months of exclusivity on the WM5 platform. Which meant Palm contractually agreed to not release another WM5 Treo for 8 months...now they are able to and are releasing the other WM5 Treos...one with 64mb RAM and one with no antenna and a sleek new body.

    Do you plan to start a class-action lawsuit because the GSM Treo has a better form factor than the one you bought in January? Are you going to claim foul that they held back the best design and you are now stuck with a larger fat antenna totin' Treo?

    It's not Palm's fault you CHOSE to buy what you didn't REALLY want. If you wanted a 64mb WM5 Treo (or PDA-Phone) you should have held your dollars and that alone would have held Palm responsible...with all these new treos not selling...what do you think they would have done to up the ante?

    I'm not disagreeing that I also believe it should have had 64mb from the get-go but I chose NOT to buy it because it did not meet my expectations or what I wanted...and I had other choices out there...and I excercised my right to restraint.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Palm favors new Treo customers over old, e.g., CDMA over GSM, W over P.

    I am willing to pay, and have paid, the premium for an unlocked GSM Treo. That does not mean that I "stick it" to Palm; maybe to the carriers but not to Palm. Palm still exercises arbitrary influence, not to say control. Palm does not offer an unlocked GSM 700. Unlocked GSM 600 and 650 were offered only months after CDMA phones and even locked GSM phones.
    That's what I meant. Stick it to the carriers. Palm would only benefit from unlocked phones. I'll bet that palm doesn't make as much on a "subsidized" phone as they would selling to consumers directly. The buying leverage that verizon or sprint has ensures that they pay a discounted price. Palm is also stifled in their development cycle by the telcos and their custom requirements. It stops them from bringing new products to market quickly and also critical updates. What will happen when a CE virus comes out? Will we need to wait for VZW to "certify" it before it is released. Just more BS.

    The cellphone companies stance is anticompetitive and wrong IMHO. Ma Bell used to do this kind of thing (only 1 phone per line, Western Electric phones only, etc). That went the way of Ma Bell and the dinosaurs. Would we stand for Verizon Landline telling us we cannot use our Uniden brand cordless phone on their line? No way! It should be no different for Verizon Wireless. Until the federal government takes action they can do what they want and in the end consumers like us suffer.

    BTW the carriers wouldn't suffer either. You still have your contract with the termination fee, so what if I can switch my phone once I go month to month? I can still do that and join another carrier with a free phone offer. Do the phone companies make money from the phones? I doubt it. They make their money from the service. Actually I might avoid being tempted away from VZW or Sprint when one or the other gets something new if I could bring the equipment I want on to their network. I think it encourages customer loyalty. Where is the big downside for them? The model works in GSM land. Cingular makes money.

    Sam
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Simple. Palm OS. The only advantage that Palm has ever had is those of us who are loyal to POS. They have always treated us like pond scum. Soon they will not even have that advantage.

    Is it time yet to move to Moto or Sam?
    Will all due respect, we're talking about the Windows Mobile version. POS has nothing to do with this.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Palm favors new Treo customers over old, e.g., CDMA over GSM, W over P.

    I am willing to pay, and have paid, the premium for an unlocked GSM Treo. That does not mean that I "stick it" to Palm; maybe to the carriers but not to Palm. Palm still exercises arbitrary influence, not to say control. Palm does not offer an unlocked GSM 700. Unlocked GSM 600 and 650 were offered only months after CDMA phones and even locked GSM phones.
    BTW I happen to think that the delays in bringing the Unlocked Treos out have more to do with carrier influence than Palm's business strategy.

    Remember the Tungsten W? IIRC it was only available as an unlocked GSM. No carriers were interested in it then. If they could have produced a CDMA type, with the knowledge that it could be activated don't you think they would have? Big market there.

    Problem is if you want a piece of the huge North American CDMA market you have to play by the telcos rules.

    Sam
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