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  1. plasmo's Avatar
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       #1  
    I have been using Orb, Avvenu, Logmein, and now am going to try out the
    free Emoze push-email service on my 700w.
    These are GREAT programs, and very useful, and best of all, they are FREE

    It doesn't appear that these companies are going to start charging people for their services, but does anyone know how these companies make money?
    (I know Logmein has higher levels of service that do charge $, like file transferring, but you can get around this by using the Free Logmein + Avvenu combo to transfer files)
    TRGpro --> Handera 330 --> SideKick I --> HP iPAQ H4355 (stolen) --> Navman PiN --> Treo 700w
  2. #2  
    @plasmo
    Good question.

    I'm always suspicious about "free" services because I know they have to get paid some how. (I have to look into Avvenu although I've already paid for one workstation on Logmein IT/Reach.) Otherwise, I wonder if non-beta code developers are getting paid by spyware or adware.

    I was thinking that emoze was getting paid by attracting customers to their other fee services. I could be wrong.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by plasmo
    It doesn't appear that these companies are going to start charging people for their services...
    Avvenu posts right on their website that they plan to start charging for the service. You are also confusing freeware with web services. Software can be open source, or just a developer's hobby, but most of what you have mentioned are web services. Web services have overhead, and need to make money.
  4. #4  
    Orb has partners like Creative that finance their operation.
  5. Cartman's Avatar
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    #5  
    A lot of compaines make money when they are sold

    ....or off advertising.
  6. #6  
    I had this conversation the other day when checking out orb.com. I'm sure they have something in mind whether it is advertising or selling the company down the line.

    I've come across a few sellout examples. There was an outlook search called Lookout that was and still is free. I guess once enough people were using it to make Microsoft take notice, they just bought them up.

    My partner and I have a web development company and are working on a pet project right now. It will be free for everyone to use (nothing to do with the treo or phones). We figure we could add some subtle advertising to it to make some cash off of it and also the idea has potential for a bigger company to scoop it up from us. I can't go into much details but you get the point. And another reason not mentioned is that they just do it because they like what they are doing. The project we are working on is something we both would love to have and we have the means to build it without much out of pocket cost as we already have a web development team.
    Treo700.us is now WinMobee.com. Soon to be a great resource site for all Windows Mobile phones.
  7. #7  
    whenever I am shopping around for a company to spend big bucks on, I always love it when the company is losing money, that's a big plus

    I guess I could buy it with plans to make it profitable but wouldn't that involve charging money?
  8. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    whenever I am shopping around for a company to spend big bucks on, I always love it when the company is losing money, that's a big plus

    I guess I could buy it with plans to make it profitable but wouldn't that involve charging money?
    Amazon.com has lost money since the beginning and as far as I know, still is.

    Avvenu (see my review on the front page of TC) is free for now, but they're going to add new features and start charging for it in a few months, but the free version will remain. I've had many long conversations with them. (Directed to Beryl above..) .. If someone has any proof that Avvenu emplants spyware or adware on one's computer, I'd like to see that proof. There are no ads or popups when using it. Otherwise, throwing around such accusations is just irresponsible.

    I know, at times, it seems like every company out there is out to screw everyone out of as much cash as they possibly can, but there actually are some honest companies and people in the high tech industires who don't have evil motives. Believe it or not.

    How do companies give away a service for free and stay in business? It's called Venture Capitalism. When the VCs pull out, companies tend to go away unless they're turning a profit.

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  9. plasmo's Avatar
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       #9  
    Thanks for all the info!
    TRGpro --> Handera 330 --> SideKick I --> HP iPAQ H4355 (stolen) --> Navman PiN --> Treo 700w
  10. #10  
    Amazon has been profitable for quite some time ...... 2003, 2004, and 2005 were all profitable according to Yahoo finance .......

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AMZN&annual
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    (Directed to Beryl above..) .. If someone has any proof that Avvenu emplants spyware or adware on one's computer, I'd like to see that proof. There are no ads or popups when using it. Otherwise, throwing around such accusations is just irresponsible.
    I never accused Avvenu of implanting anything. Reading is fundamental. I stated that I was going to look into using Avvenu myself! Talk about irresponsible comments....
  12. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    I never accused Avvenu of implanting anything. Reading is fundamental. I stated that I was going to look into using Avvenu myself! Talk about irresponsible comments....
    You wrote:

    "I'm always suspicious about 'free' services because I know they have to get paid some how. (I have to look into Avvenu although I've already paid for one workstation on Logmein IT/Reach.) Otherwise, I wonder if non-beta code developers are getting paid by spyware or adware."

    Always. Not "sometimes." Not "usually." Always. No qualifiers. You're always suspicious about "free" services. If you're not suspicious in some way about Avvenu, then saying you're always suspicious of free services doesn't make logical sense, since it's currently a free service.

    "Otherwise, I wonder if non-beta code developers are getting paid by spyware or adware" refers to whom?

    We don't have to play games with semantics here, but the way you parsed your statements implied (to me) that you thought Avvenu was suspect. I don't know any other way to read it.

    I don't write any reviews for TC (or for the past twenty years for numerous other venues and magazines) without spending time on the phone with a company's execs, just as I did with Avvenu's. I do a lot of research before I pound out a review. I specifically asked them how they're making money off a free service with no ads embedded in it and the answer, as I said earlier, is through VCs. Once they morph into a tiered service with free and paid levels, and they're self-sustaining, then the VCs get a return on their invetment. If they don't make enough money to be self-sustaining and turn a profit, then they either go away or get assimilated by someone else.

    Palm itself started with VC money. Listen to Colligan's or Hawkins' interviews where one of them talks about how they had enough influx of VC money to develop the Pilot but were down to their last million and had to go begging and scraping for more investors in order to bring the product to market. Almost all of the current industry behemoths from Apple to Micro$oft to eBay started out as tiny garage operations, working on a shoestring budget, begging for money. Some succeed. Some fail.

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  13. Cartman's Avatar
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    #13  
    I think that you took his post too literally... I didn't take away from it that he was implying anything at all but perhaps I just wasn't paying much attention

    I can understand wanting to keep people from thinking that Avvenu has any spyware in it and how you took Bery's comments as him seeming to imply that it did but I honestly donít think that was his intention. He seemed to be just throwing out his perspective in general on free services and I would hate to see fear of how people may interpret comments make someone hesitate to post...

    Accusing someone of accusing something of doing anything as despicable as spyware is a little harsh especially when it wasnít clear that that was his intention...but I can see why you would want to make sure no one took away that it possibly had spyware or addware....perhaps a non accusational approach would of been better....now you have someone on the defensive and this thread is venturing into being off topic
  14. #14  
    He said he is always SUSPICIOUS, not that there is ALWAYS SPYWARE WITH A FREE PRODUCT. He has every right to be suspicious, his perogative.
  15. #15  
    I believe that Beryl is a Gal, not a guy.....
  16. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    I think that you took his post too literally... I didn't take away from it that he was implying anything at all but perhaps I just wasn't paying much attention
    Yeah, well, I'm a long-time writer as well as an Editor of other writers, so yes, I tend to be very literal, and maybe can be accused of over-explaining things at times, but I think it's usually better to give a reader more information than less. To answer their questions before they have to ask them. To be unambiguous. Ambiguity leads to misinterpretation and that usually leads to arguments, and then things go off-topic ("thread rot") and eventually someone mentions Hitler, and that's that.

    Everything you see on TC's front page - all the reviews and articles, pass through me before they're published. As a writer who has to Edit his own stuff, I often pass my reviews and articles through a couple of my other writers because when you write for a vast audience (and TC's front page reviews and articles get read by tens of thousands of people).. you have to be as accurate as you can be.

    Writing is like doing an oil painting, except you're painting a story with words instead of an image with pigments. Is a painting or a review or an article or a novel ever really truly finished? At some point you have to stand back from it and say okay, it's done, that's it. On to the next canvas. But one thing I always strive for is readability and technical accuracy, neither talking over the heads of the readers or talking down to them. One has to strike a balance because this stuff is being read by everyone from total newbies to Ubergeeks. So I take a conversational tone, like talking to a friend, when I review something or write an opinion piece, the same way I write my eBay auction descriptions and make their pictures. I can't literally put a product into someone's hands, so I have to do it with words, and be as unambiguous and clear and accurate as possible.

    I don't make any claims to be a Hemingway or a Faulkner or an Ebert or a Bradbury. But I ask friends to be brutally honest with me when they read my stuff and tell me if something doesn't make sense, and that's how one improves one's craft. On the other hand, you can just throw something out there and say "Let them figure it out." That's not my approach, but it's worked for a lot of very famous writers and artists.

    But I digress..

    Harv
    Last edited by hrlaser; 04/08/2006 at 06:43 PM.
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlepat
    He said he is always SUSPICIOUS, not that there is ALWAYS SPYWARE WITH A FREE PRODUCT. He has every right to be suspicious, his perogative.
    Exactly. I meant what I said - I am always suspicious. I have, am currently, and will likely in the future use free offerings. However, I will continue to be suspicious. IMO, everyone should be.

    Back to Avvenu. I stated that I would be looking into using it. If I thought it had adware or spyware, I wouldn't. What intelligent person would?

    Enough of Avvenu and back on topic. People don't always offer products for the purpose of making $$$. Back in "the day", I submitted freeware just for the heck of it. Knowing that others liked my brainchild was its own reward. That is how I got paid.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    A lot of compaines make money when they are sold
    I agree. I think they are looking at the future. They are free now until they get a big following, then they can charge a fee or sell out.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. Cartman's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser
    ... and eventually someone mentions Hitler, and that's that.
    Thats one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time! LOL!
  20. hrlaser's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Thats one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time! LOL!
    May be funny, but go read unmoderated Usenet newsfroups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsfroup).. for a few years and you'll find it's a classic pattern. (I've only been reading Usenet for about twenty years, so I'm kind of new at it)..

    Someone new to that hobby or field of interest discovers the froup, innocently makes a statement, or asks a legitimate question. They get right answers ($5.00 each), wrong answers ($1.00 each) or dumb looks (free).. or they're accused of being or told "that question's been asked 2304982039481 times", someone references Snopes.com, (Snopes is famous for de-bunking urban legends..) .. or here's a list of threads archived on Google you *****, how dare you ask a question that's already been answered!(sound familiar?), then the insults and counter-insults start flying, someone cross-posts to other newsfroups bringing in people who cross-post even more, the subject totally goes off-topic, morphs into the classic thread rot, flame wars, the original question is long-forgotten, you end up with people slinging insults at each other, then the threats of "I'm reporting you to your ISP for violating the charter" start flying, First Amendment rights are mentioned, someone else calls him Hitler, and what started out as a benign question escalates into a killfile fest. The regulars (generally people with a lot of knowledge in that field who can usually be counted on for factual information presented in a rational way).. get fed up, go away for a while, other regulars beg them to come back, it turns into total mayhem, like one of those time-lapse films of mold growing on a piece of fruit they used to show in schools, and for all I know, still do.. and when the dust settles, after a few weeks, the cross-posters who feed off attention and open Hotmail and Yahoo and Gmail throwaway accounts so they can hide behind aliases and post answers to themseles get ignored, lose interest and go away, things eventually get back to normal, the regulars trickle back, life seems normal and pleasant, until it happens again.

    Harv
    (correct answers: $5.00. Wrong answers: $1.00. Dumb looks: free)..
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
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