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  1. #21  
    Tell that 'execute in place' argument to the user who is trying to run NetFront and FlexMail instead of crappy PIE and Messaging.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  2. #22  
    I'm reading 32 MB program memory on the 700. but I only have 25.45 MB total available. what's up?
  3. #23  
    The OS and whatever other programs came with the 700w are taking up RAM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    The OS and whatever other programs came with the 700w are taking up RAM.
    One question, if the OS and other appsa are taking up RAM dropping the RAM from 32MB down to 25.45MB then why do we only get 15MB to actuallly use. It seems to me that something other than the OS is eating up 17MB of RAM so much for EIP.
  5. #25  
    And take a look at the "free" RAM. Brand new Treo, just hard reset, yields 14.8 MB of RAM, the most you'll ever have. Now I have ActiveSync on and somehow the RAM has dropped to 13.4 and isn't going back up. Add in just a few applications to fix what Microsoft didn't do right for years (see sbp or SBSH software) and you're down to under 10...
  6. #26  
    Exactly so what is taking up all of the RAM. It again points out where Palm failed the Treo users. Just because they think 32MB is acceptable does not mean it is in the real world. 32MB would be fine if we actually had closer to 25MB or more at our disposal.
  7. #27  
    It does not clear memory out when you exit a program. You can fix this with the "nevredorkmemory" registry hack (there's another thread floating around here).
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by shneor
    It does not clear memory out when you exit a program. You can fix this with the "nevredorkmemory" registry hack (there's another thread floating around here).
    This doesn't fix the RAM problem, only possibly improves it at times. I have it installed and still see leaks. 12 or so MB at reset, at times I have 6-8 MB with nothing open.
  9. Cartman's Avatar
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    #29  
    LOL... there is a blog entry from a Microsoft WM engineer that BUSTS the neverdorkmemory myth!

    NeverDorkMemory is only for 2k3 devices, basicly it's "do_not_move_the_storage_ram_slider_automaticaly".

    Spread the word...
  10. Cartman's Avatar
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    #30  
    Mike Calligaro of the popular Windows Mobile Team Blog:

    "I'm a bit embarrassed that we actually have a registry key with the word 'Dork' in it. I don't know what that developer was thinking. That key should have no effect on WM5. It was used on pre-WM5 PocketPCs that had a memory slider. The memory slider allowed you to determine how much memory was used as RAM and how much was used as Storage. However, as storage and RAM were consumed, the OS used to adjust the slider on its own (it basically tried to keep the amount of free RAM equal to the amount of free storage). In the vernacular of some dev who thought he was being clever, this was called 'Dorking' the memory. NeverDorkMemory disabled that automatic adjustment to the memory slider. It was generally believed that automatically adjusting the slider was the right thing to do, so we didn't make the key something configurable through the UI. Persistent storage means that we don't spend RAM on storage anymore, so there's no longer a need for the slider. With the slider gone, NeverDorkMemory shouldn't have any effect. I've had a few people ask where the slider went, so I was planning to write an entry explaining why it's gone..."
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppcmd
    Exactly so what is taking up all of the RAM. It again points out where Palm failed the Treo users. Just because they think 32MB is acceptable does not mean it is in the real world. 32MB would be fine if we actually had closer to 25MB or more at our disposal.

    Your beef is with MSFT also. I have a similar configuration on my 32MB RAM device, it's an HP. 32 RAM, but only 24 is available, and 13 is in use, even when nothing is running. Look like programs eat up RAM even when not running. This leaves me with 11. MSFT shouldn't even allow an option to put 32 on a device.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. Cartman's Avatar
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    #32  
    What does the FT in MSFT stand for?

    I think MS stands for Microsoft...

    Is that their stock symbol?
  13. #33  
    I think it is the stock abbreviation. I have a bad habit of using it instead of MS.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #34  
    the mystery continues....
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Your beef is with MSFT also. I have a similar configuration on my 32MB RAM device, it's an HP. 32 RAM, but only 24 is available, and 13 is in use, even when nothing is running. Look like programs eat up RAM even when not running. This leaves me with 11. MSFT shouldn't even allow an option to put 32 on a device.
    Microsoft didn't put in an option of having 32MB of RAM on the device. I remember seeing a post pointing to an MS page which specically states that 64MB of RAM is recommended for the Windows Mobile OS. Palm did this in order to increase their profit margin by $4 per unit instead of shipping it with the appropriate amount of RAM. Sure the Treo 700w "works" but if you start using it as a PDA you begin to realize it doesn't work as a PDA well for very good reason. Die Palm Die.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by gex
    What does the FT in MSFT stand for?

    I think MS stands for Microsoft...

    Is that their stock symbol?
    It is the stock symbol, I imagine MSFT came from MicroSoFT
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoshmeo
    Microsoft didn't put in an option of having 32MB of RAM on the device. I remember seeing a post pointing to an MS page which specically states that 64MB of RAM is recommended for the Windows Mobile OS.
    Not true. Check out this Windows Mobile Team Blog entry from Last November (2005):
    Quote Originally Posted by Windows Mobile Team
    WM5 is a massive upgrade, with a new OS, new apps, and a ton of new features. We were very worried about bloat, and did a number of things to combat it. We funded a group whose sole job was to analyze performance (including RAM usage) and keep it under control. Those folks did a bunch of work to reduce RAM usage. We also purposely limited the amount of RAM available on the devices our developers used. Almost all of our devices only had 32M of RAM, and the one device that had more, we artificially limited to only use 32M. We didn't want anyone to get lazy.
    32Mb was the recommended. Luckily, most manufacturers had enought foresight to know better and weren't sublime cheapskates when they built their devices. Palm, it wuold appear, looked at this minimum figure and saw a way to make a few more bucks off the consumer.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Your beef is with MSFT also. I have a similar configuration on my 32MB RAM device, it's an HP. 32 RAM, but only 24 is available, and 13 is in use, even when nothing is running. Look like programs eat up RAM even when not running. This leaves me with 11. MSFT shouldn't even allow an option to put 32 on a device.
    I believe you are incorrect with this statement. The way I understand it, MSFT Created the OS and set the minimum specs, in this case 32 MB is the minimum. It is then up to the device manufacturers to develop and create the devices. I am sure MS has some input, but it is ultimately the device manufacturers call as to the fianl specs of the device.

    The 2nd thing that I think people forget is, what is added to the ROM AFTER it is handed off to the device manufacturer. Keep in mind, when MS tests the OS it is done as a base OS. I remember when the SMT5600 WM5 rom was leaked, it was a base OS, no camera app, no added extras. After MS hands the OS off, the device manufacturer adds in software/tweaks that are specific to the device, then the DM hands the device off to the Carrier who adds in their custom items. So the 700w looks like this...

    MS > Palm, Palm adds customizations software etc.. > Verizon, Verizon adds customizations, software etc..

    I would hazard a guess that the OS size almost doubles by the time we get the phone. Im not saying its right, I am just saying that is how I understand the process...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    32Mb was the recommended.
    I am not sure I would say it is the recommended, but it is the minimum amount of RAM it could use. It is like the official specs of WinXP says it can run on only 64 MB of memory. If a customer does, they are certainly going to run into issues as they start to use it. Heck even with only 128 MB of memory can cause performance issues with WinXP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    Luckily, most manufacturers had enought foresight to know better and weren't sublime cheapskates when they built their devices. Palm, it wuold appear, looked at this minimum figure and saw a way to make a few more bucks off the consumer.
    I think I fully agree with this.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I am not sure I would say it is the recommended, but it is the minimum amount of RAM it could use.
    Point taken - I would hope they never entertained anything less than 32 mb!
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