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  1.    #1  
    "The Treo 700w is using XIP (exexute in place) which reduces the memory footprint of the operating system"

    presumably allowing it to load the OS on a much smaller amoutn of memory than the 6700 and others.
  2. #2  
    They can spin it however they want, but they cheapened out on the memory, just like on the 650.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    "The Treo 700w is using XIP (exexute in place) which reduces the memory footprint of the operating system"
    That's truly laughable - and an incorrect guess on their part.
  4. Cartman's Avatar
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    #4  
    Well, I do know the the WM engineers at MS were very surprised that 32MB's was not enough for application memory in the wild since in the lab they found it to be fine...they were also preaching about how more memory reduces battery time.

    This was before devices that had WM5 were actually shipping....looks like they didn't bother to inform Palm after they found out that device manufactures were having issues.... or maybe it was Palm that informed them of the issue... i just know that someone said "hey, you said 32MB's would be fine but its not!"

    I'm guessing Palm was told early on that 32MB would be more than enough by MS and went with it.... but someone dropped the ball or didn't step up in the device testing process to say... hey... this thing would really benefit from more memory.

    I'm guessing they didn't have the balls to go to Palm management and back-up their findings...since it may of been late in the development of the 700w..and they were getting pressure from management to get it out...

    ..if management knew of the issue but decided to go ahead then I blame Palm for making a bad decision on this one.

    I was disappointed in the memory and speed initially but after using it the speed is fine....the memory does rear its ugly head every now and then but its not a show stopper... maybe that's what management thought too...

    I would think it would cost more in support and customer satisfaction than production costs to only give it 32MB instead of 64MBs so that leads me to think it was MS that miss informed Palm of the requirement.....or it may just be me giving Palm the benefit of the doubt since I am a new customer of theirs but have worked with MS for a long time and have some inside knowledge of how things sometimes work out...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Well, I do know the the WM engineers at MS were very surprised that 32MB's was not enough for application memory in the wild since in the lab they found it to be fine...they were also preaching about how more memory reduces battery time.

    This was before devices that had WM5 were actually shipping....looks like they didn't bother to inform Palm after they found out that device manufactures were having issues.... or maybe it was Palm that informed them of the issue... i just know that someone said "hey, you said 32MB's would be fine but its not!"

    I'm guessing Palm was told early on that 32MB would be more than enough by MS and went with it.... but someone dropped the ball or didn't step up in the device testing process to say... hey... this thing would really benefit from more memory.

    I'm guessing they didn't have the balls to go to Palm management and back-up their findings...since it may of been late in the development of the 700w..and they were getting pressure from management to get it out...

    ..if management knew of the issue but decided to go ahead then I blame Palm for making a bad decision on this one.

    I was disappointed in the memory and speed initially but after using it the speed is fine....the memory does rear its ugly head every now and then but its not a show stopper... maybe that's what management thought too...

    I would think it would cost more in support and customer satisfaction than production costs to only give it 32MB instead of 64MBs so that leads me to think it was MS that miss informed Palm of the requirement.....or it may just be me giving Palm the benefit of the doubt since I am a new customer of theirs but have worked with MS for a long time and have some inside knowledge of how things sometimes work out...




    Yah it was Microsoft's fault and not Palms


    Thats why every other WM5 smart phone has much more memory than the 700W. Palm did it to be cheap bastards, plain and simple. They knew they could get away with it and did it. Its the same reason they are still squeezing life out of their long outdated OS (700P).
  6. #6  
    That entire line of reasoning has a rank aroma from my vantage point. Perhaps because Palm, M$, and VZW are all swimming in the same septic tank.
  7. dimitri's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by VZWuser
    That entire line of reasoning has a rank aroma from my vantage point. Perhaps because Palm, M$, and VZW are all swimming in the same septic tank.
    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
  8. #8  
    Only 32MB RAM for $619, the actual price of the 700w. And all other WM5 phones, even those that are $400-$550 full price, have 64. How come Palm seems to be the only one who missed the boat?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. Cartman's Avatar
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    #9  
    Yup.. they are the only ones with 32MB's of memory!

    This is their first time doing a WM device so I guess they didnt have the experiance to make the right choice when it came to this one?
  10. dimitri's Avatar
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    #10  
    So then they need to make an upgrade available or something.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Well, I do know the the WM engineers at MS were very surprised that 32MB's was not enough for application memory in the wild since in the lab they found it to be fine...they were also preaching about how more memory reduces battery time.

    This was before devices that had WM5 were actually shipping....looks like they didn't bother to inform Palm after they found out that device manufactures were having issues.... or maybe it was Palm that informed them of the issue... i just know that someone said "hey, you said 32MB's would be fine but its not!"

    I'm guessing Palm was told early on that 32MB would be more than enough by MS and went with it.... but someone dropped the ball or didn't step up in the device testing process to say... hey... this thing would really benefit from more memory.

    I'm guessing they didn't have the balls to go to Palm management and back-up their findings...since it may of been late in the development of the 700w..and they were getting pressure from management to get it out...

    ..if management knew of the issue but decided to go ahead then I blame Palm for making a bad decision on this one.

    I was disappointed in the memory and speed initially but after using it the speed is fine....the memory does rear its ugly head every now and then but its not a show stopper... maybe that's what management thought too...

    I would think it would cost more in support and customer satisfaction than production costs to only give it 32MB instead of 64MBs so that leads me to think it was MS that miss informed Palm of the requirement.....or it may just be me giving Palm the benefit of the doubt since I am a new customer of theirs but have worked with MS for a long time and have some inside knowledge of how things sometimes work out...
    You know I am really curious to know if the guys that tested it at MS, tested it with the shipping rom. From what I have read on the the Windows Mobile team blog, MS gives the OS to the carrier and the carrier adds in their applications on top of the OS. In this case, I am guessing that MS gave the OS to Palm, Palm added in all of their tweaks/software then Palm gave the phone to Verizon who added their software/tweaks etc...

    I would be very curious to know what the footprint of the OS is prior to Palm and Verizon got their hands on it and how much it increased in size by the time they shipped it!
  12.    #12  
    the last thing these bozos from palm told me was that there was an update coming in 1H that adds MSFP and helps with memory issues.

    this was on the vzw palm concall today
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaweil
    You know I am really curious to know if the guys that tested it at MS, tested it with the shipping rom. From what I have read on the the Windows Mobile team blog, MS gives the OS to the carrier and the carrier adds in their applications on top of the OS. In this case, I am guessing that MS gave the OS to Palm, Palm added in all of their tweaks/software then Palm gave the phone to Verizon who added their software/tweaks etc...

    I would be very curious to know what the footprint of the OS is prior to Palm and Verizon got their hands on it and how much it increased in size by the time they shipped it!

    Yes, 32MB RAM only works out of the box with nothing added. Once you add Voice Command and whatever else extra they put on, that's what ate up the RAM. Then people wanted to add their own software, which Palm should have known people would do, and 32MB just isn't enough. I have a 32MB RAM device that I have to keep almost clean of outside software. I have to use the expansion card. I often run down to 8 or 9MB RAM with 4 apps open.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #14  
    i only have AS open right now, and am runing at 8.29MB free....voice command not active...and only about an hour after a soft reset...

    Running Programs: <empty>

    Main Memory...

    Program
    Total: 25.45 MB
    In Use: 16.90 MB
    Free: 8.55 MB

    There's about a 5 second delay when someone calls....the screen turns on, the phone icon comes up, then eventually it gets around to displaying the caller ID
    Last edited by kevinmg; 04/06/2006 at 08:33 PM.
  15. #15  
    YIKES!! I thought at least 3 programs had to be open to suck up juice down to 8.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    "The Treo 700w is using XIP (exexute in place) which reduces the memory footprint of the operating system"

    presumably allowing it to load the OS on a much smaller amoutn of memory than the 6700 and others.
    Actually you are incorrect. "Execute in Place" means that you continue to execute while standing still, e.g. "running in place." Here is the explanation:

    Anals of Palm Technology

    Tungsten E: Released: 2003 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 600: Released: 2004 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 650: Released: 2005 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 700w: Released: 2006 -- RAM: 32 MB

    ** The Tungsten C, released in 2003, had 64 MB of RAM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    Well, I do know the the WM engineers at MS were very surprised that 32MB's was not enough for application memory in the wild since in the lab they found it to be fine...they were also preaching about how more memory reduces battery time.
    That article was about basic WM5.0 devices, not WM5.0 PPC phones. The phones carry a lot more overhead than the basic devices.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoshmeo
    Actually you are incorrect. "Execute in Place" means that you continue to execute while standing still, e.g. "running in place." Here is the explanation:

    Anals of Palm Technology

    Tungsten E: Released: 2003 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 600: Released: 2004 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 650: Released: 2005 -- RAM: 32 MB
    Treo 700w: Released: 2006 -- RAM: 32 MB

    ** The Tungsten C, released in 2003, had 64 MB of RAM.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execute_in_place

    Execute in place means the entire code of the OS and/or application is NOT first copied into RAM and then executed. The processor fetches the code, instruction by instruction, out of ROM, executing it "in place". Variable data, including the stack, is kept in RAM. XP, and other fat OS's do not use XIP becasue RAM is so cheap and hard disks are slow. The OS and all apps are copied from the hard disk into RAM and then executed.

    Now, all that being said, I have no idea if the 700W uses XIP. Still, I think it is very small $$ and very little extra microamps (perhaps the same) to design in 64MB. Not one person on this site has complained about battery life. I would have paid $5 more to have the extra 32MB, which is probably the cost.

    It was intentional, likely by VZ to make it 32MB. After all, they don't want you using the 700 for anything that they don't gain revenue from.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by reverged
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execute_in_place

    Execute in place means the entire code of the OS and/or application is NOT first copied into RAM and then executed. The processor fetches the code, instruction by instruction, out of ROM, executing it "in place". Variable data, including the stack, is kept in RAM. XP, and other fat OS's do not use XIP becasue RAM is so cheap and hard disks are slow. The OS and all apps are copied from the hard disk into RAM and then executed.

    Now, all that being said, I have no idea if the 700W uses XIP. Still, I think it is very small $$ and very little extra microamps (perhaps the same) to design in 64MB. Not one person on this site has complained about battery life. I would have paid $5 more to have the extra 32MB, which is probably the cost.

    It was intentional, likely by VZ to make it 32MB. After all, they don't want you using the 700 for anything that they don't gain revenue from.
    I was joking... unfortunately about everything except for the fact that Palm made PDAs with MORE RAM in 2003 than in 2006. I don't think I've ever seen that in the history of modern computing.

    The 32MB RAM limitation was very likely Palm's decision, who engineer their crappy new old technology Treos. Remember that Palm sells the same garbage to other operators so it isn't Verizon specific, as evil as their executives may be. In addition, all the other phones have 64MB of RAM. Moreso, VZW would rather the Treos work instead of dealing with the fiasco they have to deal with now, like the 700w call waiting but which they'll have to give credit to every caller who complains being charged minutes because the phone doesn't hang up properly.
  20. #20  
    Palm simply likes to create marginal updates and reuse the same old tried and true parts. While the Treo 700w does work as designed by Palm it is NOT meeting with user expectations. If and when they do offer a next gen WM Treo it must have WiFi, more RAM and a better processor that can be turned up and down as we decide not as Palm decides.
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