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  1.    #1  
    http://clieuk.co.uk/index.shtml#news...ZyuAFFlLZTQFCJ

    Its the future investors are worried about. While the Treo 650 is doing well, indications are that the Treo 700w, Palm's first Windows Mobile device, is selling pretty poorly. Inventory is sitting unsold in Verizon stores, and Sprint has been slow to pick up the device. They are now also under pressure from a pretty powerful rival in the form of the Motorola Q, which on release caused an immediate decline in Treo 700w sales. Businesses, the main target of the Treo 700w, has also been slow in buying into the device. To add insult to injury, Palm's next generation Windows Mobile GSM unit have been delayed, leading to a months-long gap in sales of GSM Treo Smartphones in the EU.

    Palm is relying on their Windows Mobile device strategy to penetrate markets previously relatively closed to them, these being in the Enterprise arena and Overseas territories. The unfortunate truth is that so far they have failed to deliver on this mission. Their Treo 700w device, while having a nice form factor, is weakly specified, and even crippled due to the lack of RAM. Their next WM device, the rumoured Treo Lennon, is much better specified, with 64 MB RAM and built-in WIFI. Apparently however these were only added after demands from European carriers, and one wonders whether this is what is responsible for the delay in availability.
  2. #2  
    I'd agree that the specs are to blame, not the WM strategy. Sounds like they are trying to get it right for the GSM Treo. If I were Sprint I wouldn't release the 700w as is.
  3. #3  
    IMO...I don't think it would be good to release the 700w as is for Sprint.
    at&t iPhone3G
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by hannip
    I'd agree that the specs are to blame, not the WM strategy.
    That **was** the point ! Palm's WM strategy was to release a WM phone w/ inadequate specs.

    Rule of thumb on MS products - take min. system req'ts and multiply by 2 for casual usage, by 4 for serious usage.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    That **was** the point ! Palm's WM strategy was to release a WM phone w/ inadequate specs.

    Rule of thumb on MS products - take min. system req'ts and multiply by 2 for casual usage, by 4 for serious usage.
    The math...
    at&t iPhone3G
  6. #6  
    I wouldn't call that a "strategy". I'd call it a design mistake. Unless you really think they were trying to save a few pennies at the cost of releasing a crippled device. Certainly it cost them more to make this mistake than if they did it right.
  7. #7  
    Palm probably has a department whose sole responsibility is to minimize features without negatively affecting sales. That department has never done their job, however. They've been shortchanging memory for years. Remember the sexy Palm V with only like 1 or 2 MB of memory?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by hannip
    I wouldn't call that a "strategy". I'd call it a design mistake. Unless you really think they were trying to save a few pennies at the cost of releasing a crippled device. Certainly it cost them more to make this mistake than if they did it right.
    As long as we had to wait for it...you think it would have been done right.
    at&t iPhone3G
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    That **was** the point ! Palm's WM strategy was to release a WM phone w/ inadequate specs.
    Was it also their strategy to release the 700P with all of its problems and nothing particularly unique about it? Maybe their real strategy is to get their stock value down really low, then buy a bunch of it back and release the good stuff they've been holding back so they can all retire rich.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    Was it also their strategy to release the 700P with all of its problems and nothing particularly unique about it? Maybe their real strategy is to get their stock value down really low, then buy a bunch of it back and release the good stuff they've been holding back so they can all retire rich.
    The 800p...
    at&t iPhone3G
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    Was it also their strategy to release the 700P with all of its problems and nothing particularly unique about it? Maybe their real strategy is to get their stock value down really low, then buy a bunch of it back and release the good stuff they've been holding back so they can all retire rich.
    What's particularly unique about the competition.....if this all wonderful device can be made, why is no one making it ? Must have full qwerty non slide out KB fo 1 handed operation, 1 week battery life, 320 x 320 minimum, touchscreen and all the Treo goodies plus these features that I have not been able to find in any devcxie yet unless it drops the preceding which are deal killers.

    That's the whole point about the Brighthand article.....you can only fit so much crap into a 2 pound bag.
  12. #12  
    Palm just doesnt get it...

    first of all, I dont know how many units of the 700w they expected to sell, especially since its only available on one carrier, and the carrier just happens to offer data at a cost more than most people are willing to spend.

    Second, the first thing any reviewer mentions about the w when comparing to a palm os treo is the screen resolution. If palm didnt realize that this was going to be a problem, then you have to seriously question their business sense. Microsoft has claimed that it would be an easy modification for palm to have supported 320x320.

    Third, the 700w memory. Lets face it, all of us cringed when we heard the amount that palm put into the 700w. Whether you can get around it or not, you again have to question palm decision makers here. It would have been worth the extra expense to up the memory. The second thing any reviewer mentions when comparing the W to a palm os treo is the memory.

    Give me a windows mobile treo with a 320 x 320 screen, with enough memory to run a bunch of apps at the same time, with a very resonably priced data plan and I will buy one, and I bet alot of other people would too.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    What's particularly unique about the competition.....if this all wonderful device can be made, why is no one making it ? Must have full qwerty non slide out KB fo 1 handed operation, 1 week battery life, 320 x 320 minimum, touchscreen and all the Treo goodies plus these features that I have not been able to find in any devcxie yet unless it drops the preceding which are deal killers.
    You left off the part that says it's supposed to work - Palm left that part off too. Too much care and feeding, instability, and 4-year-out-of-dateness (Visorphone).

    P.S. The i730 slide-out keyboard is quite clever and can only be opened with 1-handed operation (well, I suppose you could use two hands to open it, but one hand would just be cheering on the other hand - completely unnecessary).
  14. #14  
    64MB RAM would make me reconisder a Sprint 700w. Palm is in a self-created bind. They would love to put 64MB into the Sprint w - but they can't without significantly impacting their relationship with VZW.

    If I'm Sprint, I say pass on the w and bring on the Lennon.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  15. #15  
    Just a great example of tech companies pushing out beta-level products in the push to be "first to market". I don't know what kind of testing they do but they obviously don't use real people for it.

    PS, saw an ad yesterday for Windows Mobile, trumpeting how you can "make that change" to a 20 page PowerPoint presentation on your mobile device. What are these guys smoking to make such a brash claim?
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman
    Second, the first thing any reviewer mentions about the w when comparing to a palm os treo is the screen resolution. If palm didnt realize that this was going to be a problem, then you have to seriously question their business sense. Microsoft has claimed that it would be an easy modification for palm to have supported 320x320.
    MS was quite willing to do the code writing necessary for the Treo to support 320 x 320 under WM. Problem was they wanted Palm to pay the tab and they insisted on being able to include it in the OS for all manufacturers after Palm was fotting that tab.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman
    Give me a windows mobile treo with a 320 x 320 screen, with enough memory to run a bunch of apps at the same time, with a very resonably priced data plan and I will buy one, and I bet alot of other people would too.
    Add in better one handed operation and get rid of the remaining quirks (like having programs stay open after you are done using them) and it does get attractive. Why noyt have minimize and close like windoze on the desktop where close really means shut down ? But, all things being equal, I gonna go for lean and mean over bloated and "fluffy". If I want to use Opera Mini / TCPMP, I don't wanna be saddled with IE / WMP on the device..... give me the option to remove stuff and put WM on a diet, I'm paying attention.
  17. #17  
    Jack, we have had this conversation before, but it occurs to me that there are rom cookers for wm5. I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to rip out these pieces of software at risk of creating a brick...

    Surur
  18.    #18  
    Surur:

    Let's ask these guys to come up with WM5Lite

    http://www.litepc.com/
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    You left off the part that says it's supposed to work - Palm left that part off too. Too much care and feeding, instability, and 4-year-out-of-dateness (Visorphone).
    I have had maybe 5 non-manual resets in 18 months of use on my 650. I have had no other issues whatsoever. Is it cause I waited to buy ....is it cause I'm lucky ....is it cause tho I have 100+ programs on it none of them are memory hogs / memory leakers / poorly coded ?

    Early adopters take note...if experience tells ya anything, quirks and other poltergeists will inhabit ya device until ROM Update 1 or 2 breaks. iF ya need to be the first on on da block witha new Treo, you knew what to expect. Same with Vista .... you gonna run out and buy it day 1, welcome to the beta team....beta over when SP3 is released.

    If it don't work outta the box, it's obviously a lemon as there are many users w/o problems. If it causes problems when something is loaded or running, then we have to look at that interaction. Problem is, most peeps new Treo arrives and every app they have ever owned gets loaded on it. maybe 5 of them had software authors who tested their software on the device or an emulator before it was released.
  20. #20  
    To be fair - I've ZERO non-manual resets in 6 months of using my 700w and I have an obscene number of 3rd party apps installed. I reset daily because of memory leaks, software installs and conflicts, and system slowdowns though. For efficiency, I usually reset around a daily Sprite backup which forces 2 resets.
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