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  1. mmm208's Avatar
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       #1  
    Just visited my local Verizon Store and played around with the new Treo 700w for 30 minutes. I must say that this phone is a major step back from the 650 in the usability area. Menus and simple every day navigation are too complex for one handed operation thats needed in day to day operation. Every thing simple on the 650 is turned into a complex menu or sub menu task on the 700w. Speakerphone is simple tap on the screen for the 650 and a two click menu on the 700w. conference calling is an even bigger pain in the neck requiring menu taps as well. adding pics to contacts can be frustrating at best. Camera is sluggish and often freezes up. Videos sometimes wont even register. Forget threaded SMS like on the 650. Many people consider the 650's best feature. I use it 24 hours a day to keep in touck with biz partners and freinds. After messing around for 10 minutes i still couldnt figure out how even send an sms. But i do know that wm5 does not have threaded sms for a fact. I dont like it! I consider palm with windows total crap and one of the biggest mistakes palm has ever made. By them developing this phone it definitly pushed back the new treo with palm. They wasted an entire year on this phone. Its really unusable and has no appeal to me at all. Another downside is that it cannot sync with palm desktop<one of may favorite and most important contact databases i own.
    i want my treo 700p already and im losing patience. For now the biggest competitor to treo 650 is Blackberry 8700. The 8700 has better call quality, better speakerphone, better email handling,and better browser than treo. Its also better keyborad and easier to dial on while driving.The downsides are no threaded sms, no camera or video, and no extrenal mem card.
  2. #2  
    I had alot of the same complaints that you had when I first got my treo 700 over a month ago, but now that I have been using it for a month alot of things have changed. I still don't like that there is no threaded sms, however I do love the fact that I can Listen to satellite radio on my treo, get email, play texas holdem and text message all at the same time because of multi-tasking. I like the sound quality of calls, imo it is alot clearer then the 650 and reception is better. I also like that it is alot like my windows desktop. So I guess it just all depends what is more important to you and how you will use the device. I also find one handedness very good now that I am used to the differences. I haven't used my stylus in about 3 weeks fwiw.
  3. #3  
    I'm sorry to say, your complaint is subjective for the most part to a user who is new to Windows Pocket PC software. I assure you, it is very easy for one handed use once you are familier with it and experienced as you are with POS.

    The no threaded SMS is something PPC has never had, you are used to a feature which doesn't exist there, and might never. Granted, it's a nice feature that anyone who's had it will miss.

    no camera and video? Are you smoking crack? It's got better ones than the 650, but they aren't meant to compete with a real digital camera. Some people just want the impossible.

    If the device is something that doesn't hold up for you, say so to other 650 users. There is no reason to demonstrate your lack of skill with the device to people who do like it.
  4. #4  
    way to go shadowmite!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  5. #5  
    I'm never going back to Palm. Yeah Windows Mobile!
  6. #6  
    anyone who makes a decision based upon 30 minutes in a retail store and thiks they have tied the abundant features of something like a Treo has no business using anything like a Treo. I still find myself learning new things about WM5 after months of use and the shortcuts are amazingly intuitive after a while. often I find myself in awe of the things I missed earlier. a to the SMS threading you mentioned it is not an issue with me since I do not use SMS threading but there are at least a few apps out there now which are reported to have this issue covered but I can not vouch for them as they don't matter to me.

    so what is your real purpose here? a disgruntled POS app developer who is scared of the future? a stock trader who is trying to push the price of Palm down? I get leary of posts from someone who had so few posts and present unrealistic expectations. or do you have another log in you normally use?
  7. nuflat's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm sorry to say, your complaint is subjective for the most part to a user who is new to Windows Pocket PC software. I assure you, it is very easy for one handed use once you are familier with it and experienced as you are with POS.

    The no threaded SMS is something PPC has never had, you are used to a feature which doesn't exist there, and might never. Granted, it's a nice feature that anyone who's had it will miss.

    no camera and video? Are you smoking crack? It's got better ones than the 650, but they aren't meant to compete with a real digital camera. Some people just want the impossible.

    If the device is something that doesn't hold up for you, say so to other 650 users. There is no reason to demonstrate your lack of skill with the device to people who do like it.

    I agree whole heartedly! Off with their heads!
  8. COBronco's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm sorry to say, your complaint is subjective for the most part to a user who is new to Windows Pocket PC software. I assure you, it is very easy for one handed use once you are familier with it and experienced as you are with POS.

    The no threaded SMS is something PPC has never had, you are used to a feature which doesn't exist there, and might never. Granted, it's a nice feature that anyone who's had it will miss.

    no camera and video? Are you smoking crack? It's got better ones than the 650, but they aren't meant to compete with a real digital camera. Some people just want the impossible.

    If the device is something that doesn't hold up for you, say so to other 650 users. There is no reason to demonstrate your lack of skill with the device to people who do like it.

    What he said! Being that I have used PPC devices for years, and never a palm device, this thing was very very easy to use. Easier to use than most dedicated PDAs, as its had some things put on it for one handed use. I have not had a single instance where I have had to use a screen tap on software that came with the phone....
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mmm208
    After messing around for 10 minutes i still couldnt figure out how even send an sms.
    Now that is just pitiful! If you have a contact defined, you just start keying a name, when the desired number appears, you hold down the center button and select an option to text or email. It doesn't get any simpler or more one-handed than that!

    Not being able to figure out that in 10 minutes makes no sense to come here and complain about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by COBronco
    What he said! Being that I have used PPC devices for years, and never a palm device, this thing was very very easy to use. Easier to use than most dedicated PDAs, as its had some things put on it for one handed use. I have not had a single instance where I have had to use a screen tap on software that came with the phone....
    In all fairness, if you've never had a Palm device, you don't really understand why Palm users don't see this devices as not being as easy to use as the Treo 650.

    I've used both for quite some time and understand both sides.

    ITA that the Treo 700w is far more intuitive and easy to use than other PPC devices because of the nice things Palm and MS added to make it so. They could have done better. They should have handed the device to a Palm Treo user for a month with NO 3rd party software and tell them to record when they have to pick up a stylus. They then should have taken the list and modify the built-in apps. We shouldn't need a stylus to change folders in an email account, for example.

    This is a terrific device even with its flaws.
  10. COBronco's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    Now that is just pitiful! If you have a contact defined, you just start keying a name, when the desired number appears, you hold down the center button and select an option to text or email. It doesn't get any simpler or more one-handed than that!

    Not being able to figure out that in 10 minutes makes no sense to come here and complain about it.


    In all fairness, if you've never had a Palm device, you don't really understand why Palm users don't see this devices as not being as easy to use as the Treo 650.

    I've used both for quite some time and understand both sides.

    ITA that the Treo 700w is far more intuitive and easy to use than other PPC devices because of the nice things Palm and MS added to make it so. They could have done better. They should have handed the device to a Palm Treo user for a month with NO 3rd party software and tell them to record when they have to pick up a stylus. They then should have taken the list and modify the built-in apps. We shouldn't need a stylus to change folders in an email account, for example.

    This is a terrific device even with its flaws.
    I agree it could be better, but I think you missed the point I was making, or rather didnt make :-). The fact that he said he had to use screen taps, and everything was a menu or sub menu item is simply not true. This is another example of someone coming into a PPC/WM forum and bashing something they dont understand. Even though I dont use the Palm OS, I would never go into the 650 section or to any palm forum and bash it and hail the 700 as the best thing to ever come down the pipe. Both are easy to use if you take a couple minutes to figure them out. These posts seem to be started by loyal Palm users who have had their feelings hurt by Palm teaming up with big bad Microsoft. They serve no constructive purpose whatsoever. But, I am guilty of adding fuel by responding to this one....

    I guess I cant say ive never used a Palm device, just never owned one. I did check out a 650 while waiting on the 700 to become available and would have bought it if it suited my needs. To each their own, but for these people to compare any ppc/WM device to a Palm device, no matter what the box looks like, is comparing apples to oranges...
  11. #11  
    just to keep this posters ideas in perspective, he's calling 3g a small step forward and the "number of taps" to send an sms a BIG step backward' lol

    I can understand, it must be killing some palm enthusiasts that the only way to currently get 3g is to move to windows
  12. alsdweoir's Avatar
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    #12  
    Probably a dumb question - but, what is threaded SMS?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by alsdweoir
    Probably a dumb question - but, what is threaded SMS?
    Apple & oranges for sure. My brother just got the 650 and wanted to know how to bring up the onscreen keyboard. It's a simple tap on wm5 but took me a minute to find b/c I'd never used POS. Hmmmm....maybe I should start a thread...
  14. #14  
    I got an Audiovox SMT5600 to play around with the WM system. Lack of SMS threading is a big one for me as I'm using text messages with multiple family members throughout the day. There are more sub-menus to work through for most tasks, but it really is all about what you're used to. Personally, I prefer the way the Palm OS works. It's more simple. If you want to sync with an exchange server and MS Outlook, then you need WM. The 700w is not for me, but I can see that it's made for a specific target audience, and the reviews so far are positive.
  15. #15  
    i was going to respond to the original poster's message in a detailed manner. after re-reading his post i decided that it simply wasn't worth my time. hec, this response is already a waste of time!
  16. #16  
    ditto. The best word to describe this thread is "Paradigm".
  17. #17  
    Pos has two meanings, palm operating system and piece of S#@%. I have been a treo supporter for a while and had both 600 and 650. The 700 is the first one that doesnt lock up, need to restart, restart itself, and that I can hear the other person without having to use a third party program to boost the speaker level. Not to mention that the radio gets reception comperable to other phones, unlike my palm treos. I tried and tried replacing the others, even switching carriers, and returing "defective" units to get the same issues over and over. The 700 works the best period. POS looks and feels like and old OS. Even the onscreen buttons look like you drew them with a pencil, rather than like we are used to on modern OS's. The intital review in this post is like getting in a new mercedes after driving a yugo and saying it doesnt work well because the controls are in different places and it has more features. Especially after you spent a WHOLE 30 minutes playing with it. Wow thats a really comprehensive assesment.
  18. #18  
    For those of you who are accusing the original poster's comments of being due to lack of knowledge of the WM platform, can you please document how one activates the speakerphone and initiates a conference call in fewer steps than he required?

    I'm an experienced Palm OS and WM user. The fact of the matter is that for many commonly used actions, there are fewer steps required to do them on the Treo 650 than on the 700w.

    I played with the 700w yesterday for only about five minutes. One-handed usability was much better than with the PPC-6700 I had for two weeks, but there was still a lot of usability inefficiencies compared to the 650. And no amount of "getting to know WM" is going to change that, though some hacks and 3rd party apps might eliminate or at least improve them.

    I also think there's too much wasted screen real estate. This has always been a problem with PPC/WM, and it's sad that they've made it even worse with WM5 by adding the dual soft buttons. That area of the screen could have been better used by a toolbar along the lines of what we have with Blazer on the Palm OS Treo 650. Push the spacebar to bring focus to/from it and use the D-Pad to navigate between more than two icons for frequently needed functions. And the two hard buttons below that soft button area would have been better used with one of them dedicated to an application menu. As it stands, you'll find that most applications are dedicating one of those two soft buttons to "Menu" all of the time. If you're going to dedicate a virtual button to the *SAME THING* all of the time, guess what? It shouldn't be a virtual button. It should be given its own hard button.

    Look. The Palm OS may very well be extinct a year from now. And WM is going to be around for a long while. So why do people feel threatened when someone raises valid criticisms. If we don't criticize it publicly, they'll never make it better.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    For those of you who are accusing the original poster's comments of being due to lack of knowledge of the WM platform, can you please document how one activates the speakerphone and initiates a conference call in fewer steps than he required?
    A speakerphone app would make life easier so that a press and hold could be established. In the meanwhile, it is a 2 button press to turn on the speaker key: Right SoftKey+Center Key (since the option is at the top) or Right SoftKey+S
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I also think there's too much wasted screen real estate. This has always been a problem with PPC/WM, and it's sad that they've made it even worse with WM5 by adding the dual soft buttons. That area of the screen could have been better used by a toolbar along the lines of what we have with Blazer on the Palm OS Treo 650. Push the spacebar to bring focus to/from it and use the D-Pad to navigate between more than two icons for frequently needed functions. And the two hard buttons below that soft button area would have been better used with one of them dedicated to an application menu. As it stands, you'll find that most applications are dedicating one of those two soft buttons to "Menu" all of the time. If you're going to dedicate a virtual button to the *SAME THING* all of the time, guess what? It shouldn't be a virtual button. It should be given its own hard button.
    Well stated! This is the best constructive criticism I've read in a LONG time. I blame Palm for letting this happen. WM devices never had this level of simplicity but Palm knew better.
  20. #20  
    Wow, Scott is right it takes an extra key and 1/100th of a second to get to the speakerphone...but no one I do business with would be subjected to the speakerphone since they are considered rude in the business world. I bet most of us use bluetooth anyway and I have never heard anyone say that Treo's bluetooth is better then the PPC6700.

    It is all subjective to the users needs and wants. For every benefit you find I can counter with something that WM5 does bette...EVDO, bluetooth, better office applications onboard to name just a few. There is no perfect device or platform just the best at the moment.
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